I significantly edited this so you aren’t going crazy if it looks pretty different.
It is great news that your tendons/muscles appear intact and functional and your shoulder flexibility, mobility, and daily functionality is good. Knowing that it shuts down when fatigued is good, too, because there isn’t any point trying to keep training it once it has gone on holiday.
My therapist said I would never be able to OHP serious weight or safely do C&J/snatches because of the tremendous strain these lifts place on the shoulder joint.
When the muscles are working together in concert… Then aren’t the muscles rather than the joints bearing the brunt? This seems to be the case with spinal joints (recent article on T nation about using the muscles to spare the joints and how people with pain and without pain often have similarly fucked up spines on MRI but those without pain seem to have better muscular development). Why would shoulders be different?
At some point, you have to decide that lifelong wellness and a pain-free existence supersede the ego’s desire for a short-lived endorphin rush and a moment in the spotlight. Or at least I do.
Yes. But I don’t see why one can’t do both. I mean… You haven’t gone total balls to the wall with your bench never mind your shoulder. Isn’t the main motivation for your shoulder rehab so that you can bench more? If you didn’t care about your bench why would you bother rehabbing it given that your daily functionality is good?
Alexus: I’m sure my physical therapist meant that my shoulder in general (muscles, tendons, ligaments, etc.) would be put under undue strain if I were to pursue the Oly lifts. And of course there’s a happy medium in every situation, including powerlifting now and quality of life later.
Yes, I want to bench more. That is my motivator regarding rehab at this point since activities of daily living are just fine as is. Truth be told, I’d like to compete at a national meet someday. And while my DL is acceptable and my squat will be close enough, it’s only my lame bench that’s holding me back.
Today was bench day. I did external rotation cuff stuff, bench press, standing lat pulldown, overhead cable tricep extension, seated row (both unilaterally and as a unit), pecs on the pec deck, straight leg raise from a dip position, and tricep pushups.
And how the whole premise of the sport is pushing your body to the max and beyond. Over and over and over again. At some point, you have to decide that lifelong wellness and a pain-free existence supersede the ego’s desire for a short-lived endorphin rush and a moment in the spotlight. Or at least I do.[/quote]
…i’m 29 and am experiencing this. :{
i think the hardest part is finding something else to replace that. its not easy!
i dunno… i guess i’ve become a firm believer in ‘how much you want it’ which is probably another way of saying ‘the intelligent and sustained effort required for baby steps towards whatever your goal is’. the health profession works with stats. so you get to be lumped in with other people who are thought to be similar in relevant ways… age… gender… whatever.
what the majority of people seem to lack is motivation. people like to work with athletes because they tend to comply with the physical therapy recommendations because they are motivated to get their performance back. non-athletes often can’t be bothered doing their exercises as regularly as they should and they satisfice with whatever functionality they have. so if you only cared about your daily functionality then your shoulder would be considered good enough as is.
according to the stats i shouldn’t be able to walk without crutches. i shouldn’t be able to lift the weights i’m lifting now, and i sure as hell shouldn’t be able to do the Olympic lifts. and i can’t do the Olympic lifts. my toes need to get better. they aren’t supposed to be able to get better (plug in the stats) but with my daily exercises… they ARE getting better. I WILL be able to jerk comfortably… if it takes me 10 years. dammit.
if you really really really really wanted to do the Oly lifts… so much so that you intelligently put in a sustained effort towards getting the muscles working properly for the movement then very gradually increasing the loading on the movement in such a way that the muscles, ligaments, tendons, and bones had the time to adapt… then i’m bloody sure you could to them. if you put your mind to it. if you choose not to (because you have other goals that are more important to you) then that is fine. but that is YOUR decision - not something forced upon you because of your shoulder.
I have resigned myself to the fact that i’ll never be able to sprint. i’m not supposed to be able to walk without crutches and i’m certainly not supposed to be able to sprint. i haven’t resigned myself to not being able to sprint because they told me i can’t, though. it is more that i see something of just how much effort and time it would take in order for me to be able to sprint (involves walking first, jogging second etc) and… that goal simply isn’t worth it to me. i don’t want to sprint that much. a lot, yes. but not the years it would take for me to get there in an intelligent way.
ignore me if you like. i just really hate to see people feel limited by injuries rather than feeling like they are only limited by the choices they make. blah. don’t know if this makes much sense…
Then I got the “talking to.” About how I’m not 25 anymore (45.5, in fact) and now have five anchors in my shoulder. And how I must listen to my body and make my rehab exercises a priority for life to ensure structural balance. We also talked a bit about the sport of powerlifting in general. And how the whole premise of the sport is pushing your body to the max and beyond. Over and over and over again. At some point, you have to decide that lifelong wellness and a pain-free existence supersede the ego’s desire for a short-lived endorphin rush and a moment in the spotlight. Or at least I do.[/quote]
Unless this PT is a powerlifter himself, I’d take every single word of the above with a big grain of salt. I’ve found that unless my treatment providers are exactly as committed to the same sports I am, their advice is not very useful.
Powerlifting, like any sport, can be pursued intelligently or can be pursued like a dumb-ass. Perhaps a 25 year old has the luxury of taking the dumb-ass approach. We certainly don’t, but that doesn’t mean that we can’t excel. You are intelligent and disciplined and committed. I firmly believe you can achieve whatever goals you set, assuming those goals are somewhat reasonable. It will just take alot of listening to your body and scut work in order to get there.
DixiesFinest: 29? I’m a wee bit older than that. But not much.
Alexus and Kimba: Thank you for that very well thought out advice. The bottom line is that “where there’s a will there’s a way.” I agree and will keep persevering.
Mimsie: Coaching, eh? Yes, I’ve considered it. My coach himself says I should be a coach to others because of my passion. He also believes that I should get certified to be a PL ref.
The ugly truth is that I’m a pretty horrid DLer as far as form is concerned. I cannot get my hips down and instead pull from a position of having my back almost parallel to the floor. However, I can pull a fair amount of weight for my size. Trying to figure that one out.
After my speed sets, my coach had me try pulling by rolling the bar out and then rolling it in to commence the lift. He’s trying to help me find some cue to dip my hips when I initiate the pull.
1/140
Hmm.
Then I decided to piss around and try some front squats in honor of all the Oly lifting happening in these parts.
Front Squat with Clean Grip
5/45
3/75
1/95
1/105
1/110
1/115 (slightly more than 1x BW)
Here’s a vid. I found it hard to sit down in the narrow stance since I’ve trained myself to sit back with a wide stance. So this felt very awkward. Any feedback is welcome.
Finished up with:
Wide-Stance Squat
5/45
5/95
2/5/115
Will do lower body accessory work tomorrow along with shoulder rehab.
Snap - I’m 41, new to the sport, and injury free, but I’ve also wondered about the wisdom of pushing myself because I’d like to keep it that way. I enjoy lifting so much, I’d like to be able to do it for as long as I can. It seems to me, that if you listen to your body, you’ll know when something is getting dangerous for you. You understand the mechanics of these things very well, and how to use technique that will protect it. Alexus is such an inspiration. I’m just amazed.
No feedback on the squats except they look good to me!
you guys are all so inspiring for me. in terms of having goals that are worthwhile and working hard towards them.
i like what kimba said about pursing goals like a dumb-ass. how the young / non beat up can get away with it. i need to remember that sometimes. with jerking. sometimes i’m oh so tempted to be a dumb-ass about it and just do them already.
i’m really hoping i can get a bodyweight front squat by the end of the year. it is my next big squat goal, anyway. can do 2/3 bodyweight occasionally for a single. not reliably, though. that squat looked good to me snapper. i’m gonna be so happy when i can do that.
hard to tell from the side… but is it possible for you to push your knees out harder with your current stance in order to give your torso a little more space for it to be able to drop down in a more upright position? i have heard that a certain amount of forward lean (and you really don’t have much) is inevitable, though. i bet i’m just nitpicking. i’m gonna be so happy when i can do that.
your top does look great! and cute pigtails indeed. are you starting to feel less self-conscious wearing it?
are you going to see about getting certified? heh.
Snap, I’ve read the last page or two with a great deal of interest. You’ve come a long way back from your injury and shown a great deal of patience and perseverence. They are a lot of well thought out opinions on either side of the equation.
You don’t want to destroy your body when you have the rest of your life that you have to live. However, if you’re like me, finding this sport was like finding a part of myself I didn’t know was there. For years I was a bit envious of my (now ex) husband because of his passion for soccer. I envied that he had something like that, that lit him up. By accident, I found an oddball kind of thing that does that for me. If I had to give it up, it would be like up more than a quest for a 500lb squat.
We all have something different that does this for us and it’s a shame and very sad if we have to walk away from it. It kind of makes things a bit grey. Women in particular are programmed to please everyone else and shy away from competition. I think you’ll find that as we age, we tend to give less of a fuck about what other people think and are more inclined to kick ass because we want to win.
I hope that with careful training and PT, you will carry on and move forward with it.
I’ve heard of people who got injuries go through lots and lots of PT, then months later move into easy training, they kept going, and eventually brought their bodies up to competitive level. It takes a lot of dedication and patience. Check out the story of wrestler Triple H, he got a quad tear, I believe, yet came back a year or 2 later.
I guess I’ll be the bad cop, with the omnipresent caveat that my squatting sucks; which also means I think about how to improve my squat form all-the-time.
You start off with the elbows up (upper arms parallel to the floor), but they start to go down as you squat down, which means your upper back (thoracic) is rounding, since your lower back seems to be maintaining it’s arch. I don’t know if it’s “right” or not, but I personally need to do the “retract and rotate down” thing with my scapulae as a cue to keep my elbows up/upper back tight. Mike Boyle is totally right about one thing when it comes to the squat(s) -they’re as much of a back exercise as they are a leg exercise.
As mentioned, it’s hard to tell from the side, but the leg form (pun intended) looks fine to me…I guess that’s the good cop!
about one thing when it comes to the squat(s) -they’re as much of a back exercise as they are a leg exercise.