Stupid Pigs (Cops)!

Off Topic
61

[quote]sugarfree wrote:
spamme wrote:
Bottom line, when someone collapses and is minimally responsive, it’s time to rush that person to the hospital.

If you think he is faking, and you do not rush this person to the hospital for that reason or any other, then I assume you are taking responsibility for whatever happens to him.

I would like to know the time difference between when he keeled over and when he was rushed to the hospital.

Good point.

It didn’t look like a beating to me. I think calling it a beating is BS. I’ve been manhandled worse than that in Jr High. They did not beat the kid.

But the kid died, at their hands. By their actions, or lack of action. The nurse walked away. Was she told to back off? Who knows. It’s clear that they did not take the state of his condition seriously.

If their scared straight boot camp cannot be run by qualified and knowledgeable people. It should be stopped.[/quote]

Good points. Especially the last one.

62

[quote]Beatnik wrote:
How much phsyical exertion does it take to make someone with his condition collapse? Once, twice around the feild? While i am a huge fan of excercise till your legs give out i dont think enforcing that on a population that may have any range of issues is appropriate either. The military tests for it, but they train people in that range.

If the range for sickle cell is low then why is it enforced?

i know, i know… im a Whinny arse liberal, but if people are proning to dropping and dying… then you dont institutionalise it. Atleast work up to it.[/quote]

The amount of exercise that causes intravascular sickling and hemolysis in those with sickle cell trait (which the medical examiner was likely describing by saying internal bleeding from sickle cell) is described as “Severe exertion”. The heat exaustion and dehydration causes sickling and destruction of red blood cells and volume loss. So essentially they die of loss of intravascular red blood cells and volume which would be described in lay terms as “internal bleeding”.

People with sickle cell trait do not die from self-exercise, because when they start feeling exausted, thirsty, nauseated, loopy, they instinctively stop, drink, and rest, and usually long before they even get to that point.

The military discovered (again not discussing current policy as I do not know it) you can put a sickle cell trait person through boot camp, providing you recognize very early symptoms of heat exaustion and treat early and aggressively. Pushing someone with sickle cell trait beyond those early symptoms (an individual instinctively would not go beyond this level on his own) is what can lead to death. Many with sickle cell trait pushed to that level would still not die, as many did not in the military prior to screening, but clearly some can and did.

But, again, it will be interesting to see what the investigation shows.

63

EDIT: This was supposed to be in response to PGA’s last post, forgot to quote it though:

I don’t have those answers, no one does by just watching the video. All I’m saying is that I have been involved in scenarios that appeared ugly to those who were unaware of the preceeding incidents. But I hope they get what’s coming to them if they’re at fault.

Not that you have done this bone some people on this thread are making some huge generalizations about cops. Do that same thing to a religious group or a race of people and all hell breaks loose. Cops are like any other demographic of society, you’re gonna find some dicks. And the dicks get the press. But I guarantee you a vast majority are good people who take their job seriously and defend people’s rights.

64

[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:
AceQHounddog wrote:
Until you get a job that requires you do have to take decisive action with only a split-second to make that decision and act to save yourself or someone else, and then have that action reviewed and critqued for months by people who will never be in that situation, then you have no idea what you are talking about and are talking out of your ass.

You dont need to be a cop to be put in a defensive situation where you have to judge what to do within a split second.

First off: Driving. Being put in defensive situations happens all the time. I was almost pushed into oncoming traffic by a bus today because he didnt look in his blind spot and he decided to switch lanes. I had about a second to brake really fucking hard, or swerve into oncoming traffic, or have a bus drive into me.

Secondly: If I see anyone raping my girlfriend/beating up my little brother/or doing either to any random person, for that matter. And I step in and beat the fuck out of the person assaulting the innocent person, I’m doing it in self defense. I’m pretty sure I’ll be charged with assault myself, but a judge would throw it out since it was in “self defense” or at least in the well being of another.

Either way, none of this still changes the fact that the kid was unnecessarily struck (since, apparently, he wasn’t beaten.) And then fell to the ground, and wasn’t given medical treatment nearly as fast as it should have been given.

I agree with jsbrook. The kid was under the cops’ supervision, and was obviously their responsibility. Whether they beat him or not, he still died in their hands.

vroom wrote:

I’d suggest that if the police weren’t so busy abusing their authority that less people would resent them for it.

I agree here too. I’ve seen a bunch of cops be dicks for no reason at all. I’ve driven behind cops that will be approaching a red light, turn their sirens on so they can drive thru, then turn them off halfway down the block.

My friends drink (which is obviously illeagle since they’re underage) but they’ve been hit (not necessarily beaten) but have had completely unnecessary force imposed on them for no reason at all.

Alot (not all) are on a huge power trip and need to get the fuck off.[/quote]

Wow, first I said DECISIVE, not defensive. Fascinating scenarios, though.

I think the term “Obviously” is a little strong here. To say because the kid was in their custody that it was obviously the cops’ fault is moronic, unless you have personal knowledge of what occurred besides what was on the tape. Again, not defending them and they should pay if they were wrong, but no one here can tell based solely on that video.

A cop going through a red light with lights/siren only to shut down half a block later is very commonplace. If you get a call requiring a a rapid response, you use the authority given you to get there in a timely manner (As you would want if you were the one calling the cops). But often the call is changed or handled by other officers before you get there, you shut down and continue in a normal manner. That is done for the safety of the public. Was this the case when you saw it? Who knows, but to automatically assume it was an abuse of authority is just ignorant.

Lastly, the video was llike six minutes long. How fast does an ambulance arrive where you live? That’s pretty quick for an emergency medical response.

65

Ace, the problem with cops being dicks, as you put it, is that you cannot avoid their authority.

Attempting to do so, or resisting, simply puts you in greater danger.

A bad cop, or potentially a group as shown in this video, is a serious issue because unless someone is videotaping the situation, there is no recourse for the victim. Even with the videotape, there is only going to be recourse if you survive the encounter.

66

[quote]vroom wrote:
Ace, the problem with cops being dicks, as you put it, is that you cannot avoid their authority.[/quote]

Exactly. If you defend yourself, you will wind up in court for “assaulting a police officer” with an officer’s word against yours.

67

So, some of you think I’m some crazy misery loving psycho. Well, in my occupation, part of my duty is law enforcement. Yes, there are some low-life “humans” in that profession, as there are in every profession. A more experienced and knowledgeable person can also commit an indecency against someone and make it less apparent.

I am not justifying anything, but I am saying that the whining on the kid’s behalf may (MAY) be hasty. Who fucking knows! I’m sure someone will keep tabs on that story around here. Hey, if you think I’m insensitive, you’re correct. I’m also an asshole. But I don’t make exceptions for any-fucking-body, and I’m fair about it too. Shit happens, and it obviously happened to that kid. It might happen to you, too.

68

[quote]vroom wrote:
Ace, the problem with cops being dicks, as you put it, is that you cannot avoid their authority.

Attempting to do so, or resisting, simply puts you in greater danger.

A bad cop, or potentially a group as shown in this video, is a serious issue because unless someone is videotaping the situation, there is no recourse for the victim. Even with the videotape, there is only going to be recourse if you survive the encounter.[/quote]

I agree with this, resisting is never the answer. But there’s a huge difference between cops being dicks and cops being criminals. A cop could be rude but that’s not against the law and as long as no one’s rights are violated, the best you could do is make a complaint against the officer violating the department’s deportment policy (most agencies have one).

A cop who is a criminal is a different story. They have to be caught like every other criminal gets caught: evidence. Cops nowadays need to carry digital audio recorders to record citizen contacts. This is due to the thousands of false allegations of misconduct that come in every year, because people know most departments will settle as opposed to fighting a lengthy civil battle. If you have the misfortune of having that much contact with a crooked cop, record that shit.

My issue is when people are misinformed and then want an immediate explanation of facts before they comply with officers’ orders, when the officer is completely justified in what he/she is requesting be done. That’s how people end up getting slammed, who then complain of brutality, when all they had to do was comply and then ask questions later. That’s a separate issue, though.

Going back to the origianl issue, comments regarding surviving police encounters are very dramatic for law-abiding people. Even is a cop is a dick or even heavy handed being killed by a cop is a little over the top.

I’m sure is has happened, don’t get me wrong. But how many people out there have actually personally had a violent police encounter that was of no fault of their own. Everyone seems to know second and third hand stories, and everyone’s got a friend who had this or that happen, but few people relate any first hand stories. And even then, on the internet there’s no way of deciding right and wrong with only one side of any story. That’s why I usually don’t participate in such debates.

The bottom line in all my ramblings is this: I’ve worked with and for several police agencies at the local, state (California), and federal level. I have never worked with any LE Officer who has openly or intentionally done anything abusive or in vioaltion of civil rights. Does it happen? Absolutely. Does it happen often? Nope. But when it does you hear about it so much it seems commonplace. ANy attempt to publicize the good we do is met with, “So what it’s your fucking job!” That’s why I’ve devloped the attitude that you can’t please everyone so I try to resolve all issues verbally, but in the end I’ll follow the law and department policy and when someone complains I’ll let the court sort it out. And every time it’s gone in my favor. Were the cops in this video trying to kill someone? Doubt it. Were they too rough? Maybe, but I’ll reserve my condemnation until an investigation is done. And anyone who thinks IA investigations are taken lightly is kidding themselves. Most IA guys would prosecute their own mother.

69

[quote]AlbertaBeef wrote:
vroom wrote:
Ace, the problem with cops being dicks, as you put it, is that you cannot avoid their authority.

Exactly. If you defend yourself, you will wind up in court for “assaulting a police officer” with an officer’s word against yours.

[/quote]

If your only form of defense is physical you’re in for a long hard life, slick. If you have had that many police contacts that go badly for you, my guess is you’re the problem. Good luck with that.

70

The only stupid one here is the one who threaded this. “Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups.” You can’t generalize a whole nation of officers by what one or some group of drill instructors had done to another man. Are you rascist too? Are you sexist? Do you hate all people that match a description of another.

Now, the kid. From the video its very hard to tell whats going on. All I can make out from the video is someone that just can’t walk. I don’t know how he got that way. I didn’t see any blows. And from the medical report, it didn’t have any negligence to it. As far as we can tell, the kid had a medical condition that was bothered by this boot camp routine.

Its a very sad video and hard to watch. Personaly I wished I hadn’t seen it. I thought I was gonna see a “Rodney King”. And I’m sorry for what happened to him. But, you jump to conclusions too early. Those “Pigs” will be the first ones you call next time you run into a crimal and have a situation. Are you gonna protect yourself from all the murderers in the world? Or are you gonna take them on yourself and deal with all the hell the police officers go thur on a daily basis. They get the luxury or dealing with the slime and scum of the earth day in and day out just to protect someone that calls them a “Pig”. You have no respect. Next time you hit one of your goldballs in a lake “PGA”, go jump in after it and stay down there until you come up with some love for the Police. I’d hate to know how you feel about the other groups of people that serve and protect this country everyday.

Army-Navy-Marines-Air Force-Coast Guard-National Guard & so on.

Siemper Fidelis

71

I am a little confused after watching the video. Some are calling it a beating by 6-8 cops against a 14 year old boy. I saw a few strikes to muscle mass areas of the body (trying to hit a minimally damaging pressure point area) administered by one of the camp guards against a 14 year old who is significantly taller than several of the officers. It seemed like a pretty commonly taught tactic used mostly against defensively resisting subjects. His level of resistance is not completely clear in the video, but pressure point techniques are used when officers are trying to avoid injuring the subject. There were a few other officers in the video who mostly stood around and did nothing or tried to pull the subject to his feet.

Obviously some people are so crazed by their beliefs that they see something completely different. The tape quality is bad, but to label this a beating is really pushing it. To label the 14 year old as a little boy is wrong. However, it was obvious to me that he was limp and they did seem to simply stand around looking confused. In my experience they probably felt that the subject was faking uconsciousness which is not out of the ordinary. From the video it was obvious that they didnt do anything physical that would have likely killed him.

Am I missing something? The worse thing I saw was that they did not seem to understand that the subject was actually unconscious or nearly so for an excessive period of time.

72

Do we have any info on the type of excercise they were doing. See this is the thing, i dont think the level of excercise in these places is going to reach the levels to make someone drop.

Is the attention this boy was receiving because he didnt feel he couldnt excercise anymore followed by the time honoured “stop being a pussy” treatment? maybe mouthed off back?

If it takes extreme exhaustion, and you have to be pushed to it… how did he die of it? assuming these places arnt that physically demanding? maybe they are i dont know.

Agreed! Iam more interested in how it happened then the social issues. Im allways amazed that sometimes small things occur and you can just die on the spot. Hit your head, get punched in the chest, and keel over.

73

I was local officer in this area for years and the Boot Camp in Bay county had a 92% success rate for non repeat offenders.
These kids were all up on felony charges too.

It has a high turn over on employment because at the time starting pay was $7 an hour.

74

[quote]Mr. Push Ups wrote:
The only stupid one here is the one who threaded this. “Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups.” You can’t generalize a whole nation of officers by what one or some group of drill instructors had done to another man. Are you rascist too? Are you sexist? Do you hate all people that match a description of another.

Now, the kid. From the video its very hard to tell whats going on. All I can make out from the video is someone that just can’t walk. I don’t know how he got that way. I didn’t see any blows. And from the medical report, it didn’t have any negligence to it. As far as we can tell, the kid had a medical condition that was bothered by this boot camp routine.

Its a very sad video and hard to watch. Personaly I wished I hadn’t seen it. I thought I was gonna see a “Rodney King”. And I’m sorry for what happened to him. But, you jump to conclusions too early. Those “Pigs” will be the first ones you call next time you run into a crimal and have a situation. Are you gonna protect yourself from all the murderers in the world? Or are you gonna take them on yourself and deal with all the hell the police officers go thur on a daily basis. They get the luxury or dealing with the slime and scum of the earth day in and day out just to protect someone that calls them a “Pig”. You have no respect. Next time you hit one of your goldballs in a lake “PGA”, go jump in after it and stay down there until you come up with some love for the Police. I’d hate to know how you feel about the other groups of people that serve and protect this country everyday.

Army-Navy-Marines-Air Force-Coast Guard-National Guard & so on.

Siemper Fidelis[/quote]

Wow you’re as intelligent as you were in the chest building thread. No where did I say ALL COPS. You’re a very sad human being. Do us all a favor and go back to the other forums you troll at, homie.

75

[quote]vroom wrote:
Ace, the problem with cops being dicks, as you put it, is that you cannot avoid their authority.

Attempting to do so, or resisting, simply puts you in greater danger.

A bad cop, or potentially a group as shown in this video, is a serious issue because unless someone is videotaping the situation, there is no recourse for the victim. Even with the videotape, there is only going to be recourse if you survive the encounter.[/quote]

I couldn’t have said it better vroom.

In a free society people need to be assured that they are going to be treated fairly by the Police.

There is never a reason for a Police Officer to use “excessive” force in subduing a suspect.

76

I personally believe its bullshit to say anyone murdered this kid. First off, the way they dealt with him would not result in death to a normal human being, but it was obvious they were not experienced in dealing with the situation, and they need better training to deal with these types of things.

I do think they should take people seriously in terms of health complaints and should have dealt with the kid not as harshly but I dont see how anyone can be accused of killing him, because what they did, did not result in any broken bones and would not kill a normal person, so I dont see how you can blame them. I think you can blame the parents for raising a delinquint child and this all would have been prevented.

77

[quote]djoh615893 wrote:
Some of you are being first rate fucking retards about this one. A majority of states offer the boot camps as an alternative to kids getting more fucked up in a prison environment. It’s tough. It’s intended that way. It is intended to instill self control, discipline, and some semblence of work ethic. And shit happens too. When I was in boot camp, people died too. Asthma, diabetes, etc killed them because the sudden stress brought it out. You can’t predict that kind of shit and lots of people don’t know what the hell it looks like, especially when kids are always trying to feign sickness or injury to skate by with less effort. Quite your fucking crying. Life is unfair. Deal with it.[/quote]

ho raw master chief

78

[quote]PGA200X wrote:
Mr. Push Ups wrote:
The only stupid one here is the one who threaded this. “Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups.” You can’t generalize a whole nation of officers by what one or some group of drill instructors had done to another man. Are you rascist too? Are you sexist? Do you hate all people that match a description of another.

Now, the kid. From the video its very hard to tell whats going on. All I can make out from the video is someone that just can’t walk. I don’t know how he got that way. I didn’t see any blows. And from the medical report, it didn’t have any negligence to it. As far as we can tell, the kid had a medical condition that was bothered by this boot camp routine.

Its a very sad video and hard to watch. Personaly I wished I hadn’t seen it. I thought I was gonna see a “Rodney King”. And I’m sorry for what happened to him. But, you jump to conclusions too early. Those “Pigs” will be the first ones you call next time you run into a crimal and have a situation. Are you gonna protect yourself from all the murderers in the world? Or are you gonna take them on yourself and deal with all the hell the police officers go thur on a daily basis. They get the luxury or dealing with the slime and scum of the earth day in and day out just to protect someone that calls them a “Pig”. You have no respect. Next time you hit one of your goldballs in a lake “PGA”, go jump in after it and stay down there until you come up with some love for the Police. I’d hate to know how you feel about the other groups of people that serve and protect this country everyday.

Army-Navy-Marines-Air Force-Coast Guard-National Guard & so on.

Siemper Fidelis

Wow you’re as intelligent as you were in the chest building thread. No where did I say ALL COPS. You’re a very sad human being. Do us all a favor and go back to the other forums you troll at, homie.[/quote]

O.K. I will, after you do a real chest exercise.

Take 2 dumbbells that will roll rather easily. do push ups with them in by flying the weights together (similiar to chad waterburys slide push ups)…and if your a real man put 100 pounds on your back. This will destroy your chest better than any weak ass exercise that you use. You’re nothing but a bird chest pussy. You wouldn’t know how to work a chest if the answers landed on your face and started to wiggle.

Learn the biomechanical action of the chest before you put your inferior knowledge in next time. Pressing is the inferior action. Flying is the superior action. To do both in the same motion makes for something thats far superior and too advanced for the likes of you. But Hey, who is the ignorant one anyway who calls cops “Pigs”.

79

[quote]Mr. Push Ups wrote:
O.K. I will, after you do a real chest exercise.

Take 2 dumbbells that will roll rather easily. do push ups with them in by flying the weights together (similiar to chad waterburys slide push ups)…and if your a real man put 100 pounds on your back. This will destroy your chest better than any weak ass exercise that you use. You’re nothing but a bird chest pussy. You wouldn’t know how to work a chest if the answers landed on your face and started to wiggle.

Learn the biomechanical action of the chest before you put your inferior knowledge in next time. Pressing is the inferior action. Flying is the superior action. To do both in the same motion makes for something thats far superior and too advanced for the likes of you. But Hey, who is the ignorant one anyway who calls cops “Pigs”.[/quote]

HA! You really are a genius arent ya? You lack the intelligence to read any post. You sit there and contrive these vendetta posts that make you look like a complete fool. You go off on these tangents when you post COMPLETELY disregarding what you are replying to.

Let me guess, you sit there and scream at the keyboard as you type to get your point across further? You are a goof and add nothing to these forums. You have been owned since you began cancering these forums. Please, the next time you attempt to post, do it in a manner where you actually read the whole post. Dont pick single words and making your own sentence and creating what you wished the poster had written.

80

[quote]ZEB wrote:

I couldn’t have said it better vroom.

In a free society people need to be assured that they are going to be treated fairly by the Police.

No, all “people” don’t need to be assured they will be treated “fairly”. only people who are not commiting ANY crime need to be assured they will be treated “fairly”. although, what is fair? what’s fair to you is probably not fair to me. i think fair would be to assume that everybody is suspicious until they see otherwise. how can we expect police officers to judge everybody as equal, when our intent is not. i would prefer to be hassled a little to ensure that the criminals are caught. and i get hassled all the time. if they hassle everybody like they hassle me i won’t have to carry my gun anymore. with a permit of course.:wink:

There is never a reason for a Police Officer to use “excessive” force in subduing a suspect.
[/quote]

what the fuck? have you ever dealt with an angry person all fucked up off pcp, or meth. you would be suprised at the amount of force needed to subdue someone in that state.

imagine not knowing when somebody is a fuckin nut and wants to kill you. the min a cop let’s thier guard down, they usually end up hurt or dead. people don’t realize that. wake up. this is not to say that he officers in the video were in ANY kind of danger, but i did not see any blatent abuse. i am slighty concerned about the number of officers though, seems a bit excessive.