[quote]Following the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire, Palestine became a British Mandate under the authority of the League of Nations. The mandate system was supposed to prepare a country for eventual sovereignty (see the rest of the League Mandates, like Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq).
Palestine would have followed the same path to statehood , and only failed to become a sovereign state because its independence was pre-empted by Jewish settlers (freedom fighters or terrorists, depending on how you look at it).[/quote]
ur exactly right man, according to teh Partition Plan Palestine would have been divided into two parts, the areas with a jewish majority would be israel and the areas with palestinian majority would be Palestine with Jerusalem as an international city, on may 14th 1948 at midnight the british mandate was done, may 15 israel declared independance in its territories, may 16th the combined armies of the arab laegue invaded israel with absolutely no provocation except for its existance.
Israel had a population of about 700 000 jews at that point. depending on how u look at it israels victory in the War of Independance was eitehr a divine sign or due to the terrible failures of the disorganised invadin arab armies.
in the end of that war israel had gained alittle territory that it was not due to teh partition (without gaza, west bank, the golan or jerusalem which would ahev to wait till 1967 and one of the most undeniably effective military campaings of the 20th centruy)
whether you are jewish or not any real individual must realise that no other country is held to such a standarn as israel, nor has any country facing a comparable threat gone to greater lengths to preserve the rule of law.
Mearsheimer and Walt–Arrogance, Not Anti-Semitism:
As regular VC readers know, I’ve been highly critical of Mearsheimer and Walt’s “Israel Lobby” paper. However, I think many of their critics are erring in accusing the authors of anti-Semitism without supporting evidence. Where some critics see anti-Semitism, I see what is much more likely the result of simple sheer arrogance. As is very clear from the paper, Mearsheimer and Walt have firmly concluded that U.S. support of Israel is CLEARLY neither strategically nor morally justified. They are sufficiently arrogant that they assume that any normal, right-thinking person who looked objectively at the evidence would agree with them. Thus, U.S. policy would naturally not be supportive of Israel. The fact that it is supportive of Israel leads the authors to a conundrum: either acknowledge that reasonable people might disagree with their conclusions (which would provide a non-conspiratorial basis U.S. support for Israel), or assume that there is a wide-ranging conspiracy involving an amorphous “Israel lobby” biasing U.S. policy in favor of Israel. Rather than suspend their arrogant view that everyone sensible agrees with them, the authors adopt the conspiracy theory (not uniquely in this respect), and engage in sloppily researched and ill-reasoned inferences to support it. The Israel lobby also explains, in their view, other anomalies that they can’t otherwise explain, like how all reasonable people failed to agree with them that the Iraq War was not in U.S. interests.
The fact that Mearsheimer and Walt reasoned backwards from an inane, apparently arrogance-driven thesis, and wrote a “piss poor” (as Drezner put it) paper to support it, is reason enough to criticize these two well-known “scholars”. No need to pile on unsubstantiated allegations of anti-Semitism. Indeed, such allegations drown out more substantive criticisms.
Admittedly, writing about alleged largely Jewish-driven conspiracies gives succor to anti-Semites, and for that reason, individuals sensitive to such concerns would be especially careful about circulating academic work on that theme that’s not well-documented and reasoned. But a failure to be sensitive about anti-Semitism, or the anti-Semitic implicatons others will take from one’s work, is simply that, and is not itself persuasive evidence of anti-Semitism. To put it another way, all anti-Semites will be insensitive about anti-Semitism, but most individuals who are not sensitive about anti-Semitism are not anti-Semites.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
BB made the key point somewhere in his posts.
This war is not about Israel, this war is about protecting the middle east oil supply and as a result the House of Saud from extremist Islamic fundamentalists.
Our enemy wants to dominate that area and is trying to use terrorism to force us to withdraw from that part of the world.[/quote]
No no, it was about wmd and mush room clouds. And striking back at Al Quada’s allies.
But later it was about bringing democracy and freedom.
[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
…
The Israel lobby also explains, in their view, other anomalies that they can’t otherwise explain, like how all reasonable people failed to agree with them that the Iraq War was not in U.S. interests.
…[/quote]
Well, there’s your ultimate proof then.
What reasonable people would ever agree that the Iraq war was not in U.S. interests?
Every time you hear people in the media talking about the need and urgency to confront Iran - know exactly where its coming from…
[i][b]"Israel must immediately launch an intense, international public relations front first and foremost on the U.S.…
Israel’s war, must be sold as America’s war."[/b][/i]
-Benjamin Netanyahu
Revealed: Israel plans nuclear strike on Iran
January 07, 2007
Two Israeli air force squadrons are training to blow up an Iranian facility using low-yield nuclear “bunker-busters”, according to several Israeli military sources.
The attack would be the first with nuclear weapons since 1945, when the United States dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki…
Scott Ritter: Israel, Lobby Pushing Iran War
Dec 29, 2006
A former United Nations weapons inspector and leading Iraq War opponent has written a new book alleging that Jerusalem is pushing the Bush administration into war with Iran, and accusing the pro-Israel lobby of dual loyalty and “outright espionage.”
“The Bush administration, with the able help of the Israeli government and the pro-Israel Lobby, has succeeded,” Ritter writes, “in exploiting the ignorance of the American people about nuclear technology and nuclear weapons so as to engender enough fear that the American public has more or less been pre-programmed to accept the notion of the need to militarily confront a nuclear armed Iran.”
Later in the book, Ritter adds: “Let there be no doubt: If there is an American war with Iran, it is a war that was made in Israel and nowhere else.”…
Security officials interviewed by the Forward insisted that no branch of the military could or would deliberately skew the findings in that way, but they also said that Israeli intelligence tended to exaggerate threats because it was operating under flawed assumptions.
Now Ritter is arguing that a similar effort is under way to produce an attack against Iran.
Speaking to the Forward this week, Ritter stressed that he is not accusing all American Jews of having dual loyalty, saying that “at the end of the day, I would like to believe that most of American Jews will side with America.” http://www.forward.com/articles/book-israel-lobby-pushing-iran-war/
Who Is Planning the Next War?
Patrick J. Buchanan
January 10, 2007
As Americans await Bush’s address announcing a “surge” of 20,000 to 30,000 U.S. troops to Iraq, we may be missing the larger picture. The War Party is turning its attention from Iraq - to Iran…
on Dec. 30, retired Gen. Oded Tira, who headed up all Israeli artillery units, burst into print with this admonition:
“As an American air strike in Iran is essential for our existence, we must help (Bush) pave the way by lobbying the Democratic Party (which is conducting itself foolishly) and U.S. newspaper editors. We need to do this in order to turn the Iranian issue to a bipartisan one and unrelated to the Iraq failure.”
“Bush lacks the political power to attack Iran,” writes Tira. Thus, Israel and its U.S. lobbying arm “must turn to Hillary Clinton and other potential presidential candidates in the Democratic Party so that they publicly support immediate action by Bush against Iran.”
“The Americans must act,” Tira concludes. “If they don’t, we’ll do it ourselves … (and) we must immediately start preparing for an Iranian response to an attack.”
According to UPI editor-at-large Arnaud De Borchgrave, Tira’s line tracks the New Year’s Day message of Likud superhawk “Bibi” Netanyahu, the former prime minister.
Said Netanyahu, Israel "must immediately launch an intense, international public relations front first and foremost on the U.S. The goal being to encourage President Bush to live up to specific pledges he would not allow Iran to arm itself with nuclear weapons. We must make clear to the (U.S.) government, the Congress and the American public that a nuclear Iran is a threat to the U.S. and the entire world, not only Israel."
Israel’s war, says Bibi, must be sold as America’s war.
We are thus forewarned. A propaganda campaign, using Israeli agents and their neocon auxiliaries and sympathizers, who stampeded us into war in Iraq, is being prepared to stampede us into war on Iran.
We are to be convinced that Iran, with no air force or navy to speak of, an economy not 2 percent of ours, which has not started a single war since the revolution, 27 years ago, is about to give to terrorists, to use on us, a nuclear bomb it may be 10 years away from even being able to build…
[i]Said Netanyahu, Israel “must immediately launch an intense, international public relations front first and foremost on the U.S.”
Israel’s war, says Bibi, must be sold as America’s war.[/i]
Ritter: Israel’s influence of US policy & the Israeli lobby
Hersh: CIA Analysis Finds Iran Not Developing Nuclear Weapons
19 November 2006
Washington - A classified draft CIA assessment has found no firm evidence of a secret drive by Iran to develop nuclear weapons, as alleged by the White House, a top US investigative reporter has said. http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/111906Z.shtml
British Find No Evidence Of Arms Traffic From Iran into Iraq
Oct 4, 2006
ON THE IRAQ-IRAN BORDER – Since late August, British commandos in the deserts of far southeastern Iraq have been testing one of the most serious charges leveled by the United States against Iran: that Iran is secretly supplying weapons, parts, funding and training for attacks on U.S.-led forces in Iraq…
“I have not myself seen any evidence – and I don’t think any evidence exists – of government-supported or instigated” armed support on Iran’s part in Iraq, British Defense Secretary Des Browne said in an interview in Baghdad in late August…
Israel’s Bad Influence
Jan 6, 2007
Anybody who claims the Israeli lobby is just another lobby is either ignorant or lying. The Israeli lobby is the second most, if not the most, powerful lobby in America.
So, sit back and watch the Israeli amen corner start the propaganda to push America to war with Iran just as it did in the case of Iraq. It will try to have you believe that Iran can make nuclear weapons as easily as baking cakes. The truth is that even if Iran decided to seek nuclear weapons, the Iranians are a good 10 years away from having any. The truth is that Iran, even if it had nuclear weapons, is no threat to the U.S.
All of which reminds me of my favorite undiplomatic comment by a diplomat. Some time ago at a private party in London, the French ambassador said of Israel, “Why does the world put up with such a sh*tty little country causing so much trouble?” Outraged British Zionists demanded his recall, but the French government ignored them.
Sooner or later, Americans are going to wake up to the fact that Israel’s influence on the American government is detrimental…
Why Condemning Israel and the Zionist Lobby is so Important “It’s no great secret why the Jewish agencies continue to trumpet support for the discredited policies of this failed administration. They see defense of Israel as their number-one goal, trumping all other items on the agenda. That single-mindedness binds them ever closer to a White House that has made combating Islamic terrorism its signature campaign. The campaign’s effects on the world have been catastrophic. But that is no concern of the Jewish agencies.”
-JJ Goldberg, editor of Forward (the leading Jewish weekly in the United States) http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15989.htm
“Israel must immediately launch an intense, international public relations front first and foremost on the U.S… Israel’s war, must be sold as America’s war.”
Would these people be saying the same thing if we went to the defense of France or Germany (our so-called NATO allies – I think not!). Why Israel then?
Next thing I’ll read here is that we Jews control all the banks and money as well!
Israel is a key ally in a extremely sensitive area of the world.
Key ally huh? Do most of our key allies spy on us (Pollard, AIPAC) and bomb our warships (USS Liberty)? Just curious, but I don’t think even the craven French steal our secrets or murder our sailors. Maybe I’m wrong.[/quote]
Actually yes. The allies do spy on each other. In fact, the US and the Brits got into a bit of hot water spying on UN members not so long ago. Murder our sailors? God I hope your not talking about the Liberty incident. There’s a ton of other friendly fire naval/air incidents I can point out to you. That happens to be something I looked into briefly, once. It happens.
Also, why is the UN partition so magical to the Palestinians? Why aren’t they demanding land back from their Islamic neighbors? Oh right, they’re not Jews.
Having Israel as an ally is better for the US then having an arab country controlled by terrorists and nut jobs. Israel is a prowestern country in a nonwestern world. It is the only proUS country in the whole region and any threat to american interests stemming from the region would be dealt with by the US operating out of Israel/in conjunction with Israel.
Israel has a significant positive effect on strategic relations for our country. Therefore, your so called conspiracy theory is much more transparent. Israel and US interests are frequently overlapping. It is no conspiracy or underhanded deal that the US gives weapons to Israel. Israel points the weapons the right way compared to other countries.
I’ve always been amazed at this “Jewish/Zionist/Isreal” conspiracy…
FOR ONE MINUTE do any of you HONESTLY think that if we stopped supporting Israel, that we would be holding hands in the Streets of Tehran, Baghdad and Damascus, singing “I’d Like To Teach the World to Sing” while holding hands with our Arab “brothers”, smoking Hashish and drinking Coke?
Not a chance; there would just be some other reason created to hate us.
[quote]Hawkson101 wrote:
Having Israel as an ally is better for the US then having an arab country controlled by terrorists and nut jobs. Israel is a prowestern country in a nonwestern world. It is the only proUS country in the whole region and any threat to american interests stemming from the region would be dealt with by the US operating out of Israel/in conjunction with Israel.
Israel has a significant positive effect on strategic relations for our country. Therefore, your so called conspiracy theory is much more transparent. Israel and US interests are frequently overlapping. It is no conspiracy or underhanded deal that the US gives weapons to Israel. Israel points the weapons the right way compared to other countries.[/quote]
“Israel has a significant positive effect on strategic relations for our country.”
Your funny.
Poll: 64% of Lebanese say opinion of U.S. worsened after war
11/14/2006
WASHINGTON (AP) - The recent war between Israel and Hezbollah guerillas cost the United States dearly in the eyes of Lebanese, a poll taken just over a month after the violence found… http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/787931.html
Poll: Israel and US Biggest Threats to World Peace
EUOBSERVER / BRUSSELS - Over half of Europeans think that Israel now presents the biggest threat to world peace according to a controversial poll requested by the European Commission. http://www.twf.org/News/Y2003/1031-Poll.html
British believe Bush is more dangerous than Kim Jong-il
November 3, 2006
America is now seen as a threat to world peace by its closest neighbours and allies, according to an international survey of public opinion published today that reveals just how far the country’s reputation has fallen among former supporters since the invasion of Iraq.
World Polls: U.S. Reputation Falls
Seventy-four percent of Japanese, 70 percent of French, 67 percent of South Koreans, 64 percent of Canadians and 60 percent of Spaniards said they had a worse opinion of America now than two to three years ago.
[quote]Mufasa wrote:
I’ve always been amazed at this “Jewish/Zionist/Isreal” conspiracy…
FOR ONE MINUTE do any of you HONESTLY think that if we stopped supporting Israel, that we would be holding hands in the Streets of Tehran, Baghdad and Damascus, singing “I’d Like To Teach the World to Sing” while holding hands with our Arab “brothers”, smoking Hashish and drinking Coke?
Not a chance; there would just be some other reason created to hate us.
Mufasa[/quote]
Of course the “logical” solution is to convert every muslim country into a western style democracy by force.
Maybe after that we can move the Earth farther away from the sun to combat global warming.
[quote]Wreckless wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
BB made the key point somewhere in his posts.
This war is not about Israel, this war is about protecting the middle east oil supply and as a result the House of Saud from extremist Islamic fundamentalists.
Our enemy wants to dominate that area and is trying to use terrorism to force us to withdraw from that part of the world.
No no, it was about wmd and mush room clouds. And striking back at Al Quada’s allies.
But later it was about bringing democracy and freedom.
Remember?[/quote]
Wreckless, WMD’s were not the sole reason for the invasion of Iraq and you know it. However, one of the driving reasons did revolve around UN resolution 1441 and Iraq’s continued circumvention of that measure. The stated objective of the invasion was “to disarm Iraq of weapons of mass destruction, to end Saddam Hussein’s support for terrorism, and to free the Iraqi people”
By the way, the UN is an utterly laughable institution.
Israel is a strategic ally because of its location, its prowestern views, and its close proximity to hot spots in the region. foreign countries opinions on the us in relation to israel are tangents. The US places safety and over other’s opinions. Besides, most of those stats have been worsened in general because of bush and the mishandling of the iraq war. they are not solely becaue of israel. and in any case, strategically israel is important.
[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
Hawkson101 wrote:
Having Israel as an ally is better for the US then having an arab country controlled by terrorists and nut jobs. Israel is a prowestern country in a nonwestern world. It is the only proUS country in the whole region and any threat to american interests stemming from the region would be dealt with by the US operating out of Israel/in conjunction with Israel.
Israel has a significant positive effect on strategic relations for our country. Therefore, your so called conspiracy theory is much more transparent. Israel and US interests are frequently overlapping. It is no conspiracy or underhanded deal that the US gives weapons to Israel. Israel points the weapons the right way compared to other countries.
“Israel has a significant positive effect on strategic relations for our country.”
Your funny.
Poll: 64% of Lebanese say opinion of U.S. worsened after war
11/14/2006
WASHINGTON (AP) - The recent war between Israel and Hezbollah guerillas cost the United States dearly in the eyes of Lebanese, a poll taken just over a month after the violence found… http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/787931.html
Poll: Israel and US Biggest Threats to World Peace
EUOBSERVER / BRUSSELS - Over half of Europeans think that Israel now presents the biggest threat to world peace according to a controversial poll requested by the European Commission. http://www.twf.org/News/Y2003/1031-Poll.html
British believe Bush is more dangerous than Kim Jong-il
November 3, 2006
America is now seen as a threat to world peace by its closest neighbours and allies, according to an international survey of public opinion published today that reveals just how far the country’s reputation has fallen among former supporters since the invasion of Iraq.
World Polls: U.S. Reputation Falls
Seventy-four percent of Japanese, 70 percent of French, 67 percent of South Koreans, 64 percent of Canadians and 60 percent of Spaniards said they had a worse opinion of America now than two to three years ago.
[quote]harris447 wrote:
OKLAHOMA STATE wrote:
Look for a smear campaign to begin immediately againt Mearsheimer and Walt. I bet it will only be a few days before Abraham Foxman of the ADL calls them “anti-semites.”
Their article is a good one and something that all Americans should be aware of, but unfortunately aren’t due to the Jewish stranglehold on the media. Wake up people!! Its time our boys stopped dying for Israel.
The “Jewish stranglehold on the media”?
You’re kidding, right?
[/quote]
Because Rupert Murdoch says all his prayers in Hebrew every night… and celebrates Hanukkah too!
[quote]Hawkson101 wrote:
Israel is a strategic ally because of its location, its prowestern views, and its close proximity to hot spots in the region. foreign countries opinions on the us in relation to israel are tangents. The US places safety and over other’s opinions. Besides, most of those stats have been worsened in general because of bush and the mishandling of the iraq war. they are not solely becaue of israel. and in any case, strategically israel is important.
[/quote]
The point is they’re lying to escalate one war and start another.
Iraq Study Group: Israel-Palestinian Issue Key to Iraq Peace
“The United States will not be able to achieve its goals in the Middle East unless the United States deals directly with the Arab-Israeli conflict,” reads a recommendation from the group. “The United States does its ally Israel no favors in avoiding direct involvement to solve the Arab-Israeli conflict.” http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,234918,00.html
The “Iraq Scenario” in Iran
Hawkish report angers IAEA
In recent weeks, an IAEA letter has surfaced that harshly criticized a report by a US Congressional intelligence committee. The 29-page document supposedly grossly exaggerated the state of Iran’s nuclear research…
“It’s just like before the Iraq war,” says David Albright, a respected US nuclear expert. “They blow up the threat with windy information and attack the IAEA.”
Former Generals and Officials: Iran Is “Not a Crisis”
Retired Army Lt. Gen. Robert G. Gard, one of the letter’s signers and a former military assistant to Defense Secretary Robert S. McNamara in the 1960s, said the group was particularly concerned about administration policies toward Iran, believing them to be a possible prelude to a military attack on suspected nuclear sites in that country…
He noted that Iran had sought to open negotiations with the U.S. through Swiss intermediaries, efforts that the letter-signers said were worth exploring as a means of defusing tensions in the region.
But Gard said the administration appeared to be going in the opposite direction, adding that he was particularly concerned by recent warnings from former Israeli military officials that a strike against Iran may be needed to disable that country’s nuclear program.
He noted that the Bush administration’s unabashedly pro-Israel stance during the recent conflict with Hezbollah was an indication that the White House may accede to such assessments.
Revealed: IRA bombs killed eight British soldiers in Iraq
Terror devices used by the IRA in a vicious murder campaign in Ulster blew up British servicemen as the world blamed Iran
16 October 2005
The soldiers, who were targeted by insurgents as they travelled through the country, died after being attacked with bombs triggered by infra-red beams. The bombs were developed by the IRA using technology passed on by the security services in a botched “sting” operation more than a decade ago.
Presidential Candidate Fears “Gulf Of Tonkin” To Provoke Iran War
January 15, 2007
Republican Congressman and 2008 Presidential candidate Ron Paul fears a staged Gulf of Tonkin style incident may be used to provoke air strikes on Iran as numerous factors collide to heighten expectations that America may soon be embroiled in its third war in six years… http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/january2007/150107gulfoftonkin.htm
