Switzerland Bans Minarets

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
81

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

I’m not too sure. A few years back it “was the US’s support of Musharraf that fueled terrorism in Pakistan”. Musharraf is gone, Islamists are in charge, and what happened? The terrorists became stronger, there’s more killings than ever before.

[/quote]

Actually, this reason with Musharraf was nonsense. Extremization of Pakistani politics (again the Saudis) was to blame.

Unfortunately, as far as removing Saudi funded schools is concerned I was talking in the past.

Iran could not fill that void due to Shia/Sunni differences and lack of limitless funds available to the Saudis, not to mention the non-Arabic baggage. They meddle in Iraq and Lebanon because of the strong Shia element in these countries. Bosnia was an exception as it was a “blank slate” in terms of islam after 130 years of non-muslim government.

Look no further that Iran’s relationship with their “muslim brethren” in Chechnya. Or lack of it, to be precise.

Saudi Arabia without the royal family would be worse than this?

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/653wwewi.asp

82

[quote]Gregus wrote:
Why are white people so afraid to say they want their culture left unmolested for their future and their kids?

Surely if an Arabic Muslim country got a huge injection of White Christians and they started building church after church for more to arrive and make it their home. They would be a little “itchy” with it and try to preserve their culture.

See Diversity is nothing more then the teaching of people to stomp out their own culture and replace it with a foreign one. Once they do that, they can consider themselves an Evolved society. Utter Bullshit.

I applaud theu actions. Arabs and Muslims have to be kept on a short leash else they will do their best to run over and take over your culture. It’s just how they are. They never integrate and become a melting pot. Always a salad bowl with Islam.

Has been like that for a few millenia now. [/quote]

Well said.

83

Great, now my Swiss ball and my Swiss army knife are going to be considered objects of anti islamic hate making me the target for bombings ans such…So just what will I do walk out planks on? With what can I clean out my bowl?

84

[quote]lixy wrote:
archiewhittaker wrote:
lixy wrote:
archiewhittaker wrote:

P.S: What do you do for a living to feel so threatened by immigrants? Do you sweep streets?[/quote]

I immigrated to Sweden, just like you. Then I took it one step further, and immigrated to the U.S.
I don’t feel threatened by immigrants, just medieval religions that, well, actually threatens everybody.

PS. Street-sweepers fear immigrants?

85

[quote]archiewhittaker wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:

A minaret is a building, nothing more, nothing less.

That is a masterful understatement.

What matters is:
HOW a building is used, and
WHAT goes on inside of it. You can’t compare that to a church, and you know it.

Try building a church in a Muslim country, it would be more than banned. It would be bombed.
[/quote]

There are, or at least where when i was there, chruches in Iraq.

86

Without the US army there, there would be none. The army leaves on August 10, 2010 according to Obama’s plan.
Just wait until the islamists get their hands on the unlucky christians/catholics/atheists/humanists/agnostics that think that they can help the Iraqis.

â??The bombers wanted to attack a symbol, the symbol of the Christian and Catholic presence in Mosul and in the whole Iraq. Fear is rising again and Christians are fleeing the countryâ??, said Father Emil Shimoun Nona, new-elected archbishop of Mosul."

www.agensir.it/pls/sir/V2_S2DOC_A.a_autentication?tema=Quot_english&oggetto=183996&rifi=guest&rifp=guest

The strategy of these groups â??is clear,â?? the archbishop continued. â??As soon as the situation becomes calm and it appears there is a chance Christians can return to their homes in their cities, the terror and violence reappear with greater threats.â??

â??This is the not the first time extremist groups lashed out at the symbols of the Christian community in Iraq. And it is not the first time that priests and religious have paid with their blood,â?? he explained.

87

[quote]lixy wrote:
Do you or do you not agree that this amendment to the Swiss constitution is openly xenophobic and Islamophobic? If you do, then I’ll remind you that Switzerland manufactured vital components for the Luftwaffe, bombs and provided the Reichsbank with cash for their war effort.
[/quote]

No, I don’t. Maybe to xenophobia-phobes. The Swiss are right to consider the preservation of their culture, the ‘flavor’ of their nation. Especially when considering a political/theological ideology so often hostile to European/Western ideals. I simply don’t like the double-edged sword of the precedent. Or, that it might simply sweep a problem under the rug long enough for it to become irreversible. I’d have kicked out every non-citizen muslim, shut off immigration to them, and allowed actual citizens their minarets.

[quote]
Sloth:
Maybe that vast majority of modernized, intelligent, and energetic muslims we always hear about will stay home and crush the teeny-tiny minority of extremists.

Lixy:
Don’t hold your breath.

The will is there but it’ll take generations.[/quote]

Which is why I want to ratchet up the motivation. Gotta stay home and sort out your own countries. No immigrating, watching your host countries and their allies get attacked, and then bitching when they strike back. No, you get to stay home and clean up your own house. Or, continue to be whiny cowards that can’t do jack back home, while demanding everyone else take it on the chin, not doing jack either. Show the world the power, determination, and overwhelming size of the good muslim population. I’ll be watching.

[quote]
Sloth:
So my concern is that these kind of policies might actually help hide a greater problem. Out of sight, out of mind. Then when things come to a head, you realize political power has shifted and it’s too late.

Lixy:
I understood your point. I even congratulated you for seeing it from that angle (provided it’s an original thought).

In doing so, you sealed the debate and provided a full-proof argument. That is, the ethnic Swiss are doomed no matter what happens, and hordes of Muslims are coming to destroy them/corrupt them/eat their flesh/etc. If the proposition had been rejected, you would see it as a a triumph of Islamic supremacy eradicating the defenseless local culture. But since it passed, you see a problem (you even say “a greater problem”) in that it will “hide” things.

Like I said, kudos! You managed to deadlock the debate.[/quote]

I didn’t imply they were doomed. They could control the future character of their country through immigration policy.

88

Exciting votes that might be coming up for Swiss voters:

  • ban on muslim burialgrounds

  • ban on Hijab in public places

89

[quote]Sloth wrote:
…The Swiss are right to consider the preservation of their culture, the ‘flavor’ of their nation. Especially when considering a political/theological ideology so often hostile to European/Western ideals…
[/quote]

Sloth, your avatar and this topic remind me of the book: The Warriors and Bankers
The authors theory is that Switzerland was founded by the Knights Templar after being disbanded by France and Rome.

Adds a bit of historical relevance to the subject, if true.

LinK:

90

Since when have the Swiss liked anything not Swiss? (besides money) You all act surprised, as if Swiss culture isn’t xenophobic to begin with.

91

[quote]loppar wrote:
Unfortunately, as far as removing Saudi funded schools is concerned I was talking in the past. [/quote]

And just to clarify, so was I.

I’ve seen the countless mosques they built all around the world (particularly in the Arab world) to export Wahabism.

92

[quote]archiewhittaker wrote:
I immigrated to Sweden, just like you. [/quote]

I haven’t immigrated anywhere. I’m only in Sweden for the duration of my studies.

Ok. My bad!

Not necessarily. But, in general, the lower classes and less educated tend to be more xenophobic or racist than the mean of the population.

93

[quote]Sloth wrote:
lixy wrote:

Which is why I want to ratchet up the motivation. Gotta stay home and sort out your own countries. No immigrating, watching your host countries and their allies get attacked, and then bitching when they strike back. No, you get to stay home and clean up your own house. Or, continue to be whiny cowards that can’t do jack back home, while demanding everyone else take it on the chin, not doing jack either. Show the world the power, determination, and overwhelming size of the good muslim population. I’ll be watching.

[/quote]

This X2. I vote you ruler of all places.

What a wonderful place the world would be. This is exactly the ONLY way the world will be a better place.

So unless all immigrants do something to save their “beloved counrty” and make it a place worthy of living in themselves, STFU!

94

[quote]lixy wrote:
archiewhittaker wrote:

PS. Street-sweepers fear immigrants?

But, in general, the lower classes and less educated tend to be more xenophobic or racist than the mean of the population.[/quote]

Exactly! The Muslim population are uneducated and xenophobic, displaying hatred towards Christians/jews/catholics/sikhs/buddhists/homosexuals etc.
It is safe to say that out of a 1000 Swiss citizens in Switzerland between the ages of 24-34, you would find a higher level of education than a sample of 1000 Muslims, born in Switzerland, aged 24-34.
The results of the vote to ban minarets has less to do with education and more to do with reducing the security threats that Muslims pose.

One more thing, when do you get your degree? I’d like to know so that when the time comes for your departure from Sweden, I can feel some relief. What are your plans? Joining al-shahab? Street-sweeping? lol

95

[quote]Sloth wrote:
No, I don’t. [/quote]

Ok. Then you have much scarier ideas than I thought you had. Allow me to pick your brain.

Do you know of any country that defines itself as democratic that has codified into its constitution (i.e: its fundamental law), an article that stigmatized a particular religion? The closest thing I can think off did so to Judaism…

Wait…you think irrational fear of strangers is a good thing?

Even at the expense of a minority of other Swiss?

And if they wouldn’t leave? Shove them in ovens?

And how would you know a Muslim? Religious affiliation benefits from privacy in Switzerland. Stick a yellow star on him/her?

And what state body you’ll use to kick them out? The militia? The cops they have can’t round up hundreds of thousands of people in less than centuries.

[quote]Which is why I want to ratchet up the motivation.[/quote[

I buy the premise.

[quote]Gotta stay home and sort out your own countries.[/quote[

In hind-sight, sure!

But in the real world, you have Muslim Swiss citizens and such.

[quote]No immigrating, [/quote[

Switzerland has one of thoughest immigration laws around here. There is not even a jus soli. Citizens get to vote on who gets naturalized, and in most of the country, Muslim-sounding names get rejected more often.

And wouldn’t it be ironic that the country where the UNHCR is based does something like that.

Switzerland is one of those country that is where it is mainly due to globalization. Shutting off borders wouldn’t be a smart economic move. And you would have Gulf countries immediatly taking out their money off Swiss banks.

Anyway, we’ll see what the SVP pushes next.

Again, don’t hold your breath. Majority-Muslims countries are still stuck fighting each other.

And that is exactly what the SVP wants to do.

Just so you know, the rate of participation to this vote was exceptionally high at 75%.

96

Whatever you quoted from Wikipedia didn’t show up… try again, and answer my questions.

97

[quote]Valor wrote:

[quote]archiewhittaker wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:

A minaret is a building, nothing more, nothing less.

That is a masterful understatement.

What matters is:
HOW a building is used, and
WHAT goes on inside of it. You can’t compare that to a church, and you know it.

Try building a church in a Muslim country, it would be more than banned. It would be bombed.
[/quote]

There are, or at least where when i was there, chruches in Iraq.[/quote]

The Caldeans are one of the oldest faith communities in the world. They are mentioned in the bible and they speak Aramaic. Once Sadaam was gone the muslim Iraqis turned on their Caldean neighbors with a vengence and they are almost completely gone from their ancestral homeland that they have lived on for almost five thousand years.

98

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]chris666 wrote:

  • The Swiss need Muslim immigrants:

It is absolutely laughable that the Swiss economy needs Muslim immigrants. The Swiss could fucking cherry pick who they let in.

It does not make any sense to let in hordes of uneducated immigrants. Sooner or later they will be unemployed because the jobs requiring little education are moving out of Europe. This is already happening in Germany.

Most muslims are in Switzerland because the Swiss offered them refuge during the war in ex-yugoslavia and then the Swiss did not kick them out after the war.

[/quote]

Your ignorance regarding Swiss immigration policies is astounding.

Not only do they not have immigrants doing their dirty work but “saisoniers”, meaning people that come to work there and leave afterwards when they are not needed, they also can deport them quite easily.
[/quote]

You do not know what you are talking about. There is no such thing as “saisoniers” in Switzerland anymore. Even if it were, a “saisonier” is of course also an immmigrant. The term “immigrant” does not imply a stay of more than one year.

Most immigrants nowadays are from the EU anyway, especially Germany. They got about 20’000 new Germans last year. So as I said the Swiss do not need Muslim immigrants, they can get immigrants that do not have a religion that is very often at odds with modern western society.

If you can show me any data that Austria accepted more refugees from ex-Jugoslavia per person than Switzerland, I would be surprised.

Fact is: More than 50% of the 400’000 Muslims in Switzerland are from ex-Jugoslavia.

99

[quote]Therizza wrote:
Since when have the Swiss liked anything not Swiss? (besides money) You all act surprised, as if Swiss culture isn’t xenophobic to begin with.[/quote]

As someone that has now been an immigrant in Switzerland for several years, I can say that this is complete bullshit. The Swiss are no more xenophobic than any other country.

You do know that more than 20% of the people living in Switzerland are not Swiss?

A certain amount of worry is understandable, I guess, especially in these economically hard times.

100

[quote]chris666 wrote:

[quote]Therizza wrote:
Since when have the Swiss liked anything not Swiss? (besides money) You all act surprised, as if Swiss culture isn’t xenophobic to begin with.[/quote]

As someone that has now been an immigrant in Switzerland for several years, I can say that this is complete bullshit. The Swiss are no more xenophobic than any other country.

You do know that more than 20% of the people living in Switzerland are not Swiss?

A certain amount of worry is understandable, I guess, especially in these economically hard times.[/quote]

How do minarets relate to hard times?

Can you name one country which defines itself as a democracy, that has codified into its constitution an article that specifically targets and stigmatizes a specific religion. The Swiss people may not be any more xenophobic than others, but the country is sure giving a bad vibe.