Supplement advice: Plazma V-Diet?

Diet and Nutrition
1

I’m about to travel to do two weeks of 10 hours a day hard physical labor. As I work a sedentary job and train frequently with I3G and Biotest peri-workout, this is out of character for me, and I want to maximize the positive effects of the work on my body (lots of climbing, lifting, carrying, all things I want to get better at), and be able to really go hard while I’m there.

I also want to avoid the local fast food, and polluted (from extractive industries) crap as much as possible. For training, I’ll bring some bands and a gripper, but otherwise, no gym access is anticipated. Looking at my per-diem, 8 servings of plazma a day is within my price range assuming I buy my stuff during the sale, but typing “8 servings of plazma a day” feels like something an idiot would do.

I have goals, but for this period, I want to work as hard as I can, not hurt my progress with two weeks of poor recovery and worse food, and if I can add gained muscle, lost fat, or got stronger to that list, it would be a bonus.

I want to take I3G in the morning, drink plazma throughout the day, drink a MAG-10 after work is over, then eat dinner + superfood + Flameout, with ‘dinner’ being “stuff that came out of a bag from somewhere else”.

For training, I will really kill it in the gym a few days before travel, do nothing, then while there, I’ll use the gripper in the morning to see how my CNS is doing, put out as hard as I can on the job, and use the bands at the end of the day as a finisher for body parts that need it.

TLDR: I want to fulfill my calorie needs as much as possible with Biotest supps for 13 days while doing 10hr/day hard labor (but not an ultramarathon), and I don’t want to screw up my I3G (carb intake, etc), what do I do?

Thanks again Biotest for helping me get everything I want out of my body!

2

Interesting - just caught your post, and to me, it sounds like a great experience.

Couple of things that I’d consider before pounding that much Plazma - just some informal thoughts, as this is a tough call:

How much ‘hypertrophy/resistance’ activity will you be doing - realistically? That may be a tough question since you’re just stepping into this (unless you’ve done it before). The reason I ask is that If your actual activity level is high, but the resistance ‘training’ that you’ll be doing is low (ie: mostly GPP activity - not much direct lifting etc) you may not need that much plazma, or that many carbs, and secondly, if your goal is body recomp, you may want to further reduce the carbs. My thoughts are that unless you’re really breaking down muscle tissue, this could be overkill from a cost, and carb perspective. 8 Servings of Plazma is pretty high. Definitely NOT saying that PLAZMA will cause fat gain…but for fat loss/recomp on your timeline, it will be contingent on your total and type of activity.

Even though the carbs in PLAZMA are incredibly efficient/clean, you may want to take a day or two and see what you actually need, and ramp dosing. At the end of the day, your actual activity type/volume will be the determining factor once you’re onsite.

An alternative for you, that I would opt for, would be to bring a box or two of Finibars, and start out with a Finibar and a MAG-10 serving for breakfast, after ingesting your I3G and either duplicate that every 2-3 hours (based on activity), or alternate that protocol with a dose of PLAZMA. This would also negate the need to bring as much plazma along.

I’ve honestly been shocked by how effective FINiBARs are, especially in conjunction with IG3.

That’ll also give you more flexibility for customizing your approach, as you reassess goal attainment / progress every day or two.

I’d also consider adding some Circumin for any soreness, to the rest of your list - if the activity/time/volume is as intensive as it sounds, you’ll appreciate the anti-inflammatory effect. For joints and muscle soreness I take Circumin / Flameout / FA3 and MSM 2x per day, and notice a tremendous difference in systemic, as well as acute inflammation in response to training, and cumulative joint issues that I’ve accrued over the years.

Just my two cents - have fun, sounds great.

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Thanks for the reply!

Curcumin is awesome, I neglected to mention that I am a heavy user.

I’m not actually sure how much I’ll be doing that will qualify as resistance training, but I can blast away with the bands and the gripper at the end of the day if the answer turns out to be ‘not enough’. I also expect the activity level to be high, but well short of ‘ultramarathon’ high–which would be a serving every 30min (per Tim Patterson here: Biotest Supplement Advice - Forums - T Nation ) I am fueling 250lbs of me, and according to this mayoclinic calculator: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/calorie-calculator/NU00598 my daily requirement is 4100 for ‘very active’, and 2950 for ‘inactive’, the actual numbers are probably different, because I imagine the calculator isn’t normalized for people my size. My v-diet numbers are 1800 non-workout, 2100 workout days. Since I use I3G, 1200 of those calories are from the 300g carbs ‘floor’.

I am so used to finibars being out of stock that I did not think about planning to use them. Derp. I need to think about this.

My thinking is that with I3G, the base requirement is 300g of carbs per day, and it has to come from somewhere, my options are supps (Plazma, Finibars, MAG-10) or “the economy”, the most aggressive use of supps would be to fully replace the carb ‘floor’ and sticking to meat and veggies at dinner on the economy; which is what I’m leaning towards, because I don’t want to have to eat garbage to make sure I get my carbs.

Going on the serving information:
-MAG-10 + Finibar = 430cal 50g carbs, 35g protein, $4;
-Plazma = 210cal 38g carbs, 15g protein, $3.25.

300g carbs is either 8 servings of Plazma ($26) or 6 MAG-10 + Finibars ($24).

Then we come to the protein, 6 MAG-10 + finibar = 210g, 8 plazma = 120g, at 114kg, it’s a little over 1.8g per kg for mag10/finibar vs slightly over 1g for the plazma. 1.8/kg is a lot, especially for highly anabolic proteins like MAG-10 and finibars, and since the plan is to eat as little in the way of carbs as possible on the economy while making the calorie target, the real ratio will be higher.

The calorie count is 2580 for the mag10/finibar and 1680 for plazma. I will have to keep the nalgene handy either way, and have to mess with finibars. Since the calorie count is lower with the plazma, I feel like it gives me more flexibility if the workload is low, or I fail at finding healthy alternatives; then again, the MAG-10 + finibars might be enough to maintain a calorie deficit all the way through if I just don’t eat solid food.

Any feedback is appreciated.

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Great points on the economy of PLAZMA versus the MAG-10 and the Finibars - also excellent point on the cost differential, and KCAL requirements. Love it.

In regard to your approach, my only remaining question, is really: ‘what’s your goal’?

As you know, with most things in life, the more specific we are, the more clarity we gain, which in turn will provide the clarity that we need to define strategy/tactics.

If it’s hypertrophy, I would find that to be the most challenging, due to the fact that you’re unsure of the exact activities, and specifically, may or may not be able to control the loads/movements that you’ll be doing. Again, as you well know, if the load / movements are insufficient to induce hypertrophy, you will probably not need that many carbs, as the hydrolysate in MAG-10 and PLAZMA will be sufficient to keep you out of a catabolic state (and likely in an anabolic state, all day).

Personally, when I first began the IG3 Protocol along with PLAZMA, I overshot the carb intake. The first 30 days were maintained at 400 G per day - after which, I gained 15lbs, but my waist and Body fat % remained the same - when my goal was fat loss. No complaints for a 41 year old :slight_smile: - but my goal was to lose fat - so I cut the carbs to 250 g and quickly shed the body %. Since then, I’ve actually cut carbs to as low as 150 g on light GPP or non-training days, and have shed more % - with zero impact on my training performance, thanks to these outstanding supps for pre/peri/post.

Of course, you could already be in single digit % (I have no idea) however, for me, I would look at this as a fantastic opportunity for body recomp/fat loss, plus, when you get back home, you could be primed for some mass gain, when you return to normal training.

If that’s the case, I would consider breakfast with PLAZMA then alternating MAG-10 and PLAZMA every other dose. That will drop the carbs, and allow you to torch more BF, faster. Additionally, if you experience any hypoglycemia or are overly fatigued, you can throw in a standalone Finibar - so you’re covered either way.

That would also give you more leeway with whole food at night.

You can then review progress, with the mirror, and a tailor’s tape measure (easy to pack) and adjust accordingly. Finally, you could also take a G-FLUX approach as per Berardi, which could change based upon any variations of your day to day activities.

If you’re leaning more towards lean mass gain, then I’d look long and hard at some primal GPP / circuits, with available implements, and bodyweight exercises, as it sounds like there could be an opportunity for some creativity on that front…but it sounds like you’ll already be gassed at the end of the day, so that may be out.

So in any event…what would you say your outcome goal is for the end of the two weeks, fat loss or hypertrophy, as that will be the deciding factor…if it’s fat loss, I think you still stand a great chance for some minimal hypertrophy based upon the GPP type labor that you’ll be doing…could be a short term best of both worlds…great topic by the way, compelling scenario!

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300g seems to be my floor on I3G, the few times I’ve gone lower I’ve regretted it. My main goal is to avoid local food, followed by derive some benefit to BF%, lean mass, or strength. My BF% could use some work, and proportional strength improving through the week sounds like a good idea. My criteria for success is “I didn’t eat crap food, I didn’t get weaker, I didn’t get fatter” in about that order.

I threw ‘8 servings of plazma’ out there as a ridiculous starting point, but it is starting to sound less like overkill. “One nalgene bottle” is a significant part of the allure. I can fill it with 4 servings, drink it throughout the morning, refill it for the afternoon, and if I have any left because I didn’t do enough work, I can kill the rest with a circuit (I’ll have bands, and I’ll find something heavy to lift and throw), I’d be really disappointed if I did so little that I had some left at the end of the day for the next day, but that’s always an option. Having MAG-10 available during the day (2 bottles) and finibars (plus a box) would probably be optimal, but I’m less interested in carrying all that around, and I don’t want to have to make decisions about supps when I should be thinking about the task at hand “just drink it when you’re hungry/thirsty and make sure it’s gone by the lunch break” is probably best.

I think going as hard as possible in the gym a few days before leaving will also help, so that even if I end up doing less work, my body still has that stimulus to work off for a little while.

So to go with the ‘v-diet theme’, it would be 4sv plazma in the morning/afternoon, MAG-10 at the end of the day and at bedtime, half a serving of FA3 and Flameout in the morning and another in the evening with superfood in the evening. If I end up with a big calorie deficit at the end of the day, I’ll make it up with nut butter and vegetables. If I have a plazma surplus at the end of the day, I’ll toss a scoop of creatine malate in (thermogenic for me) and do an intense circuit. Between the bands and something heavy to throw, I’ll be able to hit almost every muscle hard enough, I just won’t be doing the big compound movements that load the spine. Total cost of doing that comes out to around $30/day if the discount for november is included, which is well within my per-diem budget for that period of time.

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Sounds like you’re teed up man - best of luck!

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@JoininTheChant, this sounds like a fascinating experiment! I’ll bet you come out way ahead and surpass your modest definitions of success. Actually, this isn’t that different from some things Christian has done; granted, he’s done them for a day or two when he’s blasting a particular muscle group, but the principle is the same. I’d be really curious how you make out. Please keep us apprised.

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Boo! I just got a message on my phone saying ‘out of plazma srry’, this puts a damper in my plans. I sent an email to customer support asking to confirm this fact, and if some specific things could be done, I’m really hoping to hear back before December 1, because I have to adjust my packing list based on this.

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Biotest customer service is awesome, I was taken care of. I didn’t adhere to the plan perfectly. I drank two in the morning with Indigo-3G, then drank instinctively throughout the day. I ended up at six a day, I didn’t feel like I didn’t have enough carbs, and I threw in two light workouts, or a heavy one.

I did a wide variety of band work in addition to the work throughout the day (mostly lifting, dragging, carrying, climbing). I did get two or more servings of MAG-10 down per day, and ran through a whole tub in two weeks. I also did not completely eschew solid food, there were a few places where it would have been polite to eat a small serving of something, so I did.

I ended up eating one serving of Flameout and one serving of FA-3 per day total, I probably should have had more, but it felt like the right amount. I also went through a full tub of Superfood, but I was sharing that a little.

Now…results!

My weight is exactly the same as it was when I left. That said, I did lose three belt loops, I feel a lot leaner, and look a lot more cut–my girlfriend’s reaction was ‘holy shit you lost weight’. So I had no net loss of weight, but substantial visible fat loss. I also have minimal, but some noticeable loss of strength, which is surprising, all things considered. I expected to be a lot more beaten down; while everyone else was dragging, I was going almost as hard as I was at the start at the end, I credit the Plazma for that.

And I didn’t eat any fast food. I’m going to take next week entirely off from lifting and just focus on getting lots of sleep and a calorie surplus of clean whole food (stew, rice, and Metabolic Drive!) to see what the rebound looks like; this isn’t poliquin’s super accumulation program, but rest is probably a good idea. I’ll post another thread when I decide what I’m going to do after the time off.

TLDR: poor discipline, so do this with better controls and more work, very visible recomp happened, two Plazma breakfast is the best idea ever, followed closely by Superfood + Flameout + FA3 + minerals in the evening, stay tuned for ‘rebound’ info.

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Congrats man - sounds like it went as well as it could for a first pass…great self-discipline as well, I’m sure the other volunteers were blown away by your work capacity too :slight_smile:

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Excellent! Thanks for reporting back in.