In the book that is the suggestion for Category 1 but, PSMF dieting was created for the obese like 50 yrs ago.
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Amen. Heart disease is the number one killer of both men and women in the world. Dedicated cardio seems pretty important as a result. I was like you – thought of it for fat loss mostly until just the last few years. Now the fact that it helps me stay leaner is something I see as an incidental, side benefit.
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How to set yourself up for success towards any goal - not just dieting.
I know Mike Israetel sometimes has a casual relationship with the truth… this is not one of those times.
Seriously, I recommend this video for ANY long-term goals. Bonus points for fat loss goals.
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Bench Press Technique
What is “Leg Drive”? If you can’t answer that, then you probably haven’t watched this video.
Disclaimer: My bench press is shit and will probably always be shit. Just follow the advice of the >500lbs bench pressers in the video 
Why do you say that?
So I agree with about 80% of the stuff he says - I still watch quite a few of his videos. In fact, I like his diet advice SO much that I parroted it in a thread I made.
His diet and training advice are solid for folks ranging from newbies all the way to advanced, but this advice really starts to fall off when it comes to folks who are reaching or at the far end of muscular development and leanness.
His contributions towards the Stimulus to Fatigue Ratio stuff is top notch and accurately applies to pretty much the whole spectrum of trainees from beginners to elites. If you’re getting bad stimuli and fatiguing the hell out of yourself to do it - I don’t see a good argument to use this/these exercises at ANY point in muscular development.
For most folks, I’d say that following his advice on pretty much everything is a good idea. For those who are very close to, or beyond their natural genetic potential - I think his training and diet stuff starts to not line up as well anymore. Leaving Reps In Reserve (RIR) works fine, up to a point. Following the 1-1.5g/lb BW protein intake works fine, up to a point.
I don’t have an interest in discrediting the dude, because his advice is solid for most who will ever join this forum or stumble onto this thread. But if your FFMI is very near or beyond 30, and you can count all 6 abs without flexing/lighting? You may want to find a different guru.
FWIW, I still have a man crush on Mike Israetel. The Renaissance Diet 2.0 is still my favorite diet book, Renaissance Woman is probably the single most valuable book I could recommend to female athletes, and all the RP cook books are stellar. At the end of the day, he is a youtuber who has to make new content, and all of his biggest contributions are already out there… so he has a slight tendency to twist certain things in his free content to align with his paid content.
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Gotcha (and thanks for the detail). “Casual relationship with the truth” sounded more serious than “not universally applicable” or “for-profit,” but I get you now.
I also enjoy his content, but mostly because I think he’s hilarious.
I’m really failing into Jeff Nippard’s thoughts lately too. He’s a very practical dude, which is funny because he’s the “science” guy.
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Take a look at Layne Norton (biolayne) if you’re really into the sciencey stuff. Some of his videos are posted at the beginning of this thread.
Nippard isn’t bad, but his advice only really applies to natural folks. Enhanced, or even those on TRT need more nuanced guidance. Still, solid dude, solid content within those confines.
Hot take:
T Nation tossing Paul Carter aside was one of their biggest mistakes. His content is some of the best, most accurate stuff I’ve ever read… folks just didnt like his delivery 
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I do watch some of the Norton stuff… speaking of deliveries I don’t like.
I’ll respectfully disagree on PC. I am in a camp that doesn’t believe this is rocket surgery, so there’s not a real shortage of knowledgeable folks. He felt he had the way and there was no room for discussion. You don’t get to carry Terrel Owens attitude with Teddy Ginn talent.
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Fair enough, but he’s also cut from the same cloth as Yates, Trudel, Peters, Stevenson, etc. They all end up preaching the same thing: failure.
I’m a firm believer that failure training is required to progress for almost everyone at some point. Even all available data RE Schoenfield supports the ‘last 5 reps to failure’ argument. The few folks that dont need failure training are both genetically blessed, and are taking so much gear that it isn’t needed.
The end result for >95% of us chasing elite physiques is that training to failure WILL be required. So i don’t really think he (or anyone in that same camp) is wrong about having the way. It’s fine to disagree here - i just have yet to see a person who fails to progress when training to failure… no one’s ever said “I tried DC training and it made me small”.
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That almost proves my point, though: there’s lots of minds saying it, so you don’t have to tolerate anyone that comes with large downsides. The old “do what your rank can afford” adage.
I am 100% with you the advice to train harder is hard to beat.
I do still think even if something is the best way (which is contextual), it’s still not the only way. Those are all smart dudes, though, and failure training is for sure a path to bigness.
Anyway, I’m not debating whether PC is a smart dude - he is. I just understand saying bye.
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I’m a firm believer that failure training is required to progress for almost everyone at some point
My question is at what point is it required? Is it something a beginner like me shouldn’t worry about for like 5 years? I just started 531 which seems to focus a lot on bar speed, but then again it’s not a pure bodybuilding program. And from what I’ve read, programs like Doggcrapp are for people who’ve already trained seriously for years and exhausted easier methods.
So is failure training like a last resort?
When progression requires it.
Take monthly progress pictures, set a reminder on the 1st of every month. You may not see a real difference from one month to the next - most don’t. What about 3 months though? 6? If you haven’t seen ANY progress in 3 months, you KNOW your diet has been on target (because you log it), and you KNOW you’re not screwing around with training (because you log that too)… somethings gotta change. Again, you know your diet is how it needs to be, so it must be training that needs to be changed.
See above. Absolute timeline is irrelevant… hows your progress? (Rhetorical, for now).
It isn’t a bodybuilding program at all. A program designed around the big 3 or big 4 powerlifts is… you guessed it: a powerlifting program.
That being said, i agree with running 531 (modified to look more like Phraks Greyskull LP) as an intermediate lifter (when LP templates stop working, gauged by lack of progression), but with accessory movements. Notice that every last set of 531 is a “+” set… meaning even 531 trains to failure. These 6 (see Phraks) movements really are the foundational movement patterns which all other exercises are based on, so being great at them will NEVER hurt.
I don’t think failure training should be implemented until you have the time and experience in training where you can 1) objectively gauge your rep quality, and 2) trust your form to outlast the muscle you are training to failure. Until both of those requirements are met, I believe failure-based templates should be off the table for the hypothetical trainee.
It CAN be used as a last resort, and for many it is. I miss the days of ‘bro sets’ where I could casually stroll in, knock out 20-30 working sets in a day, do that 6x a week without fail. That training was far more ‘fun’ than what I’m doing now. So “last resort” is somewhat accurate, but if trying to accumulate the most amount of muscle in the shortest overall period of time - it would behoove the trainee to prioritize the shit out of learning to feel the muscle contraction, dial in form, and objectively gauge reps/progress.
I think that failure-based templates are the end-all be-all of training for most of us; there are exceptions to this rule, but you won’t know if this is you until you’ve exhausted traditional training methods and seen a natty FFMI >= 30 at 10-12% BF.
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If you haven’t seen ANY progress in 3 months, you KNOW your diet has been on target (because you log it), and you KNOW you’re not screwing around with training (because you log that too)… somethings gotta change. Again, you know your diet is how it needs to be, so it must be training that needs to be changed.
Definitely stealing the monthly pic idea. My issues still block me from training hard at times (and even force me to take off days when I don’t want to), but I can still be objective when checking pics every 3 months or so.
Notice that every last set of 531 is a “+” set… meaning even 531 trains to failure.
No way I’m doing barbell lifts to failure yet, but I can still go hard on assistance (Forever book recommends going to failure on assistance over main lifts anyway). I don’t see why I can’t go to failure on stuff like laterals, curls, and leg curls if I want to (excluding some days where my shoulder blades/other joints act weird).
but you won’t know if this is you until you’ve exhausted traditional training methods and seen a natty FFMI >= 30 at 10-12%
At 6’2, that’d put me 265lb @ 12% 
Hopefully by the time I need failure training to progress, I’m physically able to do it. Every 6 months or so I can feel significant joint improvements, so I should be physically capable when the time comes. The goal is to up the training over time as my symptoms improve.
the shit out of learning to feel the muscle contraction, dial in form, and objectively gauge reps/progress.
This I can definitely do in the meantime, though. 
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As an add on (since I had only heard of FFMI before today):
Has there ever been a 6’2 265lbs natty at a legit 12%? That’d be a ripped 265lbs, right? That’s insane without Francis Ngannou genetics.
If 12% isn’t lean enough for “ripped/shredded” then never mind.
Brad Borland was one of the top natural competitors at that height and peaked at 215lbs ~8%. Make of that what you will.
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Probably not lol. I’m using that as a relatively nonsense benchmark… folks that fit the “genetic freak” mold tend to grow from hardly ever touching weights. 1-2 years in the gym and they’re walking around carrying more lean body mass than folks 10 years their senior (in training experience). If this were you, you’d already know it.
For reference, I’m about 12% BF. Not ripped, but relatively lean - for America lol.
Height plays a major role in overall lean body mass required to look like you lift too.
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Ha! “American lean” needs to be a new internet standard unit of measurement
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Have you seen any of that Netflix show Physical 100? Them Korean dudes are all sitting like 8% BF (except the powerlifter/strongmen).
American Lean is at least 5% higher than Korean Lean lol
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I have. I think it’s cool.
Last Kingdom movie is out!
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