Super Skinny to Scary Strong (or S^4 )

[Court1]

[quote]Oleena wrote:
Thank you. Okay, so I have a question relating to your advice against using this method in the gym on, say, an every other week basis for maybe two to three different exercises. In the one time that I did it, I was able to bench press 5lbs more after 7 minutes than I’d been capable of before holding the 2x1RM over my head for 10 seconds. That seems like a pretty decent improvement for less than 10 minutes. Now I understand that I wasn’t actually stronger; I hadn’t grown more muscle fibers in that span of time. However, since I was lifting 5lbs more than before, wouldn’t that be more effective at making me grow more muscle fibers in the long run than just maxing out at 5lbs less?

PS I don’t consider it a workout, just something to try on the same day when you’re maxing out.

[/quote]

I guess the question back is why would you be maxing out every other week on ANY lifts?

Maxing out is super taxing to your body and it takes a while for it to recover, even if you “feel” fine the next day. If you’re doing this on a regular basis, when are you actually recovered enough to improve and make strength gains?

You’re a beginner. Use this time to eat lots, gain strength and put on the muscle that you want. If there isn’t a reason to be testing your 1RM other than for your ego, drop it. It’s not doing your body any favors.

[dianab]

I wonder if resting for 10 minutes AFTER your last bench had anything to do with you be able to bench 5lbs+. Just a thought.
I’d have to agree about maxing out your lifts, particularly BP. Your shoulders will thank you in the long run. Now, if you are starting a new program and need to base percentages from a 1RM, then you need to test. It’s not the end of all benchmarks for a beginner. Or anyone for that matter.

As for whether it will make you stronger in the long run, what if you took that 10 minutes and moved on to a horizontal pulling exercise and were able to complete 2 or 3 sets in that time? The weight you moved would be far greater then benching a single rep. Your back would grow stronger, thereby helping you to increase your bench, squat and deadlift over time.

[sbmart2]

[quote]Oleena wrote:

Hope you don’t mind the science lesson invasion on your post. Actually, people (or their parents)have to pay all sorts of money to sit and listen to me say what you just got for free, so consider it a gift!!!

Thank you. Okay, so I have a question relating to your advice against using this method in the gym on, say, an every other week basis for maybe two to three different exercises. In the one time that I did it, I was able to bench press 5lbs more after 7 minutes than I’d been capable of before holding the 2x1RM over my head for 10 seconds. That seems like a pretty decent improvement for less than 10 minutes. Now I understand that I wasn’t actually stronger; I hadn’t grown more muscle fibers in that span of time. However, since I was lifting 5lbs more than before, wouldn’t that be more effective at making me grow more muscle fibers in the long run than just maxing out at 5lbs less?

PS I don’t consider it a workout, just something to try on the same day when you’re maxing out.

[/quote]

You are right. Keep doing what you’re doing!!!

I am one of those people who seek information from people who are stronger and have been at this longer, but I have to remember that not everyone is on T-Nation for the same reason as myself.

Good luck in your strength goals.

[Oleena]

[quote]sbmart2 wrote:
Oleena wrote:

Hope you don’t mind the science lesson invasion on your post. Actually, people (or their parents)have to pay all sorts of money to sit and listen to me say what you just got for free, so consider it a gift!!!

Thank you. Okay, so I have a question relating to your advice against using this method in the gym on, say, an every other week basis for maybe two to three different exercises. In the one time that I did it, I was able to bench press 5lbs more after 7 minutes than I’d been capable of before holding the 2x1RM over my head for 10 seconds. That seems like a pretty decent improvement for less than 10 minutes. Now I understand that I wasn’t actually stronger; I hadn’t grown more muscle fibers in that span of time. However, since I was lifting 5lbs more than before, wouldn’t that be more effective at making me grow more muscle fibers in the long run than just maxing out at 5lbs less?

PS I don’t consider it a workout, just something to try on the same day when you’re maxing out.

You are right. Keep doing what you’re doing!!!

I am one of those people who seek information from people who are stronger and have been at this longer, but I have to remember that not everyone is on T-Nation for the same reason as myself.

Good luck in your strength goals.[/quote]

I’m guessing that was straight-up sarcasm, in which case I think you might have misinterpretted my intention in that previous post. I was literally asking you to explain further what you have previously said. I like being proven wrong on topics, and especially by those who know more than me. However, I like being thoroughly proven wrong. This is helpful because then when I go to explain it to other people, I have all of the arguments nicely stacked up in my head. I’m not a student who asks a question, gets a basic answer, and is satisfied. I like knowing everything I can about the right answer.

So here’s a more straight-forward question to which I hope you respond seriously because I respect your knowledge: how often should one who has been training for less than 6 months max out on deadlift, squat, or bench press if they are strength training 4-5 days a week using between 5-8 reps for each lift?

[Oleena]

Since the GVT my chest has actually been sore (which hasn’t happened with the hundreds of push-ups and the regular chest workouts where I go to failure in no less than one set of each exercise).

Today I did:

supinated bicep curls, neutral incline hammer curls, and supinated up pronated down curls. 30-45 second break between all of them and 17.5lb dumbbells. 8 reps each for 3 sets, inbetween sets I did the following:

db skull crushers at 15 lbs (this is up from the barely being able to do 10 lbs two weeks ago!), and (I can’t remember what the name of this is, but it looks like a skull crusher with your elbows going straight out to the side and the weights coming down on your upper chest, then straight up) at 17.5 lbs. Then I went back to the db skull crushers. with the same break, reps, and number of sets as above.

Afterwards I attempted to do another GVT set scheme for calf raises at 45lbs. That was way too light! I got through all of them without breaking a sweat. In the one-minute rests, I did as many grips as I could per hand, alternating each rest.

My last exercise was db deltoid extensions at 10 lbs (up from the 5lbs I started with).

DIET:

Today I cut processed carbs. I’m eating fruit with every meal in their place. I’m also taking 6 total fish oil capsules divided up with meals, and a performance multivitamin in the morning. Interesting note on that multivitamin- I actually feel happier after taking it. Pretty sure it’s all the B vitamins.

My meals so far have consisted of some sort of animal protein (eggs, chicken, lean beef, etc), veggies, almonds (I snack on these all the time), and about a peach-sized amount of fruit.

Meal suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated. I get bored so easily. Right now this is fun, but I bet I’ll be craving spagetti in three days.

[sbmart2]

[quote]Oleena wrote:
sbmart2 wrote:
Oleena wrote:

Hope you don’t mind the science lesson invasion on your post. Actually, people (or their parents)have to pay all sorts of money to sit and listen to me say what you just got for free, so consider it a gift!!!

Thank you. Okay, so I have a question relating to your advice against using this method in the gym on, say, an every other week basis for maybe two to three different exercises. In the one time that I did it, I was able to bench press 5lbs more after 7 minutes than I’d been capable of before holding the 2x1RM over my head for 10 seconds. That seems like a pretty decent improvement for less than 10 minutes. Now I understand that I wasn’t actually stronger; I hadn’t grown more muscle fibers in that span of time. However, since I was lifting 5lbs more than before, wouldn’t that be more effective at making me grow more muscle fibers in the long run than just maxing out at 5lbs less?

PS I don’t consider it a workout, just something to try on the same day when you’re maxing out.

You are right. Keep doing what you’re doing!!!

I am one of those people who seek information from people who are stronger and have been at this longer, but I have to remember that not everyone is on T-Nation for the same reason as myself.

Good luck in your strength goals.

I’m guessing that was straight-up sarcasm, in which case I think you might have misinterpretted my intention in that previous post. I was literally asking you to explain further what you have previously said. I like being proven wrong on topics, and especially by those who know more than me. However, I like being thoroughly proven wrong. This is helpful because then when I go to explain it to other people, I have all of the arguments nicely stacked up in my head. I’m not a student who asks a question, gets a basic answer, and is satisfied. I like knowing everything I can about the right answer.

So here’s a more straight-forward question to which I hope you respond seriously because I respect your knowledge: how often should one who has been training for less than 6 months max out on deadlift, squat, or bench press if they are strength training 4-5 days a week using between 5-8 reps for each lift?

[/quote]

I think asking questions and learning more is great. But what is important to understand is that if you are new in an area, you don’t know enough to make a good solid argument to prove wrong. I still find myself in this category with lifting. So what I try to do is find people who are currently succeeding in powerlifting and then I soak up any and all information that they are giving me. If, later down the road, I have made it to a level past theirs, then maybe we can have a conversation about methodology. But for now, what they say goes, even if I’ve read something new and cool in a magazine or book. Don’t get me wrong, I ask a lot of questions but I try to phrase it in a way where it isn’t asking them to give me solid proof that they are right and I am wrong. This can come off arrogant and turns people off from trying to help (this may explain my past post).

If you are open to learning and respect people’s advice, there is a lot you can learn from participating in the forums on this site. There are all sorts of amazing women on here who I admire because they have shown the confidence and determination to train hard and test themselves in competition. I am always glad for any time they take to help me out! When I started seriously strength training, I was having trouble knowing whether I was deadlifting correctly so Court had me submit a video and helped me clean up my form. MMgalb has let me start training with her. So I owe a lot to the women on this forum. Okay I will stop turning this into a sap fest.

As for your question about maxing out, both Dianab and Court already gave better advice than I could. Basically don’t worry about maxing out. It is really good if you want to use it to mark progress at the beginning and end of a program. I’m about to test my Maxes after finishing a 4 month program. The other time you worry about maxing out is during a competition!

[Oleena]

Just took my measurements. My body fat is still at 19%.

40 in shoulders (-1/2)
28.5 under bust (-1)
27 waist (-1/2)
30.5 hips
37 buttocks (no change)
21 thigh (+3)
12.5 calf (-1/2)
10 bicep (+1/4)
9.5 lower arm

Is it just me or is that a rather sporatic number fluctuation, considering that my weight on all lifts has increased and my body fat stayed the same?

[JN7844]

[quote]Oleena wrote:
Just took my measurements. My body fat is still at 19%.

40 in shoulders (-1/2)
28.5 under bust (-1)
27 waist (-1/2)
30.5 hips
37 buttocks (no change)
21 thigh (+3)
12.5 calf (-1/2)
10 bicep (+1/4)
9.5 lower arm

Is it just me or is that a rather sporatic number fluctuation, considering that my weight on all lifts has increased and my body fat stayed the same?[/quote]

You would make Sir Mix-A-Lot happy. (“You can do side bends or situps, but please don’t lose that butt.”)

On a serious note, what method are you using for bodyfat testing?

Also, I struggle to believe you added 3 inches to your thighs in a month. How confident are you that you measured at the same spot?

Overall, it looks like you’re doing well and your lifts are going up. Congrats! I took particular interest in your GVT workouts. I was thinking about giving it a shot with deadlifts tomorrow. (Pain may be in my near future.)

[debraD]

[quote]Oleena wrote:
Meal suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated. I get bored so easily. Right now this is fun, but I bet I’ll be craving spagetti in three days.[/quote]

Are you trying to lose bodyfat? Because doing so will affect your strength and it sounds like strength is your goal right now. You can’t really have both.

My diet is monotonous as hell. But it works so I have basically given up on variety which is fine by me because I am too lazy to figure the macros of new food all the time. I have a suspicion that keeping my meals monotonous, predictable and regular keep my diet on track.

Every meal except for PWO and breakfast is basically a massive spinach salad with oil and vinegar and some kind of meat, about 300g, usually salmon steak, sometimes chicken or steak or rainbow trout, occasionally Italian sausages or meatballs (no sauce), and a handful of nuts. Dinners I throw in a bunch of extra vegetables.

Breakfast is (after a fasted run) plain yogurt with protein powder and fruit (usually 1-1/2 cups blueberries or mixed berries and a nectarine), 2-4 hard boiled eggs. On lifting days I also have two multigrain raisin bagels with natural peanut butter and about 4 heaping spoonfuls of breyers. Plus I eat a few hardboiled eggs throughout the day and also snack on almonds. I eat a bowl of ice cream before bed otherwise my morning run is hell.

[debraD]

[quote]Oleena wrote:
Just took my measurements. My body fat is still at 19%.

40 in shoulders (-1/2)
28.5 under bust (-1)
27 waist (-1/2)
30.5 hips
37 buttocks (no change)
21 thigh (+3)
12.5 calf (-1/2)
10 bicep (+1/4)
9.5 lower arm

Is it just me or is that a rather sporatic number fluctuation, considering that my weight on all lifts has increased and my body fat stayed the same?[/quote]

I would retake those measurements. Take them a few times and get used to doing it the same every time; you should get the same numbers when you re-measure. Just until you’re familiar with them, but not to become obsessed! Keep your posture similar, your leg stance the same for the measurements if you want accuracy.

[Oleena]

LOL. My goal isn’t to loose body fat. It’s to stay the same while putting on muscle (19%). The problem is that I have pretty sensitive acne, and anything that I eat that’s very processed will make me ugly for a week. For instance, I love this idea of eating ice cream every night before bed, but if I did that my face would explode.

Right now I’m eatting ALOT of different meats and eggs, stir fry veggies, and more than half a cup of various fruits with every meal. I also eat about two protein shakes, snack on almonds every time I pass them (lots), and take suppliments.

To give you an idea of how much of the clean stuff I’m eatting: yesterday I at an entire pound of lean beef, veggies, and fruit for lunch. Today I’m about to make several salmon patties, and combine the veggies and fruit again.

So I guess more specifically, any recommendations that are low on the glycemic index?

[quote]debraD wrote:
Oleena wrote:
Meal suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated. I get bored so easily. Right now this is fun, but I bet I’ll be craving spagetti in three days.

Are you trying to lose bodyfat? Because doing so will affect your strength and it sounds like strength is your goal right now. You can’t really have both.

My diet is monotonous as hell. But it works so I have basically given up on variety which is fine by me because I am too lazy to figure the macros of new food all the time. I have a suspicion that keeping my meals monotonous, predictable and regular keep my diet on track.

Every meal except for PWO and breakfast is basically a massive spinach salad with oil and vinegar and some kind of meat, about 300g, usually salmon steak, sometimes chicken or steak or rainbow trout, occasionally Italian sausages or meatballs (no sauce), and a handful of nuts. Dinners I throw in a bunch of extra vegetables.

Breakfast is (after a fasted run) plain yogurt with protein powder and fruit (usually 1-1/2 cups blueberries or mixed berries and a nectarine), 2-4 hard boiled eggs. On lifting days I also have two multigrain raisin bagels with natural peanut butter and about 4 heaping spoonfuls of breyers. Plus I eat a few hardboiled eggs throughout the day and also snack on almonds. I eat a bowl of ice cream before bed otherwise my morning run is hell.
[/quote]

[Oleena]

[quote]debraD wrote:
Oleena wrote:
Just took my measurements. My body fat is still at 19%.

40 in shoulders (-1/2)
28.5 under bust (-1)
27 waist (-1/2)
30.5 hips
37 buttocks (no change)
21 thigh (+3)
12.5 calf (-1/2)
10 bicep (+1/4)
9.5 lower arm

Is it just me or is that a rather sporatic number fluctuation, considering that my weight on all lifts has increased and my body fat stayed the same?

I would retake those measurements. Take them a few times and get used to doing it the same every time; you should get the same numbers when you re-measure. Just until you’re familiar with them, but not to become obsessed! Keep your posture similar, your leg stance the same for the measurements if you want accuracy.
[/quote]

I agree. If I had to guess which of the above measurements are halfways accurate, I would say the thigh, bicep, and buttocks. My thighs are literally ripping through my jeans to the point that my boyfriend thinks it’s funny.

Time to go shopping.

[Oleena]

The only way I can describe what I went through today is interval sprint training, but with deadlifts. It may be the hardest I’ve ever sweated, and the closest to passing out I’ve ever gotten. But right (5 hours after the fact) now I feel fucking amazing!

Today’s little gym episode:

back squats: 115lbsx8x4 (45 sec rest)

GVT with deadlift: 100lbsx10x10 (1 min rest)
The 7th set, I got 8 reps, the 8th 9reps, the 9th 8 reps, and the 10th 8 reps. So 93 total reps at 100lbs. The sweat was streaming.

standing calf raise: 105lbsx8x4 (30 sec rest)
seated calf raise: (80lbsx8x2)
single leg calf raise: 15 reps per leg for 3 sets.

Then three different ab exercises for 20+ reps, 2 sests each.

PS My body loves this no processed carbs thing! Normally I feel tired, grumpy, and at times have digestive issues. Those things disappeared after one day!

Today my body feels better than it ever has in my entire life!!!

[Oleena]

BTW, here is a video I found in my foam rolling search. I’ve watched it three times and I still can’t remember what he’s actually doing My mind keeps traveling. Does anyone else have that problem? Travel Roller - Basic Foam Roller Exercise - Upper Back - YouTube

PS After watching about ten videos on foam rolling, all I can conclude is that it basically involves wriggling around at a medium speed back and forth motion into and onto as many body parts as possible.

[Oleena]

I discovered muscles I’d only read about when I woke up today.

I also discovered that I need to stop going to the gym right before work and thereby cut my workout short due to the time crunch. Today’s shortened workout:

Good mornings into shoulder press: 45lb bar only 8x4 40 sec rest

Bent over row: 95lbs 8x4 45 sec rest

Bench press: 85lbs 8x4 1 minute rest

Back extension: 35lbs 8x3 30 sec rest

Assisted pullups-bar dip super set: 40lbs assistance 8x3 40 sec rest

Back flies: 7.5 lbs 8x2 with 15 sec hold at the end.

The initial reps of the bench press flew up! Later in the sets I started missing and forced out the last couple with some assistance.

Due to the fact that I’m sore beyond belief, worked out five days in the last week, and am working an overnight right now with little chance for sleep tomorrow before my other job, I’m not going near a gym until Tuesday.