When and if you try dhea I used only 25mg micronized douglas laboratory and it doubled my dhea-s.
I tried it and I did not like. My dhea is in range on the lower side. I will only consider taking it if I go low.
And if I do go low, I then should have adrenal issues and taking dhea may just be a bandaid.
How did it affect you?
From what I rememberā¦ acneā¦ Eyes burning at times.
I just think it put a monkey wrench in my protocol. Maybe I could have waited and restabalized.
Have you tried lower DHEA dosages? I asked my doc for 10mg strength capsules so I could try anything from 10mg/day to 50mg/day.
Acne seems to be a very common side effect from DHEA. A guy I know stopped taking it because of that.
MY DHEA-S is slightly below the min of the range and Iāve been having brain fog for years that TRT hasnāt alleviated at all despite giving me other benefits, so Iām hoping DHEA will help.
I got tested for adrenal insufficiency and presumably (unless the endo couldnāt read the results correctly, which I wouldnāt put past any dr at this point) tested negative for it. But my cortisol and DHEA-S are both extremely low, so something is clearly going on.
Have you tried Pregnenolone?
Thatās a problem. This means your adrenals are insufficient. How long in trt. ?
They did the acth stimulation test?
I tried the preg too.
I feel fine on none of those. I will consider if I go low. I donāt think we need to keep all hormones in the upper range.
I read vit c 500mg 2x a day can help adrenals. But I would do a renal ultra sound I think that includes kidneys and adrenal glands
ACTH stimulation is the one I did where they take a baseline draw, then inject you with something to trigger a response and then draw blood 2 or 3 more times.
Iāve only been on TRT for 6 months. But my cortisol was bottom of the range already before starting TRT.
DHEA was 200 (canāt remember units) before TRT, then dropped to 90 on the last 2 tests I did (3 and 6 months after starting), on a range of around 100-400.
Pregnenolone is slightly below average but not disastrous.
TSH is around 2.5 which some docs say is subclinical hypothyroidism, but free T3 is almost 4 which is good, so my doc said thyroid might be slightly suboptimal but probably not whatās making me feel apathetic and crazy brain fog.
Iāll look into the renal ultrasound, thanks.
Just tested my Blood Pressure and it came back at 160/80.
Iāve always been around 115/75. Very lean, good diet.
I tested it because Iāve been getting slight headaches every day for a few weeks and thought about BP immediately since Iāve never had headaches in my entire life.
I tested my BP 3 months ago (3 months after starting TRT) and it was still 115/75 on daily injections.
I guess this makes choosing between going back to daily injections or trying DHEA first a lot easier.
Anyone know how long it takes to get permanent damage from elevated BP?
If you have not seen an endocrinologist you should. Bring your labs that show low cortisol and dhea.
Having high blood pressure can take a while to cause damage. Iāve had moderate hpb for years like 130s over close to 90 and it is believed it gave me cardiomyopathy which has since corrected with meds.
But if you got acute high blood pressure like you do at 160, thatās closer to being urgent. If it doesnāt come down, thatās a trip to the ER. Esp you got headaches from it which makes sense
My anti-aging doc just emailed me back saying 160/80 shouldnāt be enough to cause headaches; I donāt know much about BP but that sounds very high, do you think it could explain the headaches?
Iām starting to suspect covid also. I just got the PCR test for it as a walkthrough literally 5m ago just to make sure.
Iāve never had either high BP or headaches in my entire life and now I have both 24/7ā¦
If the covid test comes back negative Iāll test for antibodies and either way switch to daily injections come Monday.
Itās hard to believe though that Test could raise my BP from 115 to 160 while keeping my hematocrit at 46%.
Now that I think about it Iāve also gotten tired much faster in my workouts and 10 days ago actually got nauseous after an easy workout
Tool & A Perfect Circle = GOAT
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2 weeks as of today since switching to 22mg daily injections (154mg/week). I think my headaches are getting better and my BP is back to normal (115/75) at least.
Iāve delayed starting Preg/DHEA and HGH for now obviously. I want to make sure everything is ok before adding more stuff to my protocol. I have a stress test and echocardiogram planned and if everything comes back ok and the headaches subside on daily injections, Iāll take it from there.
Iāve been feeling very tired though, which could just be due to the change in protocol, so Iāll give it another 8 weeks for 10 weeks total before drawing any conclusions.
I remember doing a quick taper down at the beginning of my TRT where I was dropping 2mg/day from 168mg/week, every week to see where my sweet spot was. At the time I felt great when I got to 16mg/day and spent a week there. My libido and mental energy were completely off the charts. Of course this probably means nothing since my hormones were all over the place from swtiching dose every single week.
Still, I think that delay included thereās a chance my sweet spot is around 125mg/week (18mg/day), so after the next 8 weeks at 22mg/day Iām going to try 18mg/day for another 10 weeks and see how I feel there. Iād like to stay really high and perma-blast 180mg/week but I donāt think my body can take it long term.
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I can tell just by your posts you are a natural over thinker. I respect your thorough approach to TRT and health, however I believe if you are bouncing from testosterone dosing adjustments to thyroid to dhea/ pregnenolone to adrenals to blood pressure to Covid you are going to make yourself totally stressed out. I also battle chronic fatigue which I believe is from years of excessive stress, so if I could throw in my 2 cents consider looking into adaptogens to give your adrenals some type of help and see if thereās any improvement. That may assist your thyroid to a slight degree and that in itself would be a win for your situation. Itās a harmless concept and hopefully you feel optimal soon.
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Thanks for the post and sorry about the late reply. I want to finish testing my current protocol without adding any other variables but Iāll keep in mind the adaptogens.
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Iām at 5.5 weeks of my 22mg/day protocol and I definitely feel a lot better than I did on 80mg 2x/week.
My BP went back down to 115/75 and the 24/7 headaches I had for over a month straight are completely gone! Iām also starting to get up in the morning naturally feeling a decent amount of energy even on 6-7 hours of sleep, as opposed to feeling like shit even after 9-10 hours of sleep.
I feel in general that my sensory experiences are much stronger, more like they were when I was younger. I feel a lot less numb than I did in the last 5 years or so. I smile and laugh spontaneously a lot more, and even feel strong emotions of love and affection towards my GF that I havenāt felt in years.
I donāt feel at all like Iām turning into a bitch though, Iām more aggressive than ever sexually and regaining the self-confidence and assertiveness I had in my 20ās. My libido is much stronger (still not 20ās level but much better than in the last few years). My pumps in the gym are ridiculous, I feel and look a lot tighter and Iām measurably getting significantly stronger.
Overall Iām very happy with those changes obviously and I think the daily injections are making a huge difference. Iām going to give this protocol another 5-6 weeks, and then drop to 18mg/day for a 2.5 months test run. My guess is that my optimal zone in terms of mental benefits is probably lower than where I am now, and I want to take a look there.
Iām also more and more excited for HGH and itāll probably be the next thing i hop on once I find my sweet spot for Test. I have a lot of small nagging pains and injuries that limit how hard I can push myself in the gym and my sense of well-being in general, and i think a small dose of pharma GH might really help with that.
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Well fuck meā¦I just got my test results for the 22 mg/day protocol, and no wonder I was feeling great in the gym.
TT: 1680 ng/dL (250-1100)
FT: 370 pg/mL (35-155) (the weird Quest range, translates to 37 ng/dL)
E2: 70 pg/mL (<= 29) (ultra-sensitive)
Toward the end of the 8 weeks on that protocol, I was feeling tired all the time and started getting seriously depressed, borderline desperate. My back acne was getting really bad, I think high E2 just isnāt for me.
I dropped to 18 mg/day a week ago and already feel a little better, so weāll see, Iām gonna run this new protocol for at least 8 weeks. I guess the silver lining is that I now know I donāt need to try the 26 mg/day protocolā¦which is going to save me time.
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4.5 weeks so far on 18mg/day. I feel a LOT better. My libido is starting to really settle at a much higher level, Iāve been walking around all day with a semi for no reason, even without sex on the mind.
Iām not bloated anymore and my BP is back to normal. Headaches are almost completely gone. Itās very clear to me at this point that E2 was the problem. For me at least, high E2 just doesnāt work. Bloating, hypertension, headaches, depression/suicidal thoughtsā¦just not worth it.
Iām considering trying an AI as an experiment to get E2 between 20-30pg/mL and see how I feel. My guess is Iāll feel a lot better. Iām gonna get labs done in about a week and see where my levels are, but Iām thinking everything (including E2) will still be slightly above range.
Only negative to dropping my dose is that Iām not as strong in the gym, I can clearly feel the difference. Kind of sucks but ultimately TRT for me is about the mental benefits more than anything.
Iāve also been thinking about trying the compounded scrotal 20% Test cream as Iām realizing more and more the importance of DHT, not just Testosterone. So basically I want less E2 and more DHT and Iām gonna find a way to make it happen.
Overall though Iām happy because after 7-8 months of struggle I have a much better sense for where I personally need those hormones to be and where my sweet spot is, and Iām much closer to it now.
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Ok, Iāve started my low-dose AI experiment.
I have 0.125mg compounded Anastrozole tabs. Iām going to split those in 4 and take 0.03125mg/day. I figure Iām doing ED injections with Test C (half life of 6-7 days), so I might as well take the AI (half life of 48 hours) ED as well to reach the most stable E2 levels possible.
That adds up to slightly less than 0.25mg/week, which should be safe since my (ultra-sensitive) E2 is at 55pg/mL right now, so I probably wonāt crash it on that dose.
Iāll get E2 tested in 4 weeks and go from there.
Iāve put a lot of my own experiences and other information together that Iāve collected over the 12 months Iāve been on TRT, and Iām now 99.9% certain high E2 is whatās preventing me from experiencing all the benefits of TRT.
Iām convinced the extreme depression and crash I experienced after an amazing first 2 weeks on TRT happened because of high E2. It eventually subsided some but I think that by microdosing an AI and getting my E2 into its sweet spot thereās a good chance Iāll be able to recapture some of the energy and amazing mindset I felt during those first 2 weeks.
Weāll seeā¦
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You could probably bump this up 2 weeks. The AI acts quickly
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You mean get tested in only 2 weeks, right? Do you think itāll have reached peak concentration by then?
I guess they say 5 half lives to reach peak concentration, so that would be 10 days for Anastrozole.
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Yep. Like you said, 10 days roughly to reach max concentration, then another week maybe to let e2 catch up. So maybe 3 weeks to be totally safe
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