Could this be caused by the dosage being to high for me???
[quote]Ned wrote:
Could this be caused by the dosage being to high for me???[/quote]
that would be my guess.
I have read about leydig cell desensitization.
Being exposed to high LH for too long…
Not sure what the remedy might be now though…
You might want to try some Nolvadex.
I never would have guess that since my LH never even touched 5 that I would have had to worry about this.
Or maybe e2 has began to rise in the past couple weeks??? Am I correct in thinking that this could also potentially lower LH/FSH/Total T?
Of course the doc, says don’t worry about it, you’re still in range. I say FU doc…
Ksman??? Any input on how to remedy this decline?
I have no idea and I can’t recall much traffic here where guys have been on SERMs and tested LH/FSH.
Its not the SERM can is suspected of desensitization, but LH and that is not high.
The problem here is with the hypothalamus and pituitary. If Gonadotropin-releasing hormone - Wikipedia is weak, that would lead to lower LH/FSH. If GnRH is elevated and not pulsatile, then the pituitary can be inhibited. Beyond, that I don’t know what is going on.
[quote]KSman wrote:
I have no idea and I can’t recall much traffic here where guys have been on SERMs and tested LH/FSH.
Its not the SERM can is suspected of desensitization, but LH and that is not high.
The problem here is with the hypothalamus and pituitary. If Gonadotropin-releasing hormone - Wikipedia is weak, that would lead to lower LH/FSH. If GnRH is elevated and not pulsatile, then the pituitary can be inhibited. Beyond, that I don’t know what is going on.
[/quote]
Thx Ksman. Not sure if i understand correctly though.
Basically you are saying that there is a problem with GnRH production or how the pituitary sees the GnRH at least? Either to much or to little GnRH can cause pituitary inhibition??
[quote]Macmathews wrote:
Btw , I don’t know this for a fact. But you may be able to take both test ands clomid to achieve fertility.
I have uses clomid with test to keep nads full
Keep up posted[/quote]
Does anyone have any further insight into this protocol? I assume Tamox could achieve the same result if this does work???
Time to try HCG.
A hundred point drop could be due to having the blood test a few hours later in the day. It could also be low if you had too little sleep the night before. Don’t give upon your protocol over 1 disappointing test. I’m 55 and I’ve been on 25mg clomid ED for 21 months. Some months I’ve tried 37.5 mg per day or 25mg clomid and 10mg tamoxifen. I don’t have a problem with side effects but I’ve never been able to raise my total T higher than the high 500’s.
I had my best result with low dose HCG added in but I’m really not sure if the HCG helped at all. On the average, the added HCG made almost no difference. Even though my total T levels are double where they were 2 years ago, my SHBG has risen so much that my free T is about the same as it was. I’ve really felt the drop off from when my total T was 490, but my free T was great. E2 has never been a problem with me. It runs around 20 with no arimidex. My next try is going to be to add small T injections to the Clomid to see if I can raise my total T to 700 while still having low normal LH and FSH.
[quote]Freddy77 wrote:
A hundred point drop could be due to having the blood test a few hours later in the day. It could also be low if you had too little sleep the night before. Don’t give upon your protocol over 1 disappointing test. I’m 55 and I’ve been on 25mg clomid ED for 21 months. Some months I’ve tried 37.5 mg per day or 25mg clomid and 10mg tamoxifen. I don’t have a problem with side effects but I’ve never been able to raise my total T higher than the high 500’s.
I had my best result with low dose HCG added in but I’m really not sure if the HCG helped at all. On the average, the added HCG made almost no difference. Even though my total T levels are double where they were 2 years ago, my SHBG has risen so much that my free T is about the same as it was. I’ve really felt the drop off from when my total T was 490, but my free T was great. E2 has never been a problem with me. It runs around 20 with no arimidex. My next try is going to be to add small T injections to the Clomid to see if I can raise my total T to 700 while still having low normal LH and FSH.[/quote]
Wow, quite amazing to me that your E2 stays that low…
Mine ends up at 70 with 25MG EOD…
I am now trying to 12MG EOD…
NED , I wouldn’t give up on a single bad blood draw either, although you have noted a decline over time. If you havent stopped give it 1 last chance
Thank guys,
I’ve tested my e2 again just to make sure it hadn’t gotten high.
Results:
Estradiol 20 Range 10-40
I guess this looks pretty good.
I’ve lowered my dose to 12.5mg daily for this next month until my next set of labs. I’ll be interested to see if I can retain T/LH/FSH numbers while lowering the dose. Hopefully some of this trance like state I’ve been living in lately will subside with the lower dose.
I’ve done some reading around the net and it seems that lots of guys have a dip here and there while on clomid. This set of labs was done 1st thing in the morning. I usually go in the afternoon. Maybe that had something to do with it.
Ill stay the course and keep updating as I go.
[quote]Freddy77 wrote:
A hundred point drop could be due to having the blood test a few hours later in the day. It could also be low if you had too little sleep the night before. Don’t give upon your protocol over 1 disappointing test. I’m 55 and I’ve been on 25mg clomid ED for 21 months. Some months I’ve tried 37.5 mg per day or 25mg clomid and 10mg tamoxifen. I don’t have a problem with side effects but I’ve never been able to raise my total T higher than the high 500’s.
I had my best result with low dose HCG added in but I’m really not sure if the HCG helped at all. On the average, the added HCG made almost no difference. Even though my total T levels are double where they were 2 years ago, my SHBG has risen so much that my free T is about the same as it was. I’ve really felt the drop off from when my total T was 490, but my free T was great. E2 has never been a problem with me. It runs around 20 with no arimidex. My next try is going to be to add small T injections to the Clomid to see if I can raise my total T to 700 while still having low normal LH and FSH.[/quote]
Please keep me posted on how the small injections work for you. I’m certainly interested.
New lab results today.
Total Test: 244
LH 1.97
FSH 2.22
As you can see, my levels have been trending down for 3 months now.
Does this happen on occasion?
I knew my T levels were falling just by the way i felt.
Insight into this?
it’s not working. In a perfect world you’d be able to find the source of your problem. Adrenals, thyroid, deficiency, food allergy, etc. That would take a huge commitment, the right doc and a ton of time. If it were me, I’d try HCG.
[quote]dhickey wrote:
it’s not working. In a perfect world you’d be able to find the source of your problem. Adrenals, thyroid, deficiency, food allergy, etc. That would take a huge commitment, the right doc and a ton of time. If it were me, I’d try HCG.[/quote]
I’d love to try HCG, The problem is, when i mention it to any doc i’ve ever been to they look at me like i just turned into an alien. They havent even HEARD of HCG let alone know what to do with it.
I’d love to try a HCG with HMG protocol. This seems like it would be ideal for fertility.
There is a finding a TRT doc sticky that you can read.
[quote]KSman wrote:
There is a finding a TRT doc sticky that you can read.[/quote]
Oh i’ve read it Ksman. I live in a small town so my options are very limited the closest big city to me is 6hrs away. That’d get expensive in a hurry to be making that trip all the time.
I wish i knew why the clomid stopped working for me. Im very frustrated to say the least.
Even more so, I’d like to know why my pituitary isnt functioning correctly to begin with but wouldnt we all.
I have an appointment with the doc who took over the clomid protocol for me after my last doc left town the end of this month. Im going to ask him about HCG and HMG and see what he has to say about them.
Is there a GnRH blood test that can be done?
Maybe Nolva would work better but i’ve read about it’s toxicity.
The doc had me quit clomid about a month ago now as it wasn’t producing much besides side effects for me.
Labs After 30 days off clomid: I’ll fill in the ??? as more results come back.
Total Test: 133 Range: 300-623
LH: 0.288 LOW
FSH:<0.66 LOW
Would nolva be another option that might be worth a shot or am I SOL on the serms working?
You can get HCG from an international pharmacy with no script. Way cheaper too. Been doing it for years. I think I originally found source and mixing info on sites about the HCG diet.
If clomid failed, guessing any SERM will do the same. The difference between them seem to be sides, not significant difference is effectiveness raising T. If you try another SERM, starting doses seem to 20mg/day Nolva or 60mg/day Torem. Both are more expensive than clomid.
Updated my most recent post with LH and FSH #'s which have both tanked again.
The doc has put my back on my weekly Testosterone injections of 100mg which give me a good sense of well being but…
This seems very counter productive from a fertility standpoint. I feel like if i continue with these shots that the last 6 months of clomid will have all been for nothing as im sure semen #'s will head right back to around ZERO.
Input?