Study: Dying for Israel

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
…

OKLAHOMA STATE is right. Does just stating a fact make somebody a racist? …
[/quote]

If you only post selected “facts” to only tell one side of the story and hurt the target of your racism it does.

Like when you tried to deny the extent of the Holocaust by posting the inflated Soviet claims of long ago. You know that the inflated Soviet claims have never been included in the numbers killed during the Holocaust yet you pretend that the always bogus numbers somehow factor into the reality that 10 million Jews, Gypsie, homosexuals and other undesireables were murdered.

You scan your neonazi websites for the appropriate way to spin the story of the day and then you rush right over to T-Nation to post it.

Lowlife.

62

[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
Accuracy in Reporting of Israel/Palestine

harris447 wrote:
OKLAHOMA STATE wrote:
harris447 wrote:

Perhaps major media outlets tend to favor Israel because the other side keeps walking onto buses with bombs strapped to them.

Major media outlets tend ro favor Israel because 90+% of the media is owned/operated by Jewish people. I’m sure JustTheFacts can provide a link, but all the major networks/newspapers are owned/operated by Jewish media moguls. The BBC is a far more onjective source of info on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

Once again–and this is the last time I’m going to ask nicely without saying unbelievably rude things about your hayseed ass–please provide FACTS to back up your statement.

Do not go running to a poster no one takes seriously who digs up all his bullshit theories from www.tinfoilhat.com.

Fox is owned by Rupert Murdoch. Viacom and GE are publicly owned. So, the “90%” figure you pulled out of your ass is nonsense.

Back up your ludicrous, Jew-hatin’ statements with facts or fuck off and don’t come back.

OKLAHOMA STATE is right. Does just stating a fact make somebody a racist? You flip out like it isn’t true, like in your mind it’s a complete fallacy that media, politics and finance is DOMINATED by Jewish people.

Your the one who ends up looking like a whacko here – it’s akin to arguing, it’s a conspiracy theory to think there are mostly blacks in the NBA - or NASCAR and golf are dominated by white guys.

The danger here is that Jews represent only 2% of the US population and only 1% of the entire world population – to say they’re over represented in media, politics and finance is the UNDERSTATEMENT of the century. All things being equal you would expect to see on average less than 1 Jewish person in a group of 100 media executives – instead it’s conservatively probably 70 out of 100.

In reality this isn’t a race issue, it’s about ideology.

The fact that the following people are Jewish is not what concerns me. I have no problem with Jews as a race – how would you feel if these guys were Southern Baptists or Mormons or Scientologists? Would you want this small group of ideologues with KNOWN ties and allegiance to a foreign power determining US foreign and domestic policy without question?

Richard Perle, who was caught in the 70’s giving classified information to Israel was chairman of the Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board and was key policy advisor in the decision to invade Iraq. PNAC member.

Paul Wolfowitz was Deputy Defense Secretary and Policy Advisor, was appointed to head the World Bank. PNAC member.

Douglas Feith was Under Secretary of Defense and Policy Advisor, resigned, currently under investigation for cooking intelligence and giving classified information to Israel.

Larry A. Franklin, former Pentagon analyst under Douglas Feith, recently sentenced to 12 years in prison for passing classified information to Israeli lobby AIPAC.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11624.htm

I. Lewis Libby, former Dick Cheney Chief of Staff, under indictment for outing Valerie Plame. PNAC member.

Dov Zakheim, Under Secretary of Defense from 2001 to 2004, ordained rabbi. Vice President of System Planning Corporation - manufacturer/developer of Command Transmitter System (CTS) a tunable UHF FM transmitter designed for ground use in controlling guided missiles, pilotless aircraft and pilotless boats. PNAC member.

Henry Kissinger, advisor on Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board, all-around bad guy.

Elliott Abrams, National Security Council Advisor, involved in the Iran-Contra scandal, pardoned by papa Bush. PNAC member.

Michael Chertoff head of Homeland Security.

John Bolton appointed ambassador to the United Nations. PNAC member.

To say that Israel hasn’t practically hijacked our government is to ignore the OBVIOUS.

Zionism and Judaism - Let Us Define Our Terms
Thus, we find that, today, despite the power of the Zionist lobby and the subservience, until recently, of most politicians, media outlets and educational settings here in America, to its dictates, the historical blackout is coming to an end.

More and more people are questioning the Zionist version of history. At the United Nations and throughout Europe the questions have already been raised and largely answered. The answers are a variety of criticisms of the Israeli state. Some of these center on Israel’s practices. Others point to its underlying philosophy.

BTW Rupert Murdoch, a good friend of Ariel Sharon wanted you to watch this – aired on FOX March 4, 2001
http://www.plaguepuppy.net/public_html/Lone%20Gunmen/lonegunmanpilot.wmv

[i]Brit Hume: “What about this question of advanced knowledge of what was going to happen on September 11? How clear are investigators that some Israeli agents may have known something?”

Carl Cameron: "It’s very explosive information, obviously, and there’s a great deal of evidence that they say they have collected, none of it necessarily conclusive. It’s more when they put it all together. A bigger question, they say, is how could they not have known?"[/i]
http://207.44.245.159/article7545.htm
[/quote]

Well then the Palestinians should stop messing with Israel.

63

[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:

In reality this isn’t a race issue, it’s about ideology.

The fact that the following people are Jewish is not what concerns me. I have no problem with Jews as a race – how would you feel if these guys were Southern Baptists or Mormons or Scientologists? Would you want this small group of ideologues with KNOWN ties and allegiance to a foreign power determining US foreign and domestic policy without question?

Richard Perle, who was caught in the 70’s giving classified information to Israel was chairman of the Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board and was key policy advisor in the decision to invade Iraq. PNAC member.

Paul Wolfowitz was Deputy Defense Secretary and Policy Advisor, was appointed to head the World Bank. PNAC member.

Douglas Feith was Under Secretary of Defense and Policy Advisor, resigned, currently under investigation for cooking intelligence and giving classified information to Israel.

Larry A. Franklin, former Pentagon analyst under Douglas Feith, recently sentenced to 12 years in prison for passing classified information to Israeli lobby AIPAC.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11624.htm

I. Lewis Libby, former Dick Cheney Chief of Staff, under indictment for outing Valerie Plame. PNAC member.

Dov Zakheim, Under Secretary of Defense from 2001 to 2004, ordained rabbi. Vice President of System Planning Corporation - manufacturer/developer of Command Transmitter System (CTS) a tunable UHF FM transmitter designed for ground use in controlling guided missiles, pilotless aircraft and pilotless boats. PNAC member.

Henry Kissinger, advisor on Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board, all-around bad guy.

Elliott Abrams, National Security Council Advisor, involved in the Iran-Contra scandal, pardoned by papa Bush. PNAC member.

Michael Chertoff head of Homeland Security.

John Bolton appointed ambassador to the United Nations. PNAC member.

To say that Israel hasn’t practically hijacked our government is to ignore the OBVIOUS.

[/quote]

This stuff about PNAC and the neocons always drives me up a wall, because it isn’t just the Jew-conspiracy folks like you who spout it. You know what PNAC (Project for the New American Century) is? I worked a couple of floors up from them two summers ago, PNAC is a couple of rooms with a couple of computers and a handful of permanent staffers. More importantly, you can argue about whether its goals are good (although an American 21st century is gonna be a hell of a lot better than an American or Islamist one), but PNAC is the last thing from a conspiracy. It was an open pressure group during the Clinton years, whose members later gained a great deal of power and influence in the Bush administration. How is this in any way a conspiracy, that one intellectual movement in foreign and defense policy came to predominate in an administration?

64

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
I decided to address a few points without addressing anyone directly, since I think it will be better for my blood pressure that way.

There are many factual errors within these posts as well as remarks that really do smack of good “old fashioned” anti-semitism.

(1) When people talk about the “Jews having too much power,” they are “in control of the media,” etc. a red flag does go up.

(2) If all the Jews owned the mainstream media, why does the mainstream media love the Palestinians? The bias, I am afraid, is on the Arab side, not on the side of Israel.

(3) Someone said that Israel “took someone else’s land.” This is simply not true. Might I remind everyone that the Romans drove the Jewish people out of the land when they destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple in the year 70 A.D.? The Jews were thrown forcibly out of Jewish land to be scattered throughout the four corners of the earth.

(4) The Jewish dream and hope (as shown every year at the Passover Seder when we say “next year in Jerusalem”) never ever died. It was always a priority for our people to return to our land.

(5) The fact that there were “squatters” in the land doesn’t mean that the Jewish people have any less right to it. Imagine if your family was thrown forcibly off your farm, and then others moved in. It wouldn’t matter if it was 10 years later or 1000 years later, the people on the farm simply don’t own it. It still belongs to the original owners who never sold it and never left on their own free will.

(6) The fact that Israel is a “Jewish State” shouldn’t surprise anyone. If it is a homeland for the Jewish people, who else are you going to find there? I mean in France you find the French; in Japan you find the Japanese; in China you find the Chinese – get it?

(7) Since the word “anti-semetic” as it is used currently, means “anti-Jew” – i.e. against the Jews – and since the Jewish hope has always been a return to our land, it is very easy to see the equality between being “anti-zionist” and “anti-semetic,” for if you are against the Jewish hope of return, you are against the Jew as well.

Fortunately, Israel is militarily strong and firmly established. We “ain’t going away” so tough on those who don’t like it, and as all of her enemies have found out, it doesn’t pay to go up against her either.

(8) With all of the people quoted, I am surpirsed nobody has quoted Henry Ford or Charles Lindburgh – two “great” and notorious anti-semites.

(9)Finally, I would like to address Boston Barrister – listen, I wasn’t saying that we should squash the report or it shouldn’t be discussed. What I am outraged about is the blatant anti-semitism this sort of thread invites on the part of those who simply don’t like the Jews and as much as they try to hide it, it oozes out of their very words. I would like for you to address that as well as address some of the hateful comments being made. [/quote]

Boy, this is quite humorous! Being a Jew myself, and a fairly BLUNT and HONEST, I did find myself laughing at this one!

1)First about the media. Why the hell would a red flag go up if someone told me that Jews own nearly all of our entertainment and news media?! The fact is that we do! HBO, Miramax, CNN, The New York Times, Time Warner, SKG-Dreamworks, Disney, MTV-Nickelodeon-Viacom-VH1 conglomerate (Sumner Redstone aka Murray Rothstein), The New York Post, Fox News, and dozens of other media outlets are owned by Jews.

And secondly, why the hell would I deny this and why would I think having power is bad?! If someone tells me, you Jews have a lot of power in this country (which I have in fact been told by other races, including Arabs and other Middle Easterners) my response is always “yeah, no shit!” Is this really something to be ashamed of: having power?

  1. You can be Jewish and still be sympathetic to Arabs genius. It is actually either a) wanting to make peace or b) realizing that maybe both Israel and Palestine have bloody, inhumane and criminal pasts and you want this shit to end!

  2. Yes, Romans were fiercely anti-Semitic. And no, according to pop psychology it was not because of anti-Jewish Roman Catholicism considering that the Romans despised Jews 1,000 years before Christ!

  3. Are you in Israel right now? If not, why are you not going back?

  4. There are some thing called conquering! I would also like to know? Do you support mono-racialism or apartheid in America? If you don’t, then why is it OK in Israel? Also, if you don’t you are a hypocrite.

  5. I personally do not think France is French anymore and neither is Germany. However, I get your point. Again, if you really feel that mono-racialism is best, then why do you reside in a multi-racial country such as the USA, After all, us Jews make up less than 2 percent of the population here. And NO, Jews are NOT white despite some of the white blood we have in us. I myself have blonde hair and blue eyes and have very pale skin.

  6. This one is the funniest considering many prominent Jews are and were anti-Zionist, including some Chasidic sects of Jews! And this REALLY goes for the old left wing, communist, atheistic Jews in the Soviet Union such as Trotsky, Zinoviev, Kaminev, Kaganovic, Radek, Sverdlov, and Bukarin, who openly sent their own Jewish brethren off to Soviet concentration camps for being pro-Zionist or religiously Jewish.

  7. Yeah, Ford and Lindburgh did not like Jews. Does everyone really have to like me? You know, you speak of our religion openly on here and complain of anti-Semitism. How come you do not expose how some of the Talmud and some Jews themselves are anti-Gentile?

  8. It is not anti-Semitic. Us Jews have power in this government and that’s that! You can be a Jew who whines of anti-Semitism because someone does so little as to say “you’re Jewish”. I will remain a Jew who states what has happened and what is happening.

And NO, I am not a self hating Jew. I am simply sick and tired of Jews such as yourself whining about anti-Semitism because of the simplest exposure of some facts. I am an atheistic Jew.

Most Jews do not have a religious bone in their body, including famous ones such as Freud, Einstein, Feldenkrais, Samuel Gompers, Judah Benjamin, and rather infamous ones such as Meyer Lansky, Moe Dalitz, and Longy Zwilman (you know, the guys who built our Las Vegas). I am proud of what Jews have contributed to society in the fields of mathematics, medicine, physics, finance, retail, and other areas which they have excelled in.

Sometimes I even get a good kick when I read about old school Jewish gangsters and organized crime figures ( the book But they Were Good to Their Mothers). BUT again, I will not run around crying anti-Semitism every time an intelligent Gentile has something to say in an intelligent and civilized way!

65

I just had to continue on #8. What about Jewish anti-Gentilists, so to speak? You know, I really think Menachim Schneerson and Maurice Samuels had great things to say about non-Jews. Especially when Schneerson stated in his writings that the souls of Gentiles are of Satanic spheres and when Samuels wrote of how he took pleasure in European culture being destroyed by Jews.

66

If anyone has any real interest in the subject tehy hsould definately read Alan Dershowitzs book " The Case for Israel" and the sequel “The Case for Peace”, these two books are some of the best researched and cited books, dershowitz uses almost halchik logic with everything to bak it up, to sum it up easily in a couple pts

  • Israel has a right to exist with a jewish majority,
  • tehre is no “cycle” of violence, a cycle assuems that if one party stops from retaliating then all would end, this is not the case in israel, everytime a dovish head of state was elected suicide bombs have been used
  • Israel is indeed the number one proponent of humane conduct in battle and its supreme court is the most progressive in the world. period.

anyone who disputes this is false, does not haev his facts straight or is merely practicing revisionist history,
the palestinians have been victimized even worse by their leaders then israel could have ever done, this was expressed by Prince Bandar the saudi ambassador who in private called Arafats rejection of Baraks proposel and the subsequent launching of the Intifida to be the greatest crime ever perpetrated against the palestinians with 3000 completely avoidable deaths, on both sides,
and anyone who thinks the palestinians are the david in this scenario should take a look at a map once in ahwile ,

67

[quote]PEREQUE wrote:
If anyone has any real interest in the subject tehy hsould definately read Alan Dershowitzs book " The Case for Israel" and the sequel “The Case for Peace”, these two books are some of the best researched and cited books, dershowitz uses almost halchik logic with everything to bak it up, to sum it up easily in a couple pts

  • Israel has a right to exist with a jewish majority,
  • tehre is no “cycle” of violence, a cycle assuems that if one party stops from retaliating then all would end, this is not the case in israel, everytime a dovish head of state was elected suicide bombs have been used
  • Israel is indeed the number one proponent of humane conduct in battle and its supreme court is the most progressive in the world. period.

anyone who disputes this is false, does not haev his facts straight or is merely practicing revisionist history,
the palestinians have been victimized even worse by their leaders then israel could have ever done, this was expressed by Prince Bandar the saudi ambassador who in private called Arafats rejection of Baraks proposel and the subsequent launching of the Intifida to be the greatest crime ever perpetrated against the palestinians with 3000 completely avoidable deaths, on both sides,
and anyone who thinks the palestinians are the david in this scenario should take a look at a map once in ahwile , [/quote]

If Israel’s Supreme court is the most progressive in the world, then why is sex slavery legal in Israel?

68

[quote]PEREQUE wrote:
If anyone has any real interest in the subject tehy hsould definately read Alan Dershowitzs book " The Case for Israel" and the sequel “The Case for Peace”, these two books are some of the best researched and cited books, dershowitz uses almost halchik logic with everything to bak it up, to sum it up easily in a couple pts

  • Israel has a right to exist with a jewish majority,
  • tehre is no “cycle” of violence, a cycle assuems that if one party stops from retaliating then all would end, this is not the case in israel, everytime a dovish head of state was elected suicide bombs have been used
  • Israel is indeed the number one proponent of humane conduct in battle and its supreme court is the most progressive in the world. period.

anyone who disputes this is false, does not haev his facts straight or is merely practicing revisionist history,
the palestinians have been victimized even worse by their leaders then israel could have ever done, this was expressed by Prince Bandar the saudi ambassador who in private called Arafats rejection of Baraks proposel and the subsequent launching of the Intifida to be the greatest crime ever perpetrated against the palestinians with 3000 completely avoidable deaths, on both sides,
and anyone who thinks the palestinians are the david in this scenario should take a look at a map once in ahwile , [/quote]

What does this map tell us? That Israel is a small country. OK.
Well, if Israel’s leaders are so humane then why did the Hague put Ariel Sharon on trial for war crimes comitted by him and others in the Sabra and Shetala refugee camps in Lebanon in '82 which resulted in the deaths of 1000s of Lebanese civilians, including women and children.
if Israel is so peaceful then did it attack one of our ships, the USS Liberty in order to make it seem as if Egyptians attacked that ship?
I am Jewish, as stated before. I am just simply sick of the whining and complaining over Israel and anti-Semitism as stated before too.
And oh yeah, if Israel has the right to be Jewish dominated and an apartheid state then why should the USA not be a white dominated state? Oh, you would not like it if that happened, would ya? Oh no, you would not want that would you? A white dominated state would be like…uh…umm…Germany, 1933-1945! See then you do not like it. A lot of leftist Jewish idiots did not like Serbia to be Serbian too. Like Wesley Clark and Madeline Albright decided to send Serbia back to the stone age when the Serbs wanted to be SERBS! But Israel is a different story. Look, cut the mealy mouthed, overly arrogant drivel. Then maybe anti-Semitism will go down.

69

[quote]Guttus Gumptuous wrote:

If Israel’s Supreme court is the most progressive in the world, then why is sex slavery legal in Israel?[/quote]

WHERE THE HELL DID U C THIS???/
Israels supreme court si teh most prograssive in the world baning forms of torture used everyday by americans at guantanamo and by otehr western powers

P.S. JUST SO U KNO NOT ONE ISRAELI SOLDIER WAS IN SABRA OR SHATILA, THE MASSACRES WERE FULLY CARRIED OUT BY CHRISTIAN MILITIAS,
u might be jewish by birth but thats the only thing uve gained since u obviously dint gain a jewish lvoe of knowledge

70

[quote]Guttus Gumptuous wrote:
If Israel’s Supreme court is the most progressive in the world, then why is sex slavery legal in Israel?[/quote]

PS2: The only real sex slave trade in israel is perpetrated by the Russian mafia that was able to infiltrate after the fall of the soviet union by merely claiming to be jews, anyhow tehre have been buses of girls found on the border being shipped to egypt

71

[quote]PEREQUE wrote:
Guttus Gumptuous wrote:
If Israel’s Supreme court is the most progressive in the world, then why is sex slavery legal in Israel?

PS2: The only real sex slave trade in israel is perpetrated by the Russian mafia that was able to infiltrate after the fall of the soviet union by merely claiming to be jews, anyhow tehre have been buses of girls found on the border being shipped to egypt[/quote]

Uh, hello. There is not one Russian in the “Russian” mafia. Ever head of Ludwig Fainzelberg? So you are telling me that all the Bukarin Jews from the Soviet Union are Russians claiming to be Jews? Haha! Funny, considering none of them look even remotely Russian!

72

Muslim nations are the ones known for the widepread abuse of women and a rampant sex slave trade.

You must be confused or high on drugs; it’s ok, we don’t hate you, we just think you’re a fool.

73

[quote]Guttus Gumptuous wrote:

Uh, hello. There is not one Russian in the “Russian” mafia. Ever head of Ludwig Fainzelberg? So you are telling me that all the Bukarin Jews from the Soviet Union are Russians claiming to be Jews? Haha! Funny, considering none of them look even remotely Russian! [/quote]

Not once did i say that all russian jews were pretending, but that is what happened, i dint say that chabad Rebbe was pretending to be jewish nor the other what 5 million russian jews but there were criminals that took advantage of the system, loool ever c the movie Lord of War?? there were times when it was beneficial to be jewish to get out of the country, if u dont kno that then ur an idiot, u might b jewish but when it coems to israel u dont kno ur talkin about, the russian community there is very strong without even being jewish if u deny this it is clear that u havent been to israel in the past 10 years or maybe even ever,
and PS turkey, a muslem country, is usually the home base for sex traffikers that sue girls from the balkins even as high up as the Ukraine

74

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
I decided to address a few points without addressing anyone directly, since I think it will be better for my blood pressure that way.

There are many factual errors within these posts as well as remarks that really do smack of good “old fashioned” anti-semitism.

(3) Someone said that Israel “took someone else’s land.” This is simply not true. Might I remind everyone that the Romans drove the Jewish people out of the land when they destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple in the year 70 A.D.? The Jews were thrown forcibly out of Jewish land to be scattered throughout the four corners of the earth.

OK, but if I remember my Old Testament the Jews took the land from the Canaanites now didn’t they? So isn’t it their land then, by your amazing logic?

Well, if you want to go Biblical, then fine. God told the Jews to go into the land of Cannan and to drive out the inhabitants, because clearly God gave the Jewish people the land.

Now, if you can find any of the Canninites, and all of the other “ites,” well good luck – because none of them exist today. So I guess by your implied logic – the last people standing win – we win!

I think you’d have as easy a time finding Canaanites and Jebusites as you would figuring out those Jews who are descendants of those dispossessed in 70 AD and those whose ancestors left long before for Alexandria, Tarsus, or any of the many other heavily Jewish cities of the Mediterranean at that time. And it should be pretty clear that the people living in a land for the last thousand and some years are “the last people standing.”
[/quote]

Completely and utterly False. Just you saying this doesn’t make it so. You accuse ME of being “ignorant,” but you clearly show your ignorance here.

I hate to break it to you, but you can try to find some Jebusites, or any other “ites” that you want, but you are “talking” to a real live Israelite here. I am a decendent of those who were in the land and then displaced out of our land back in AD 70. My ancestor Abraham, is buried in Hebron (which I had the privilege of visting in 1999). We, the Jewish people, have survived as God has promised in His Word, and we have a claim to this land that is eternal, Biblical, and bears the marks of God’s blessings.

OK, why don’t you come up with a term for those who benefit from the forced displacement of others then…

For your information, I have read The Chosen many times since I first read it at age 15. I work around those in the community of Williamsburg, Brooklyn where the book was set, and have worked with and known Orthodox Jews (in my own family and elsewhere) so I think I might know a bit more than you about this issue.

You are correct in that not all Jews agree with the MODERN STATE OF ISRAEL, since there is the correct belief that Messiah must come to set up the Jews in our land. However, ALL religious Jews would agree that God has irrevocably given the land to the Jewish people, although they might not all agree at the timing of the possession.

As I think I said in an earlier post, Zionism developed in the 19th Century to find a permanent homeland for the Jewish people since (you might have missed this in your own history studies) the world doesn’t have a good track record of treating Jewish people very nicely. However, Zionism did spring forth from a two thousand year hope that Israel always had since the forced displacement of returning to the land. How do we know this? Read the Jewish writings. Read the Talmud, the Midrashim, etc. Read the Jewish liturgy, etc. That’s how we know this!

You seem to be quick with the proverbial “you don’t know what you are talking about,” in the face of the facts that I present.

[quote]

(8) With all of the people quoted, I am surpirsed nobody has quoted Henry Ford or Charles Lindburgh – two “great” and notorious anti-semites.

Um, yeah, good call, those of us with legitimate questions about America’s relationship with Israel were just about to quote Hitler too, you caught us, well done.

Yes, I believe someone actually equated Israel’s treatment of the so-called Palestinians to that of Nazi Germany, so I am not that far off.

The “so-called Palestinians” huh? What other name would there be for the inhabitants of the British mandate of Palestine? Squatters?[/quote]

There was never a “country” of Palestine. Why don’t you take your own advice and read some history. These Arabs were told by the other Arab nations that attacked Israel back in 1948 to remain there and when the Jews are driven into the Sea, you will have the land. The only problem was that Israel won that war and all other wars for that matter. So what happend? These Arabs were not accepted into the Arab nations, but used as pawns to show how the bad Israelis treat the “poor Palestinian refugees.” The “Palestinians” are Arabs – they were never historically a people nor did they ever have a soverign country. Now that is an historic fact, and unless you have something tangible to show everyone to refute this, please don’t respond with what you think I don’t know, because quite frankly, it is getting boring, tiring, and you really look bad when you do that.

“Pray for the Peace of Jerusalem…” Psalm 122:6

75

[quote]Guttus Gumptuous wrote:
I just had to continue on #8. What about Jewish anti-Gentilists, so to speak? You know, I really think Menachim Schneerson and Maurice Samuels had great things to say about non-Jews. Especially when Schneerson stated in his writings that the souls of Gentiles are of Satanic spheres and when Samuels wrote of how he took pleasure in European culture being destroyed by Jews. [/quote]

I think you should rethink your statement that you are not a self-hating Jew, because you surely sound like one.

You can laugh all you want about whatever you want, but things in Germany didn’t begin with our people being thrown into gas chambers, it was incidious anti-semitism that went unchecked and unchallenged.

You might call it whinning, but I am sure that the 6 million who perished would have wanted someone to “whine” for them.

Think about it before you disparage your own people…

76

[quote]Guttus Gumptuous wrote:
PEREQUE wrote:
Guttus Gumptuous wrote:
If Israel’s Supreme court is the most progressive in the world, then why is sex slavery legal in Israel?

PS2: The only real sex slave trade in israel is perpetrated by the Russian mafia that was able to infiltrate after the fall of the soviet union by merely claiming to be jews, anyhow tehre have been buses of girls found on the border being shipped to egypt

Uh, hello. There is not one Russian in the “Russian” mafia. Ever head of Ludwig Fainzelberg? So you are telling me that all the Bukarin Jews from the Soviet Union are Russians claiming to be Jews? Haha! Funny, considering none of them look even remotely Russian! [/quote]

Are you sure you are not Muslim?

77

[quote]Guttus Gumptuous wrote:
PEREQUE wrote:
If anyone has any real interest in the subject tehy hsould definately read Alan Dershowitzs book " The Case for Israel" and the sequel “The Case for Peace”, these two books are some of the best researched and cited books, dershowitz uses almost halchik logic with everything to bak it up, to sum it up easily in a couple pts

  • Israel has a right to exist with a jewish majority,
  • tehre is no “cycle” of violence, a cycle assuems that if one party stops from retaliating then all would end, this is not the case in israel, everytime a dovish head of state was elected suicide bombs have been used
  • Israel is indeed the number one proponent of humane conduct in battle and its supreme court is the most progressive in the world. period.

anyone who disputes this is false, does not haev his facts straight or is merely practicing revisionist history,
the palestinians have been victimized even worse by their leaders then israel could have ever done, this was expressed by Prince Bandar the saudi ambassador who in private called Arafats rejection of Baraks proposel and the subsequent launching of the Intifida to be the greatest crime ever perpetrated against the palestinians with 3000 completely avoidable deaths, on both sides,
and anyone who thinks the palestinians are the david in this scenario should take a look at a map once in ahwile ,

What does this map tell us? That Israel is a small country. OK.
Well, if Israel’s leaders are so humane then why did the Hague put Ariel Sharon on trial for war crimes comitted by him and others in the Sabra and Shetala refugee camps in Lebanon in '82 which resulted in the deaths of 1000s of Lebanese civilians, including women and children.
if Israel is so peaceful then did it attack one of our ships, the USS Liberty in order to make it seem as if Egyptians attacked that ship?
I am Jewish, as stated before. I am just simply sick of the whining and complaining over Israel and anti-Semitism as stated before too.
And oh yeah, if Israel has the right to be Jewish dominated and an apartheid state then why should the USA not be a white dominated state?
[/quote]

The U.S. Constitution doesn’t provide for that! However, Israel was set up precisely as a Jewish State. Even so, this “apartheid state” as you shamfully call Israel, has Arab citizens as well as Arab members of the Kinesset. So much for you trying to equate Israel with an evil and ugly system of forced subjugation of the majority from invading minorities.

As a Jew, you are pathetic!

Oh, you would not like it if that happened, would ya? Oh no, you would not want that would you? A white dominated state would be like…uh…umm…Germany, 1933-1945! See then you do not like it. A lot of leftist Jewish idiots did not like Serbia to be Serbian too. Like Wesley Clark and Madeline Albright decided to send Serbia back to the stone age when the Serbs wanted to be SERBS! But Israel is a different story. Look, cut the mealy mouthed, overly arrogant drivel. Then maybe anti-Semitism will go down.
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[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
Guttus Gumptuous wrote:
I just had to continue on #8. What about Jewish anti-Gentilists, so to speak? You know, I really think Menachim Schneerson and Maurice Samuels had great things to say about non-Jews. Especially when Schneerson stated in his writings that the souls of Gentiles are of Satanic spheres and when Samuels wrote of how he took pleasure in European culture being destroyed by Jews.

I think you should rethink your statement that you are not a self-hating Jew, because you surely sound like one.

You can laugh all you want about whatever you want, but things in Germany didn’t begin with our people being thrown into gas chambers, it was incidious anti-semitism that went unchecked and unchallenged.

You might call it whinning, but I am sure that the 6 million who perished would have wanted someone to “whine” for them.

Think about it before you disparage your own people…[/quote]

I, in fact have relatives who died in WW2! So did Israel Shahak and Boaz Evron, Jewish scholars who have views similar to mine!

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[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
Guttus Gumptuous wrote:
I just had to continue on #8. What about Jewish anti-Gentilists, so to speak? You know, I really think Menachim Schneerson and Maurice Samuels had great things to say about non-Jews. Especially when Schneerson stated in his writings that the souls of Gentiles are of Satanic spheres and when Samuels wrote of how he took pleasure in European culture being destroyed by Jews.

I think you should rethink your statement that you are not a self-hating Jew, because you surely sound like one.

You can laugh all you want about whatever you want, but things in Germany didn’t begin with our people being thrown into gas chambers, it was incidious anti-semitism that went unchecked and unchallenged.

You might call it whinning, but I am sure that the 6 million who perished would have wanted someone to “whine” for them.

Think about it before you disparage your own people…[/quote]

And although I have relatives who died in WW2 because of Nazism, I say, yes it was terrible and it happened. But I also realize that other people have been through holocausts: Ukrainians, Poles, Armenians, Serbians, Chinese, and yes, even Germans, etc. Yet, to this day, I see them as recognizing their own sad past and MOVING ON!

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[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:

OK, but if I remember my Old Testament the Jews took the land from the Canaanites now didn’t they? So isn’t it their land then, by your amazing logic?

Well, if you want to go Biblical, then fine. God told the Jews to go into the land of Cannan and to drive out the inhabitants, because clearly God gave the Jewish people the land.

Now, if you can find any of the Canninites, and all of the other “ites,” well good luck – because none of them exist today. So I guess by your implied logic – the last people standing win – we win!

I think you’d have as easy a time finding Canaanites and Jebusites as you would figuring out those Jews who are descendants of those dispossessed in 70 AD and those whose ancestors left long before for Alexandria, Tarsus, or any of the many other heavily Jewish cities of the Mediterranean at that time. And it should be pretty clear that the people living in a land for the last thousand and some years are “the last people standing.”

Completely and utterly False. Just you saying this doesn’t make it so. You accuse ME of being “ignorant,” but you clearly show your ignorance here.

I hate to break it to you, but you can try to find some Jebusites, or any other “ites” that you want, but you are “talking” to a real live Israelite here. I am a decendent of those who were in the land and then displaced out of our land back in AD 70. My ancestor Abraham, is buried in Hebron (which I had the privilege of visting in 1999). We, the Jewish people, have survived as God has promised in His Word, and we have a claim to this land that is eternal, Biblical, and bears the marks of God’s blessings.
[/quote]

If you can trace your ancestry back 2,000 years that’s pretty impressive, but I HIGHLY doubt most Israelis can do that.

Um, yeah, I said that a couple of sentences above. You either have problems with reading comprehension or you’re trying, badly, to suggest I’m ignorant or insensitive.

What “facts” could you possibly be talking about? The fact that until 70 AD Palestine was the historic homeland of the Jewish people? No one is disputing that. You’re still ignoring the fact that Zionism began as a secular movement to find a sanctuary for Jews, not as a quest to reclaim Palestine for Judaism. Here’s a fact: in 1896 in his “The Jewish State”, Theodor Herzl wrote that a part of Argentina would be an equally viable option for a Jewish state. So how is Zionism intrinsically linked to a Jewish state in Palestine, remind me?

Following the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire, Palestine became a British Mandate under the authority of the League of Nations. The mandate system was supposed to prepare a country for eventual sovereignty (see the rest of the League Mandates, like Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq). Palestine would have followed the same path to statehood , and only failed to become a sovereign state because its independence was pre-empted by Jewish settlers (freedom fighters or terrorists, depending on how you look at it).