This next part of the thread is going to be Phat for sure! Very rarely has anyone discussed the “fat load” before.
Thunder, keep it rockin’ now!
Thanks for your massive input on this thread as you have certainly taught me a few things.
Thunder, you do recommend something like “taraxatone” in the last week. When should one use it and at what dosage. Thanks!
LW
Wow…can’t wait for the fat load…
While we’re waiting for the big Thunder striker to give us some more specs, I’ll see if I can’t do some teasing in the meantime.
First of all, when we say Fat Load, I don’t necessarily think that the fat content on this day is going to be of supreme portions. That is, I don’t forsee the fat load guidelines being up to par with the carbohydrate guidelines of the first day. What we’re going to see is a slight drop in the carbohydrate recommendations (i.e. 5-6g/kg LBM) and an increase in kcals from fat. That is, the percentage of kcals from carbs will be lower than on the first day, while the percentage from fat will be higher.
Why is the concept of Fat Loading so revolutionary? Why do we need to crank up the fat? While many individuals realize that skeletal muscle (as well as the liver) stores carbohydrate (i.e. muscle glycogen) and uses that as substrate during activity (i.e. resistance training), many fail to realize that there are also significant stores of triglyceride within that same skeletal muscle mass. These are called intramuscular triglycerides (IMTGs). IMTGs also play a significant role in substrate utilization during those same intensities that muscle glycogen does.
That being the case, if we can top off both intramuscular stores–muscle glycogen and IMTGs–then we should have optimally supercompensated.
L-Dub…Using a diuretic like Taraxatone, Dandelion Root, etc. is likely advised. However, they’re not that potent. Following label directions for Taraxatone is probably fine.
Timbo, fantastic overview of the final week thus far. Just two quick comments. I have never used fig newtons so cannot comment on their effectiveness in a carb up. And I’ve only ever used cashews as the nut source. Again, I tend to stick with what’s worked every time.
Lowell, Taraxatone is a good OTC diuretic if one isn’t using real diuretics. If you’re going to use it start it early enough so your body gets used to eliminating water. Just make sure to keep your water sky high. Assuming a Saturday show/shoot, I think a safe bet would be to start Taraxatone Monday.
Timbo, thoughts on these two?
Pascoe, DD et al. Glycogen resynthesis in skeletal muscle following resistive exercise. Med Sci Sports Exer (1993) 25: 349-354.
Coyle EF. Substrate utilization during exercise in active people. Am J Clin Nutr (1995) 61 (suppl): 968S-979S.
Alright here we go … Day 2 of the carb up. Timbo gave a good overview of what’s to come.
As far as percentages and the numbers go, I’m usually going with 5g/kg LBM in carbs which would make up anywhere from 50-60% of the total daily calories. Protein usually sits at or around 1g/lb and fat is around 25%. However these total do NOT include one meal, which is the big one to come after the water is cut. I don’t count any numbers from this meal … it’s a time where you just EAT.
To be a little more specific, water is still really high on this day as well, but then again, that depends on what ‘extras’ are being used to drop it. If a herbal diuretic is being used, I’d keep the water high. If a real diuretic is being used, the approach can be different.
First meal of the day is solid protein with the oatmeal/pie filling again and again about 6-7 hrs later. Typically they’re separated by 2 meals.
Carb choices usually switch from white potatoes and rice cakes to sweet potatoes/yams.
Protein at these meals will come from either ground sirloin or extra lean ground beef or chicken.
If using the latter, I’ll typically add cashews to the meal to get the fat up.
This day goes totally against the Massive Eating guidelines, since I make sure to have carbs and fats in the same meal.
Assuming the first meal comes at about 6am, you’ll probably get in about 5 meals before it’s time to cut the water. Mind you, that’s assuming a 10am shoot/show the next day.
18hrs out, CUT THE WATER. No more drinking. You can sip as needed, but again, I emphasize AS NEEDED.
Just a reminder, all protein in the last week comes from solid food outside of the first two post-depletion workout meals.
More later…
Timbo nice recap, thanks. Thunder, how do you feel about “posing sessions” like Thibaudeau talks about in article 262 Rapid Fire, in terms of it’s value for contest pics. I have tried glycerol before and I think it sucks, but those Shawn Phillips before and afters were damn impressive, anyway why do you disreguard it? One more question (for now) when you’re in this “carbbed up” state do you feel like you’ve got a my OOOHHHH YEAAAHH! MY SKIN FEELS LIKE IT’S GONNA TEAR OFF MY BODY! type of pump? By the way I haven’t made many posts yet(I don’t know why?) but I have been reading T-Mag for a few years now and I think it’s like a sore dick, ya just can’t beat it. I’ve trained a few people and made up numerous training routines and diets for my friends and a couple of girls I’ve dated plus I worked in a retail vitamin shoppe for 2 years. Once biotest came in the store I began scanning the internet to see if there was anything even remotley beyond jerked off pictures of some skinny pale d-bag all slouched over, or even worse some bloated out moonfaced crap eating bag of sauce showing after pictures of them rediculously jacked off of your product. Instead I found a freakin goldmine, more training, supplement, diet, humor, and drug info than a consolidation of every issue of muscle media 2000 I owned (I had all of them). I honestly can say that just about every time I leave your site I find myself telling someone throughout the course of my day how freaking phenominal it is, I recommend Hot-Rox to just about everyone I know for the summer, I’ve lost 1.5% bodfat in three weeks and my weight on the scale is the same. Sorry about the long post but I’m not usually in the tradition of ridin’ someones dick, however you guys are the unprescedented gods of the 'Rone and I’m ready for the jump off this summer lookin fresh and stunna.
how essential is the pie filling? Are there substitutes?
Heller, despite a post chock-full of wisdom and chuckles, the afore-quoted phrase lit me up, bro! I am really liking that one and I think it puts into a slightly different perspective many of our feelings for T-Mag and Biotest. I look forward to many more of your posts and future insight:-
As far as your questions, posing is an absolute must! In large part due to the mentions Chris discusses in Rapid Fire, but also so you don’t look like a dumbass on the stage or in front of the camera! Anyone who’s interested in any type of physique competition or photo shoot should be practicing their asses off at posing.
Thunder, my man, you keep us in captivation for several hours and then you absoultely do an outstanding job of presenting us with more great material. Only to leave us with another cliff-hanger! I must say that the guidelines you present go somewhat against classical methods of carbohydrate loading, but that’s the beauty of it all. Continually pushing the envelope.
Thunder, I didn’t mean to offer counsel, in the way of optional food choices, that went against your experiences or train of thought. Rather, it was simply in effort to offer more food choices. The bottom line was that high GI carb sources were superior, and your body will not look unfavorably upon normally-considered crappy carbs (i.e. fig newtons).
I also cited the Coyle reference earlier, buddy:-) The highest numbers I’m seeing–as I have the article in front of me at the moment–are 7-8 mmol/kg/hr. You asked me what I thought of it? Well, I have the utmost respect for Dr. Coyle and his work. I look to him for only the best and most accurate information.
I’ll see if I can’t put a cap on day two’s ass tomorrow. Thanks, Thunder!
Timbo and Thunder,
Thanks for the replies, bros.
got to keep this on the first page…
awaiting that one meal, and pre shoot.
Timbo, my mistake on that one reference. I noticed that after I posted it.
However, what about the other one? That’s where my original 12mmol figure came from.
As far as going against the classical methods of carb loading, do a poll of competitors and most will tell you that the classical method has not yielded good and consistent results. As a result, many have chosen to scrap the whole depletion/load cycle and just go in as is, as opposed to taking another chance.
Classical carb loading just doesn’t seem to work that well in many people. It works yes, but with lots of carbs seems to come lots of water, so rather than keep going with the carbs, I choose to use fats to continue filling out. The combination of the two is what gives that full, dry look.
Ryan, no substitutes for pie filling. Are you trying to tell me you don’t like pie filling?
Thunder, yeah, bro, I’ll check out that other reference.
I agree about the classical loading procedures being a potential toss-up. We really don’t like to leave things up to chance, so better not to if we know the path to excellence.
As far as the carbs bringing and holding too much agua, have you tried varying the carb sources, Thunder? For example, have you had your clients try drier carb sources (i.e. cookies, candy, etc.) in lieu of oats and carbs with higher water content?
I guess I’ve got a little more incentive to get ripped to the bone again. I’d really like to try this someday and just walk down Sixth St. at night!
Thunder,
I couldn’t agree with you more on the carbs+fat for that full, dry look. Of course I was all about the classical method for fear of fat regain, but after trial and error, many, many times, it is very clear that the both of them are crucial.
Vain
I’m not saying i don’t like pie filling. Just saying i don’t have it right now.
In tremendous suspence for the next meal, and pre shoot.
Ladies and Gentlemen, this has quickly turned into a five-star, bookmarked thread. Thanks, Thunder, you da man!
Now, let’s put the cap on Day Two so Thunder can help us out with the big day.
Day Two: The Fat Load, revisited:
*NO Training on this day, the day before the competition or shoot. Water should begin at the same intake as it has been previously (i.e. you should be visiting the potty very, very often).
*Carbohydrate today should be approximately half of Day One. That is, you should be shooting for 5g/kg LBM. This should constitute about 50-60% of total kcals for the day.
*Protein should be in the 1g/lb range, while Fat intake is cranked up to about 25% of total kcals.
*Note: The aforementioned Carbohydrate, Protein, Fat, and KCal guidelines do not include the Get Your Grub On feast.
*Carbohydrate sources should be predominantly yams/sweet potatoes. Again on Day Two, two meals (Meal One and another about 6 hrs. later) should be comprised of oatmeal and pie filling (yes, Ryan, sugary-ass pie filling!) accompanied by a whole-food protein source.
*Protein sources should ground sirloin or extra lean ground beef today to get the fat intake up. Alternatively, chicken breast can be used but should be complemented with cashews.
*Bring on the F-U-N! 18 hours prior to showtime, cut water and get ready to watch your body make drastic, drastic changes right before your very eyes. Endulge in the pre-game meal, per se, and sip water sparingly, on an as-needed basis only.
Thunder, what is your opinion on creatine. I’ve been using it at 7g/day throughout the last 8 weeks and would like to continue. I talked with Timbo about this and we both seem to think that it would be fine to continue. What are your thoughts on dropping it out 7 days before the shoot?