I don’t think the General Fitness title would work. People tend to think that’s about running or measures of physical fitness and leisure activities. Maybe if we name the forum “I Want to Look Like an Underwear model” it would actually filter out the people that we really don’t want in the bodybuilding forum.
[quote]andersons wrote:
<<< But you’re right, lots of members AND potential newcomers want to look like a Men’s Health/Shape cover model, yet don’t have a forum dedicated to them.[/quote]
Actually right now they are all over the Bodybuilding forum which has undeniably caused oodles of once active members to hardly post at all or disappear altogether.
My hope is some of those people will come back and new like minded ones will participate if there’s a place they can go where they can be safe from the onslaught of those who want nothing more than what’s being advertised in a slim fast commercial.
Not only that, but the slim fast guys would also be safe from ridicule. Beginners could be anybody. A few of them may eventually end up in the Bodybuilding forum.
Let’s face it. TC is right, as well as CT in a recent thread. Most people DO just wanna look good nekkid and they already are and will always be from here on out the majority in the forums on this site as well. Unless we actually define bodybuilding as Jared the Subway guy there may as well be no mention of Bodybuilding here at all anymore if we don’t have someplace folks with high end aspirations can have to themselves.
When I say the Bodybuilding forum is already there I mean by that that it makes the most sense to leave that for people who DO wanna be huge and create a new one for those who don’t. TC was saying a while back he’d like it if some of the vets could help create some of the studs of tomorrow. There will soon be absolutely nobody left to even attempt that and these forum will look like a thoroughgoing weight watchers convention if something doesn’t change.
Come on Professor X (and a some others). This whole discussion grieves me for all the same reasons it does you, but that’s just the way it is. This may even be a chance to have at least one forum come close the good ol days. It’s probably that or nothing.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Come on Professor X (and a some others). This whole discussion grieves me for all the same reasons it does you, but that’s just the way it is. This may even be a chance to have at least one forum come close the good ol days. It’s probably that or nothing. [/quote]
I’ve done some thinking and decided that it wouldn’t be smart to include a general fitness forum. That will bring a whole buttload of people here that we don’t need.
Just take a look at the ‘Rate My Physique’ section. It’s just fucking ridiculous…
Do you want this whole site to be like that? Cause’ I sure don’t. Trying to come on this site and look for decent advice would be like asking a blind man for directions. It reminds me of an entry in Shugart’s blog a while ago called Experts & Other Idiots, you should check it out if you already haven’t. It’s not what we want on this site.
PC
You want to fight the problem that people who aspire mediocrity at best are driving those who want to reach very high targets away by making more room for the “softies”?
I think you’re going in the wrong direction here - if you want the veterans to post more you should be making additional room for THEM and not the other way around.
Lets face it: A kid who wants to know what the best way to get huge biceps is won’t post about that in a “General Fitness” forum even if it’s available - he’ll post in the Bodybuilding forum because getting huge biceps and ripped abz while neglecting everything else falls within his definition of bodybuilding.
If you want the hardcore crowd to grow again then make a special forum for them that can basically act as a “posterchild” and get more people to aspire something extraordinary.
If we a re going to partition the site some more, here is my suggestion:
1)Since weightloss is in the title of the webpage, a diet and weightloss forum. Why? Because those who are going to look just for weightloss ideas and help will go straight there and not (hopefully) post in bodybuilding. etc. This forum can have stickies to the best diets articles and their discussions. Leave the Supps and nutrition forum as is.
-
If not general or look good naked, then add an Advanced Bodybuilding forum. This will signify to those who do not want to be huge that that forum is for those who are.
-
a Logs forum with sub categories
I agree with Tribs goal to route users in the right direction rather than just hope they do not take over.
Many moons ago literally posted the “I dont want to get to huge” comment and was appropriately scolded. While I dont jump in on the flame wars that take place now, for some reason that set me on the right path and let me know this wasnt an overnight thing.
Who knows, maybe I wouldnt have stuck around if you guys didnt give me the tough love.
I do like the idea of a “Fat Loss and Fitness” forum rather than a “General Fitness” because it would filter more people over to it.
[quote]DrLabskaus wrote:
You want to fight the problem that people who aspire mediocrity at best are driving those who want to reach very high targets away by making more room for the “softies”?
I think you’re going in the wrong direction here - if you want the veterans to post more you should be making additional room for THEM and not the other way around.
Lets face it: A kid who wants to know what the best way to get huge biceps is won’t post about that in a “General Fitness” forum even if it’s available - he’ll post in the Bodybuilding forum because getting huge biceps and ripped abz while neglecting everything else falls within his definition of bodybuilding.
If you want the hardcore crowd to grow again then make a special forum for them that can basically act as a “posterchild” and get more people to aspire something extraordinary.[/quote]
Well said. I doubt most of the more serious guys who left are actually coming back. They damn sure won’t if the population of people who want to avoid hard work grows that much.
If this keeps up, someone should really do away with the black background.
I’m thinking a nice mauve or baby blue would set the mood off better than a Barry White cd.
Yowza.
It’s a damn website. It’s not like these people are coming in your house and pissing in the corner, and if you view T-Nation like that then you need to get out more.
Do what we’ve always done, which is flame the shit out of’em until they leave. Not seeing the big problem here.
[quote]ProfessorCHAOS96 wrote:
Just take a look at the ‘Rate My Physique’ section. It’s just fucking ridiculous…
PC[/quote]
That’s why I don’t go to that section. Imagine if it wasn’t a seperate section and those posts were floating around the Begginer’s section and the Bodybuilding Section.
I agree with Trib. Remember the “I do want to get HUGE” thread? There were maybe 10 or 15 positive posts before the wanna be underwear models came in to assert that “well, T-Nation isn’t just about that,” and “my goals are just as valid, blah blah blah.”
Then the thread become 200+ posts of the Professor yelling at them for coming to a bodybuilding thread in the bodybuilding forum to assert the fact that they aren’t bodybuilders. While yelling at children and idiots can be fun, it gets old, and brought down what should have been a very positive thread.
That’s why we have a kids table at family get togethers, so adults can enjoy their food and have an adult conversation without the damn kids butting in every two minutes. Maybe everyone would be happier if we could just drop the kids off at Chucky Cheese and be rid of them, but we can’t, they’re here and we have to deal with them.
As far as Biotest is concerned, people want this place to be hardcore, but the hardcore market is a very small market. I’m sure Biotest doesn’t want a small market, and doesn’t want the aspiring underwear models leave, and I don’t blame them. Biotest deserves a large market, and I hope Biotest succeeds.
I think the forums would be a better place for everybody if the different interests had their own corners and respected each other’s space. It would be easier to enforce those boundaries if they were clearly defined.
I’m pretty much old school, I respect those that are hardcore and leave them to theirs. I posted once on the bodybuilding forum, by mistake it was a thread that appeared on the must discussed topics forum, I got flamed and realized what the forum was for . I now go to the bodybuilding forum only to read and seek out the information I need.
I do bodybuild but not hardcore. My goals are different, but the information and advice that I find on this site are helping me reach my goals as no other site can. I’m not sure a general fitness forum would work or not. I’m sure not against it in anyway, and would most likely post on it and it could even make it easier for me to find those that have the knowledge and experience I’m looking for.
I do agree with the OP that from a business point of view, concidering the nature of capitalism this site is going to expand. Therefore making it more selective in means of more generalized forum is the future.
I totally understand the view of the veterans on this site hateing to see their haven violated by newbies and wannabes, but the world evolves and so will this site. Maybe making the bodybuilder forum a “hardcore bodybuilding forum” would help make it understood just what it is. There are those out there that think lifting any weights is concidered bodybuilding.
I found my forums on this site and have no reason the try and enlighten those with great goals and knowledge in other areas. I do however read their forums and learn more about their way of life and there by gain greater respect for their art.
[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
ProfessorCHAOS96 wrote:
Just take a look at the ‘Rate My Physique’ section. It’s just fucking ridiculous…
PC
That’s why I don’t go to that section. Imagine if it wasn’t a seperate section and those posts were floating around the Begginer’s section and the Bodybuilding Section.
I agree with Trib. Remember the “I do want to get HUGE” thread? There were maybe 10 or 15 positive posts before the wanna be underwear models came in to assert that “well, T-Nation isn’t just about that,” and “my goals are just as valid, blah blah blah.” Then the thread become 200+ posts of the Professor yelling at them for coming to a bodybuilding thread in the bodybuilding forum to assert the fact that they aren’t bodybuilders. While yelling at children and idiots can be fun, it gets old, and brought down what should have been a very positive thread.
That’s why we have a kids table at family get togethers, so adults can enjoy their food and have an adult conversation without the damn kids butting in every two minutes. Maybe everyone would be happier if we could just drop the kids off at Chucky Cheese and be rid of them, but we can’t, they’re here and we have to deal with them.
As far as Biotest is concerned, people want this place to be hardcore, but the hardcore market is a very small market. I’m sure Biotest doesn’t want a small market, and doesn’t want the aspiring underwear models leave, and I don’t blame them. Biotest deserves a large market, and I hope Biotest succeeds. I think the forums would be a better place for everybody if the different interests had their own corners and respected each other’s space. It would be easier to enforce those boundaries if they were clearly defined. [/quote]
This is EXACTLY what I’m saying.
The underwear models aren’t leaving and the population IS going to grow. Further, their money is just as good as as everybody else’s and no business can be expected to turn away customers because some of the other people in the store find them irritating.
In other words the underwear models are welcome… period. We can stop debating that because they are here to stay. The question therefore is do we live with them somehow or do we leave?
I’d rather find a way for the most people possible to be here which is another way of saying for the guys with large goals to stay because the rest will be here no matter what now.
At it’s most basic level this is nothing more than dividing the forums to reflect the new mission statement, however that’s best done if not with a general fitness forum.
One thing is clear. If something doesn’t change, in another year these entire forums WILL be general fitness forums anyway regardless of what their titles are.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Uncle Gabby wrote:
ProfessorCHAOS96 wrote:
Just take a look at the ‘Rate My Physique’ section. It’s just fucking ridiculous…
PC
That’s why I don’t go to that section. Imagine if it wasn’t a seperate section and those posts were floating around the Begginer’s section and the Bodybuilding Section.
I agree with Trib. Remember the “I do want to get HUGE” thread? There were maybe 10 or 15 positive posts before the wanna be underwear models came in to assert that “well, T-Nation isn’t just about that,” and “my goals are just as valid, blah blah blah.” Then the thread become 200+ posts of the Professor yelling at them for coming to a bodybuilding thread in the bodybuilding forum to assert the fact that they aren’t bodybuilders. While yelling at children and idiots can be fun, it gets old, and brought down what should have been a very positive thread.
That’s why we have a kids table at family get togethers, so adults can enjoy their food and have an adult conversation without the damn kids butting in every two minutes. Maybe everyone would be happier if we could just drop the kids off at Chucky Cheese and be rid of them, but we can’t, they’re here and we have to deal with them.
As far as Biotest is concerned, people want this place to be hardcore, but the hardcore market is a very small market. I’m sure Biotest doesn’t want a small market, and doesn’t want the aspiring underwear models leave, and I don’t blame them. Biotest deserves a large market, and I hope Biotest succeeds. I think the forums would be a better place for everybody if the different interests had their own corners and respected each other’s space. It would be easier to enforce those boundaries if they were clearly defined.
This is EXACTLY what I’m saying.
The underwear models aren’t leaving and the population IS going to grow. Further, their money is just as good as as everybody else’s and no business can be expected to turn away customers because some of the other people in the store find them irritating. In other words the underwear models are welcome… period. We can stop debating that because they are here to stay. The question therefore is do we live with them somehow or do we leave?
I’d rather find a way for the most people possible to be here which is another way of saying for the guys with large goals to stay because the rest will be here no matter what now.
At it’s most basic level this is nothing more than dividing the forums to reflect the new mission statement, however that’s best done if not with a general fitness forum.
One thing is clear. If something doesn’t change, in another year these entire forums WILL be general fitness forums anyway regardless of what their titles are.[/quote]
I agree with you Trib. No matter what they are here to stay and many of the older memebers are coming less and posting even less. It is kinda sad…but it is what is happening. Hopefully a solution can be found before this becomes the new Men’s Health.
[quote]firebug9 wrote:
I agree with you Trib. No matter what they are here to stay and many of the older memebers are coming less and posting even less. It is kinda sad…but it is what is happening. Hopefully a solution can be found before this becomes the new Men’s Health.
[/quote]
If no one is going to put forth any effort to maintain what this site was originally about, there are no solutions. It will slowly happen and anyone more serious than “look, I benched the bar” will just leave.
I logged on originally to communicate with other people who were serious weight lifters. I didn’t log on so that I could read thousands of threads that could have been saved by simply using the search function or freaking looking around before they post first.
Honestly, let’s just make a link to bb.com and use that as the other forum. It is going to happen anyway.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
firebug9 wrote:
I agree with you Trib. No matter what they are here to stay and many of the older memebers are coming less and posting even less. It is kinda sad…but it is what is happening. Hopefully a solution can be found before this becomes the new Men’s Health.
If no one is going to put forth any effort to maintain what this site was originally about, there are no solutions. It will slowly happen and anyone more serious than “look, I benched the bar” will just leave.
I logged on originally to communicate with other people who were serious weight lifters. I didn’t log on so that I could read thousands of threads that could have been saved by simply using the search function or freaking looking around before they post first.
Honestly, let’s just make a link to bb.com and use that as the other forum. It is going to happen anyway.[/quote]
I’m holding out hope that maybe at least one forum can be an oasis of what this site was originally all about. I thought about this for a few days before starting this thread. If I didn’t think it was possible I wouldn’t have bothered. I come here for the same reasons you do. I guess I’m viewing this whole thing from a surrendered posture because that is the stark reality of the situation.
Rather than just hand the forums wholesale to the ab worshippers I’m hoping we can have an outpost left to hold down the fort for ultimate personal physique achievement in some manner. You’re shovelin shit against the tide Doc, it ain’t happnin. I see the next best thing as a forum where we can feel free to tell Percy to take his egg whites and bean sprouts to the other forum.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I’m thinking a nice mauve or baby blue would set the mood off better than a Barry White cd.[/quote]
Actually, I agree. Baby blue would go great with the Soy Award I am planning on nominating this thread for.
In all seriousness, though, when, exactly, are you guys going to STOP pandering to the “look good naked” crowd? After they make a new “General Fitness” forum? A lot of you make it sound like that’s going to plug the dam up, but to me it sounds more like dumping gasoline on the fire. “General Fitness” sounds like the type of thing some weekend warrior would type into Google after his doctor told him to start walking 3x a week for his McDonald’s-induced high blood pressure - not exactly the demographic I’m sure we all want running amuck around here. It’s only a matter of time before they discover the V-Diet and spill over into other forums.
I stopped seriously reading the articles a long time ago. I’ve long since replaced my chuckles with sighs when viewing every 140 pounder’s V-Diet thread (you know, to lose those love handles before the “bulk”). To say that the Rate My Physique forum is “just fucking ridiculous” is the understatement of the decade.
Where is it going to end, exactly? When they start sending out free tampons with every order of Metabolic Drive? At what point are we going to decide enough is enough? After anyone worth reading on these forums has had enough and jumped ship?
I get that it is hard to hold onto the concept of this site being for “hardcore” lifters with the Admin stabbing us in the back with every attempt at expanding, but…come on. The Rate My Physique forum was one of the earlier attempts at making room for these fucks - can you honestly say that THAT is a success?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
If no one is going to put forth any effort to maintain what this site was originally about, there are no solutions. It will slowly happen and anyone more serious than “look, I benched the bar” will just leave.
I logged on originally to communicate with other people who were serious weight lifters. I didn’t log on so that I could read thousands of threads that could have been saved by simply using the search function or freaking looking around before they post first.
Honestly, let’s just make a link to bb.com and use that as the other forum. It is going to happen anyway.[/quote]
No one is saying that we shouldn’t defend our corner. What I am saying is that the others need to have their corner, so that when they wonder into ours, instead of having to argue with them for days on end, we can just say “No, go over there.”
I would also expect the mods to be more aggressive, when those people wander into a bodybuilding thread in the bodybuilding forum with their “Well I don’t want to get bulky and my goals are just as valid as yours! Waaaaaagh!!!” their posts will be removed.
As far as people asking “Whey vs Casein” 8 times a day, we should be allowed to ridicule these people mercilessly. I try to do my part, but the mods delete my posts.
Interesting discussion.
The way I see it, some see this as a discussion of segmenting the website based on goals/purpose of use, whereas others see it as a discussion as to the identity of the site. This is really similar to the discussions months ago about the establishment of MWA.
I don’t have an answer, but what about some sort of way to “redirect” the people in question. Scanning the current forums, I’d say many of the people of “general health” would fit in the Beginners forum. However, we know nobody is a beginner because in high school they knew this guy that trained and he told them… so they know what to do. So is there there a way to redirect them to the Beginners forum maybe through a name change?
Alternatively, what about rather than a “General fitness” forum, creating an “Athletic” forum. This could possibly be done by removing the word “Photos” from the “Physique and Performance Photos” forum.
These opinions more reflect the segregation issue rather than the site direction, but I feel the impact can be minimized through careful selection of wording.
And if that doesn’t work, we just flame the pansies!
Just my thoughts.
Or, as an alternative…
I’ll just buy my supps from Biotest and check out other forums that are geared more toward my interests.
I think I’ll go train while you guys figure this out.
[quote]Ruggerlife wrote:
Interesting discussion.
The way I see it, some see this as a discussion of segmenting the website based on goals/purpose of use, whereas others see it as a discussion as to the identity of the site. This is really similar to the discussions months ago about the establishment of MWA.
I don’t have an answer, but what about some sort of way to “redirect” the people in question. Scanning the current forums, I’d say many of the people of “general health” would fit in the Beginners forum. However, we know nobody is a beginner because in high school they knew this guy that trained and he told them… so they know what to do. So is there there a way to redirect them to the Beginners forum maybe through a name change?
Alternatively, what about rather than a “General fitness” forum, creating an “Athletic” forum. This could possibly be done by removing the word “Photos” from the “Physique and Performance Photos” forum.
These opinions more reflect the segregation issue rather than the site direction, but I feel the impact can be minimized through careful selection of wording.
And if that doesn’t work, we just flame the pansies!
Just my thoughts.
[/quote]
I like the idea of a sports training forum. A lot of football questions and the like get posted in beginners.