Two quotes:
“We knew it was going to be tough going up against the Pittsburgh Steelers. I didn’t know we were going to have to play the guys in the striped shirts as well.”
- Mike Holmgren
“I told Coach I didn’t think I made it”
- Big Ben.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Moriarty wrote:
I really suspect a lot of you guys have never played football and/or don’t know the rules. I don’t support either of these teams but you guys are exaggerating:
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The DJ push-off: He pushed off, simple as that. The replay showed him extending his arm and pushing off, right in front of the official. Why is this even a question? Because it “wasn’t that bad”? Give me a break, he pushed off.
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Locklear holding: He obviously held. He got horribly beat at the edge and held the defensive player. In fact, while the play was happening, I yelled at the screen “wow what a hold!” before the ball was even thrown.
If I could see it clearly from my couch I sure hope the officials could see it on the field. If anything the defensive player was offsides because he had an almost perfect jump on the snap…but to say he wasn’t held is ridiculous.
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Ben’s rushing TD: Looked pretty clear to me, and everyone watching, that the ball crossed the plain. What are people arguing about here?
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Holding call on the kick return: Again, another clear case of holding. You can make the argument that it didn’t affect the play, but he held nonetheless.
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Personal foul for blocking below the knees: Obviously a horrible call; the ref mistook his tackle for contact with a block. This was only 15 yards though and did not “lose the game for Seattle”.
The better team won.
Have you seen the game?[/quote]
I take it you can’t dispute any of those points, other than to regurgitate what you heard Madden and Al Micheals say.
[quote]kh21247 wrote:
Moriarty wrote:
How was the holding call a bad call when the player OBVIOUSLY HELD? My friend and I were talking about this earlier. We both saw this obvious hold, but we knew EVERYONE would be bitching because “holding” is an imaginary penalty to most people and if it happens to your team on a big play it was a “bad call”.
Seriously, can you explain what about calling an obvious hold is a bad call?
Holding: "…Hand(s) thrust forward that slip outside the body of the defender will be legal if blocker worked to bring them back inside. Hand(s) or arm(s) that encircle a defender-i.e., hook an opponent-are to be considered illegal and officials are to call a foul for holding.
Blocker cannot use his hands or arms to push from behind, hang onto, or encircle an opponent in a manner that restricts his movement as the play develops."
Look at the play. Locklear was in front the whole time (off to the side a little but in between the defender and the quarterback) and had his blocking hand inside the shoulders the whole time. That was not a hold. You can lead the defender off to the side so he doesn’t collapse the pocket and its perfectly legal.
I do have to admit i’m a seachickens fan and was pissed about the officiating during the game, but i thought it was just my fan bias so it didn’t bother me too much. After hearing some non-hawks fans from around the country think the same thing though i’m starting to get pretty pissed off again.
Did anybody else catch Ben’s BLOCK below the knees on the Randle El pass? It was an actual BLOCK too, not a TACKLE!
Anyway, congratulations steelers. I guess i’m glad Bettis finally got a ring…
[/quote]
Thanks for taking the time to put together a thought-out, coherent response. Do you have a copy of the game that you’re using to review the play? I do not have a copy, so I’ve only seen it twice, once while it was happening and then the replay. From what I remember seeing, the defender made an explosive move beating Locklear to the edge (might have even been offsides), Locklear engaged the defender from the side (not holding), and as the defender was separating Locklear encircled with his arm and appeared to be pulling (holding). I saw this as the play was happening, and before the ball was thrown and before I knew what the outcome of the play would be I pointed the hold out to my friends. I saw this play and made my judgement as it was happening, not based on what Madden and others have said. I do not support the Seahawks, nor the Steelers. If anything, I wanted the Seahawks to win because my mother had money on them.
It seems like you have a copy of the game that you’ve reviewed. Most others seem to be basing their arguments off of what Madden says he saw, which is ridiculous to say the least.
As for the other plays…I played football for years at the wide receiver position. If I had done what DJ did in the endzone, contact the defender with a fully extended arm in plain veiw of the official and then move in the opposite direction towards the ball, I would fully expect to have a flag thrown. The argument that it shouldn’t have been called because it was minor is ridiculous. If that’s the case, Hasselbeck should’ve fumbled because the contact made on him was minor and clearly did not cause him to go down. The rules are the rules and in those two instances they were applied correctly.
[quote]Moriarty wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Moriarty wrote:
I really suspect a lot of you guys have never played football and/or don’t know the rules. I don’t support either of these teams but you guys are exaggerating:
- The DJ push-off: He pushed off, simple as that. The replay showed him extending his arm and pushing off, right in front of the official. Why is this even a question? Because it “wasn’t that bad”? Give me a break, he pushed off.
[/quote]
They were handfighting at the front of the endzone. Initial contact was by the defender. Should have been defensive pass interference well before what happened in the back of the endzone. Either that or no call.
No way was that holding. I have seen the replay a bunch of times.
Now you are making shit up. He was not in. The official coming in from the side signaled 4th down and was spotting the ball. When Ben slid the ball over the line he then signalled TD. Absolutely horrible.
The only hold was at the line of scrimmage prior to the punt and that was minor. Bad call.
Horrible call. This set up the trick play TD.
Seattle played better. If the officiating was fair they probably would have won.
If the would have benefited from all these bad calls they would have won easily.
To deny that the officiating was horrid and effected the outcome is silly.
The NFL has to fix their officiating problem. It ruined their premier event.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
They were handfighting at the front of the endzone. Initial contact was by the defender. Should have been defensive pass interference well before what happened in the back of the endzone. Either that or no call.
[/quote]
Ok, perhaps that is true, but you don’t dispute that he pushed off, correct? And out of that handfighting, certainly making contact with a fully extended arm, then moving in the opposite direction to the ball was the most egregious move, especially considering it was right in front of the ref.
There’s obviously no way to settle that unless we go to the tape. Where are you guys getting this replay, because I’ve searched the net and can’t find it. I admit that I have only seen the play twice and am going of memory, but I did notice holding and pointed it out while the play was in progress.
And let’s assume it wasn’t a hold, and they get the ball at the 1. Now what, a guarenteed touchdown? Hardly. They could’ve thrown play-action pass to get intercepted and ran back for a touchdown. To try and extrapolate is silly.
No, I’m not. It really looked like the ball crossed the goal line to me, and the others watching with me, especially when you take the angle of the camera into consideration. I am aware that the official was going to signal 4th down, obviously he was confused, but the play was reviewed. You’re suggesting that the official reviewed the play, saw that the ball did not cross the goal line, and then lied about it…you honestly believe that?
Absolutely horrible, but Seattle’s poor defense set up the trick play TD, not this call. If that play had been run from 15 yards back it still would’ve been a TD. There’s no way to extrapolate and say what would’ve happened, but certainly that call did not preclude Seattle’s safeties from actually playing adequate defense.
There’s absolutely no way to know that.
I really think that Seattle’s poor play was a far greater contributor to their loss than the officiating. They allowed the reverse pass, allowed Ben to scramble and make that throw, gave up a 75 yard run, dropped about 8 passes, and DJ went out of bounds twice on catches that he could’ve easily gotten his feet in on. Add in the high school clock management…these guys did not deserve to win.
The Steeler’s made the plays they needed to make to win the game. That Roethlisberger “scramble, find the line of scrimmage, throw across the body down the field” play was the most impressive play of the game. Willie Parker made an unblocked safety miss and exploded for 75 yards. The beauty of them making those plays is that now they don’t need to blame anyone or make any excuses. They beat Cincy, Indy and Denver on the road. They won the Super Bowl. They are legitimate champions and I am more than satisified that they were the best team in football this year.
[quote]
To deny that the officiating was horrid and effected the outcome is silly.
The NFL has to fix their officiating problem. It ruined their premier event.[/quote]
Read this:
Super bowl is over, and the sports news stations are low on things to report. Sure there were a couple questionable calls, but most of the controversy is just invented to get people to watch tv. And you poor saps are eating it up.
[quote]Moriarty wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to put together a thought-out, coherent response. Do you have a copy of the game that you’re using to review the play? I do not have a copy, so I’ve only seen it twice, once while it was happening and then the replay. From what I remember seeing, the defender made an explosive move beating Locklear to the edge (might have even been offsides), Locklear engaged the defender from the side (not holding), and as the defender was separating Locklear encircled with his arm and appeared to be pulling (holding). I saw this as the play was happening, and before the ball was thrown and before I knew what the outcome of the play would be I pointed the hold out to my friends. I saw this play and made my judgement as it was happening, not based on what Madden and others have said. I do not support the Seahawks, nor the Steelers. If anything, I wanted the Seahawks to win because my mother had money on them.
It seems like you have a copy of the game that you’ve reviewed. Most others seem to be basing their arguments off of what Madden says he saw, which is ridiculous to say the least.
As for the other plays…I played football for years at the wide receiver position. If I had done what DJ did in the endzone, contact the defender with a fully extended arm in plain veiw of the official and then move in the opposite direction towards the ball, I would fully expect to have a flag thrown. The argument that it shouldn’t have been called because it was minor is ridiculous. If that’s the case, Hasselbeck should’ve fumbled because the contact made on him was minor and clearly did not cause him to go down. The rules are the rules and in those two instances they were applied correctly.[/quote]
Actually, and I hope this isn’t too pathetic, I taped the game. Up here in Seattle where our pro teams tend to be mediocre at best, you get kinda excited about going to the friggin super bowl. So yeah, I looked at the play and in my opinion it wasn’t holding. However, I can see if the ref had a crappy angle on the play that he could have mistaken it for a hold.
As for Madden, I like his voice and personality and all that, but I really don’t pay any attention to what he says. It’s not like I could hear his analysis anyway because 15 people were screaming at the tv at that time. Did anyone else laugh there asses off when he asked why the trainers pulled down Bernard’s pants to look at his hamstrings because “they don’t go up that high?”
Also, my neuro professor pointed something out today about the D-Jack penalty that was pretty interesting/funny. When you make a cut while running, you stick your arm out in the opposite direction as an “equilibrium reflex” to keep your balance. I know there was contact during the play (minor contact that was only called after some campaigning from the DB), and I know what the rules state but it seams reasonable to say the contact was incidental. Anyway, it made me laugh that we discussed this in class for about 20 minutes.
Hey, at least us Seattlites can say we had a national champion in recent memory (Seattle Storm, 2004 WNBA champions baby!)…does that count?..no?..oh well.
there really is no way that we’ll know, but a game smartly fixed via officiating would look exactly like this game did.
[quote]BorisTheSpider wrote:
Super bowl is over, and the sports news stations are low on things to report. Sure there were a couple questionable calls, but most of the controversy is just invented to get people to watch tv. And you poor saps are eating it up.[/quote]
You are clueless.
Zzzzzz…
Hopefully the Seahawks don’t crumble in the off-season and lay another ‘SuperBowl Loser’ bomb like the rest of the NFL for the last 5 years.
I really hope they don’t, but if those fans keep whining and crying, ‘the 12th man’ will be remembered as nothing but an excuse factory.
Redemption Seahawks - they were surprised by the speed of the Steelers, they hooked and held all game to keep their QB from getting murdered, and they can’t do that next year.
Steelers changed up their D heading into the playoffs - they didn’t blitz very effective all season until the playoffs started - it threw O-Lines and QBs off.
Maybe next year…
CR
Fixed? How fricking hilarious!
I guess the Colts vs. Steelers was fixed too?
The better team and coaches won, plain and simple.
[quote]RHINO928 wrote:
Fixed? How fricking hilarious![/quote]
yea fixing is impossible
yea because it looked exactly like the Super Bowl
yea because Seattle never got hit with a bunch of massively questionable, point altering calls while Pittsburgh got hit with a lot
[quote]wufwugy wrote:
RHINO928 wrote:
Fixed? How fricking hilarious!
yea fixing is impossible
I guess the Colts vs. Steelers was fixed too?
yea because it looked exactly like the Super Bowl
The better team and coaches won, plain and simple.
yea because Seattle never got hit with a bunch of massively questionable, point altering calls while Pittsburgh got hit with a lot
[/quote]
Seattle got outcoached, outplayed and outclassed.
If the Latte Nation can get over it, MAYBE the Seahawks will make it back. Honestly though, I doubt it.
I can’t believe this crap.
Watching the game, the forward motion of the ball, before he was beaten back by the tackle, had the tip of the ball right on the line.
That’s all it takes.
They reviewed the call, and it was NOT reversed.
I’m sorry you were cheering for Seattle, but holy crap, lighten up a little bit. Sometimes things don’t go the way you want.
That doesn’t mean it was a conspiracy.
Sigh
The refs are favoring the Steelers you say? I guess the Seahawks are corrupt too. Obviously all those dropped passes by their offense were because deep down they wanted Pittsburgh to win also.
Their coach is on Pittsburgh’s side too because of his poor clock management.
Hasselbeck = Steelers fan. He changed those plays to fall right into the Steel Curtain… right?
Face it, Seattle won in every category of the game except one… POINTS! Too bad points are the only factor that matters when the clock runs out.
As far as the touch down goes, the only thing the ball had to pass was the plane. In this circumstance the white line counted as the start of the plane. As long as at one point the football crossed the first blade of white grass immediately following the green of the field it is a TD.
While I don’t agree with this, it is how it was defined in the game, so it stands. Even if it didn?t count, it would have be 4th and goal on the 1inch line. More then likely Pittsburgh would have scored in the next play whether it was 3 or 7. However, take those points away and Pittsburgh would still have won.
Seattle has only their poor play to blame for their loss. They had ample number of chances to move the ball into scoring range but they blundered. Throws out of bounds, dropped passes, two missed field goals? is their kicker secretly on the Steelers side too? Come on now?
Just because the Seahawks dropped some balls does not mean the refs did a good job.
This is the worst officiated game I have ever seen in my 25 plus years watching the NFL.
The league is trying to sweep this under the rug. They should admit the problems and try to fix them.
I have been to at least a dozen NFL games including a Super Bowl.
I was considering getting a satellite dish and the NFL ticket next year.
I will not spend one more dime of my money on the NFL until they make an effort to fix the problem.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Just because the Seahawks dropped some balls does not mean the refs did a good job.
This is the worst officiated game I have ever seen in my 25 plus years watching the NFL.
The league is trying to sweep this under the rug. They should admit the problems and try to fix them.
I have been to at least a dozen NFL games including a Super Bowl.
I was considering getting a satellite dish and the NFL ticket next year.
I will not spend one more dime of my money on the NFL until they make an effort to fix the problem.[/quote]
You’ve missed a lot of football is this is the worst that you have seen. Someone already pointed out the colts vs steelers game where the NFL actually apologized afterwards for the bad calls. After the superbowl they stood by all the decisions that were made.
However, I do agree that some actual effort should be made by the NFL rather then just an apology for bad calls.
Full time refs, not some jobber who comes down and gets paid 1500 per game.
An extra ref or two might help.
Some accountability?
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Just because the Seahawks dropped some balls does not mean the refs did a good job.
This is the worst officiated game I have ever seen in my 25 plus years watching the NFL.
[/quote]
you need to watch more football if this is the worst officiated game you have ever seen.
I nominate you for Hyperbolist of the year for this whole thread. Quit crying in your protein drink already, it’s gotten stupid.
DB
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
This is the worst officiated game I have ever seen in my 25 plus years watching the NFL.
[/quote]
You’re obviously not a Raider’s fan! Welcome to my world!