I see, so keep my expectations limited and may have to shift to orals to see more results rather than staying test only
did you not read my comments? I was arguing for the op as someone said he shouldn’t start and was yapping about the right age to start.
Nah fuck believing.
Anyway I looked at the wrong data. Good lifts
Who was that?
Okay. I suppose we are on the same page.
As to the right age to start AAS, with those with phenomenal genetics the right age to start AAS is much more complex.
I don’t have a good answer. I know that I started at age 22 after lifting weights for only 3 years and I feel it was the right age for me. I don’t have a case for a 1%er of the top 1% to not take AAS, if there is no rule that prohibits the use of AAS in his endeavor.
I saw Casey Viator as a guest poser at the first contest I entered in November of 1970. At the age of 18 Casey placed 3rd in the 1970 Mr America and won MOST MUSCULAR. That is a genetic freak. (Don’t consider crediting Arthur Jones for that placing. It was at the 1970 Mr America that Arthur Jones first met Casey. There is a good chance that Casey was taking AAS at that time.)
No, that’s not exactly what I meant. I’m simply saying that you should not have too high expectations considering your natural baseline. I’m also not a fan of oral too much and they tend to not provide lasting results. My point is simply that I’ll keep your expectations and check and each cycle should build up upon the last. You can add one compound per cycle as needed once you learn how your body reacts to the first one.
Regarding oral, they are OK but simply do not add as much lasting muscle on their own as injectables typically. They are an OK adjunct to Test. If you want to really start packing on mass, you would probably want to try the testosterone first and then add something like Nandrolone ( second cycle ), which is a really good mass gainer.
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My thought is based on your focus being strength, if you want to try AAS, start with low doses.
I started with 10mg/day of Dianabol (cycling 8 weeks on and 8 weeks off) which I raised to 15mg/day after two years, and later to 20mg/day. I made steady progress building on each cycle increasing my weight from [165lbs to about 200lbs naturally] 200lbs on AAS (Dianabol only) to 220lbs all at about the same percent body fat. I made steady strength gains the entire time from 165lbs to 220lbs, which is the weight I was when competing in Powerlifting (490lb squat, 380lb bench, 650lb deadlift) for about 18 months before I hurt my back.
My point is low doses. We didn’t know back in the early to mid 1970’s about a testosterone base and therefore primary used Dianabol only. I believe @blshaw has a good suggestion of stacking Deca on top of a testosterone base. I would run the first cycle of 100mg/wk of Deca on top of 300mg/wk testosterone base. If you get good results run it again. Once you seem to make little to no progress on a cycle increase the Deca to 200mg/wk.
If for no other reason that you are not interested in bodybuilding competition, I would recommend starting AAS after you turn 21 years old. Time is still on your side for increasing a solid foundation for more power and strength.
I helped Charles Bailey start his quest into Powerlifting. He didn’t need much help from me. He started competing in Powerlifting at age 42 or so. By the time he turned 50 he had a 1,100lb squat and a 2,500+lb total in the 275lb Class in a meet. (It was a support gear meet)
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a guy called OyAmPipMayo who suggested op waits until he is 50.
Suggesting he wait until fifty is not the same as saying
It is important to be concise with your words and to read carefully. Most seem to have lost the thread of this discussion, so let me refresh.
OP inquired about using gear. Several suggested he wait until his brain develops. One member doubted steroids affected brain development. I pointed out that the affects of steroids on brain development were not the concern. The ability to consider long term consequences without a fully developed brain is the concern. This is where the thread got off the rails as a member questioned decisions such as attending college and drinking alcohol before having a fully developed brain. Obviously, those two decisions aren’t apples to apples comparisons.
This was when you joined the conversation and defended using steroids before having a fully developed brain - something you did at twenty three.
In hindsight, I would not have used steroids at all. But I am not that committed to either argument. I try to offer information and experience for others to consider.
I don’t think that is yapping, but suit yourself.
Peace!
I was listening to a podcast last night about borderline personality disorder and they sited one of the leading causes is issues with the frontal cortex while the brain in still developing.
That being said, the effects of steroids in a developing brain are the main issue.
The persons ability to think properly because of an underdeveloped FC is a secondary issue IMO but definitely a contributor.
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My bad. Not the first time I have misinterpreted things, won’t be the last. Having struggled with executive function myself informs my view of the world.
I am not much, but I am all I think about.
High levels of androgens alter neurotransmitter activity in your brain and increase physical density in regions that affect mood.
Because you’re still developing, your brain is wiring “pathways” and connections that will ultimately shape how you perceive the world and operate in it.
Throwing a bunch of androgens in during the building phase of your brain would sort of be like dropping water in a paint can. You’ll still have paint and if nobody saw the before and after it could seem like it’s the way it’s supposed to be, but really it’s not the same paint.
The problem is that test specifically alters mood regulation, and given your “Highway” for processing is still being built, there’s no way to know what the long term effect will be. Could be you just have more of an “edge” than you might have. Could also be that you wind up depressed by screwing with glutamate and serotonin receptors while forming, or an inability to regulate emotion.
It’s not like you’ll turn in to another species, but you are taking a gamble on long term outcome.
But hey, you’ll never be able to compare after the fact so you’ll never really know how they affected you I guess.
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I appreciate the feedback and will most likely re-evaluate at the end of this year. I’ve posted my new training program in this thread and would appreciate if you could leave your thoughts on the best way to approach natural training moving forward. Thank y’all
(Diet is nothing special, eating with a goal of 1g/lb bw protein, rest majority carbs, and 300 calories surplus)
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