Guys you can take Clomid with TRT. If you’re taking under 200mg a week of T Clomid is still effective. Just add it to your TRT and when she’s pregnant stop. It’s that simple. The other option is HMG.
UPDATE:
I couldnt get the doc to order e2 and SHBG today. He just wouldnt do it. I even asked him to just humor me. Didnt work.
I do have the regular labs back though.
Total TEST: 558.6 Range 280-800
LH 4.4
FSH 2.8
Would I be stupid to start to taper of over the next, let’s say 2 months and see if my system keep on ticking on its own?
using something like this for a protocol?
From 25mg ED to 12.5mg ED for 4 weeks, then 12.5mg EOD for 4 weeks and see if i keep on producing T on my own?
I’m starting to really not like clomid. Sides are starting to kick in and its kinda a roller coaster from day to day.
Or should i stay the course but add in say 6.25mg A-sin daily and see if i can combat what i believe are estrogen sides that way???
I know, the best way would be to get labs done but it doesnt seem that i have that luxury right now.
I also found out that i will no longer be seeing this doctor again. He is moving in approx 30 days.
Not sure what my next move should be…
You can always get the labs yourself, lef.org
If you think the bulk of your issues are E2-related, adding an AI would certainly help.
[quote]Ned wrote:
UPDATE:
I couldnt get the doc to order e2 and SHBG today. He just wouldnt do it. I even asked him to just humor me. Didnt work.
I do have the regular labs back though.
Total TEST: 558.6 Range 280-800
LH 4.4
FSH 2.8
Would I be stupid to start to taper of over the next, let’s say 2 months and see if my system keep on ticking on its own?
using something like this for a protocol?
From 25mg ED to 12.5mg ED for 4 weeks, then 12.5mg EOD for 4 weeks and see if i keep on producing T on my own?
I’m starting to really not like clomid. Sides are starting to kick in and its kinda a roller coaster from day to day.
Or should i stay the course but add in say 6.25mg A-sin daily and see if i can combat what i believe are estrogen sides that way???
I know, the best way would be to get labs done but it doesnt seem that i have that luxury right now.
I also found out that i will no longer be seeing this doctor again. He is moving in approx 30 days.
Not sure what my next move should be…
[/quote]
Thanks for the update…
From all the research I have done , you MUST make sure your E2 is low or at least less than 30 when you stop taking clomid or you will shut down…
I would do as cat advised, get your own E2 bloodwork , its likely not that costly and take it from there…
Clomid on its own for most raises estradiol well over where you want it to be…
Even when I was taking 25mg EOD my E2 ended up at 72.
Thanks guys, My closest LEF blood draw station is over 200 miles away and I’ve yet to find anyone local that will draw blood for me.
I may just try 6.25mg A-sin daily and see how I feel.
OR, What if I cut the clomid dose in half but added in XX amount of tamoxifen?
Suggest that you just switch to Nolvadex/tamoxifen. The clomid sides that you describe happen to some guys. You would know this from reading the stickies.
Yes, you can adjust an AI by how you feel. Takes a while to stabilize on a dose, so you cannot make day to day changes.
You can try to see if you can manage a HPTA restart. You would be better off with some AI control during PCT and perhaps cruising after.
Thx KSman, I certainly value your input, as well as all others!!
What would you suggest as a good starting dosage of A-sin?
What would an equivalent dosage of tamoxifen be to 25mg of clomid?
[quote]Ned wrote:
Thx KSman, I certainly value your input, as well as all others!!
What would you suggest as a good starting dosage of A-sin?
What would an equivalent dosage of tamoxifen be to 25mg of clomid?[/quote]
I would love to hear the equivalent dosage aswell.
Lots on hear realize the supposed benefit of tam… But there is little first hand experience to read about.
I know for a fact that small doses of clomid raise my LH and in turn my T… But also my E2
Maybe I’ll call my doc and try tam as well just need a little push
Starting dose for tamoxifen would be 20mg per day.
You’re plan to taper is a smart one. Clomid at 12.5mg twice a week produced the same results as 25mg ED for me. You just have to be methodical about it. Make a reasonable cut in dose or frequency, give it a few weeks for blood levels to stabilize and then retest.
[quote]dhickey wrote:
Starting dose for tamoxifen would be 20mg per day.
You’re plan to taper is a smart one. Clomid at 12.5mg twice a week produced the same results as 25mg ED for me. You just have to be methodical about it. Make a reasonable cut in dose or frequency, give it a few weeks for blood levels to stabilize and then retest.[/quote]
How was your E2 affected by this small a dose ?
did you still get sides from Clomid at this dose ?
Ned - Let me know if this is offtopic stuff you don’t need to see in your thread… Not trying to hijack !
Your Good Mac, Its all pertinent info that is helpful to not only my case but hopefully others at some point.
[quote]Macmathews wrote:
[quote]dhickey wrote:
Starting dose for tamoxifen would be 20mg per day.
You’re plan to taper is a smart one. Clomid at 12.5mg twice a week produced the same results as 25mg ED for me. You just have to be methodical about it. Make a reasonable cut in dose or frequency, give it a few weeks for blood levels to stabilize and then retest.[/quote]
How was your E2 affected by this small a dose ?
did you still get sides from Clomid at this dose ?
Ned - Let me know if this is offtopic stuff you don’t need to see in your thread… Not trying to hijack ![/quote]
I had a really hard time managing E2 while on Clomid and it didn’t appear to be dose dependant. It wasn’t sky high, but less than optimal compared to my Free T. It also appeared to lower IGF-1 levels. Something made me feel off. I also had to maintain really high LH numbers to get to barely acceptable T numbers. I metabolize T really fast and have really low SHBG. I suppose I could have switched to Nolva or Torem to see if that made a difference, but HCG is just so easy. Easy to get my Free T to the top of the range and managing E2 hasn’t been an issue.
dhickey: If you have sides from Clomid, try Nolvadex. Clomid has estrogenic sides for some guys.
Sounds like you really should not be attempting to get your target T levels with hCG or SERM alone. As long as you are injecting, inject T and use just enough hCG to keep testes physically OK.
The problem is the high LH levels and the hyper T–>E2 inside the testes that also would not be anastrozole manageable.
Many do well with 1/2 Clomid or Nolvadex ED or EOD with TRT to support the testes. One can also do labs to check LH/FSH to see whats going on. However, if E2 is not a problem and testes are firm with a low dose, that is a good end point.
I’ve tried Nolva and Torem in the past. I would consider both a failure, but there were issues with the way I went about it.
I don’t see any downside of HCG monotherapy. If I’m taking only enough for my balls to produce solid T numbers, why would I get hyper T to E2 conversion? This never made sense to me. It’s no different than someone that would product high levels of T naturally. 125IU HCG ED and 25mg Aromasin MWF puts me in the 500s for total T and the 20s for Free T and E2. This is from someone that has always had E2 issues, even with low T. Genetic mutation that effects metabolism of estrogens.
125IU of HCG puts me at the same T levels and high LH did, with much better Free T, IGF-1 and much easier to manage E2. This whole fear of HCG skyrocketing E2 seems really overblown. Just don’t take more than you need…much like any other substance.
I may try Nolva or Torem again in the future, but suspect I’ll have similar issues managing E2. These are foreign substances the liver has to deal with, along with the AI and E2 itself.
Well I have found a new doc that after seeing my results on the above protocol, is willing to continue the same.
Blood work will continue on a monthly basis. I’ve also found a office in town that will do private blood work. They cost about 3x as much as LEF but its all I got so I will be getting e2 checked out soon.
Thanks again to everyone here for the insight and following along on my journey.
FINALLY got into the office for some private bloodwork and got e2 checked.
E2: 16 Male Range: 10-40
Here i was thinking that my e2 was high, when in reality it was probably low.
These results are on Clomid 25mg ED. No AI.
Input?
I’ve read that E2 cannot be accurately tested while on a SERM. Any truth to this or is it just bro science?
Your E2 does seem low for that dose especially…
But Your Serum E2 is just that … Now what else can be happening could be considered Bro-Science… I have read on here from KSman and a few others that . There is an E2 within the testes that cannot be controlled even with an AI…
Are you still taking 25MG EOD or did you drop to 12.5 ?
How is everything else ?
[quote]Macmathews wrote:
Your E2 does seem low for that dose especially…
But Your Serum E2 is just that … Now what else can be happening could be considered Bro-Science… I have read on here from KSman and a few others that . There is an E2 within the testes that cannot be controlled even with an AI…
Are you still taking 25MG EOD or did you drop to 12.5 ?
How is everything else ?
[/quote]
Im taking 25mg Everyday.
am i correct in thinking that Intra testicular E2 would not show on a serum e2 test?
As far as how i feel, well it depends on the day, some days i feel pretty good, the next just kinda blah.
erections seem to follow this trend as well. Morning wood and ability for 2-4days is just fine. then maybe a week or so without morning wood and basically loose the ability to achieve an erection.
It’s really been hit or miss.
UPDATE:
Labs have all taken a dive…
Total Test: 436.0
FSH 2.55
LH 3.12
This is all while still taking 25mg ED clomid.
Why are my numbers falling like this? KSMan? Mac? IM not happy…