Strength/Talent Discrepancy in Athletes

Ti~

Actually that is very close, but here is the deal:

The muscle must be strong enough so that the GTR won’t inhibit the muscles stiffness.

Think of it this way, the muscle locks up so the tendon (rubber band) can absorb force. If the energy is too high and rapid, the GTR will inhibit the muscle locking up…so it slackens and the tendon force is lost…(the rubber band is not longer stretched).

So, not only must the athlete train a muscle to be extraordinarily strong to lock up, but it must be trained to lock up and not “get spooked” so to speak by force entering very rapidly…

By training properly, it is possible to inhibit the GTR…so it will not prevent the muscle from holding taught.

Most average Joe’s cannot absorb force properly with isometric muscles…if the muscle isn’t stiffer than the tendon, it will be the muscle that stretches…and that is crap for performance… so, get the muscle to hold isometrically taught, and let the tendon complex absorb the force…so it will spring back involunarily on the concentric phase… musles contract, not spring back with efficiency…

so for the elastic complex to work: muscles hold taught (iso), and tendon complex absorbs force. The added benefit comes involuntarily, and is only hampered by trying to go faster or jump higher…

hope this helps…

jumanji

Ti~

As to the other post, you are right on the ball…

My point earlier was mostly that from a former defensive back coach, Adam looks like a half wit doing the drill on Jay’s ‘Freak of Training’ video. I have had smoother high school kids, and much smoother college kids…but Adam explodes in every direction, is dedicated like few others, and is tough and aggressive…

I certainly wouldn’t say he had talent, but no athleticism…

i would say his newfound athleticism makes him look more talented…

Or, maybe they just edited out his crappy clips…

Not sure…

I believe the reason there aren’t more Adams is because of the socio-economics and cultural differences. Most suburban white kids don’t want to train like Adam, and most “at-risk” kids could never afford the educated coaching…

So we are stuck in this painful self-fulfilling prophesy…

It’s a shame…

Jumanji

Great posts BTW…

and my answer about the tendon complex wasn’t meant to be demeaning at all, i am just tired, and typed it very quickly…

would love to talk shop and learn from you sometime…

sounds like you have some great experience… would embrace some wisdom…

and yes, i saw US Air Force guy at the Louisville Sport Specific conference… I actually have a former athlete ther right now, as a back-up nose, I beleieve. I was heartbroken after seeing the presentation… oh-well…at least the weightroom looks kool…

talk soon…

J

Great feedback, certainly thought out. I do feel that there are many traits that can be trained that are not. By the time an athlete is 18 the window is up so to speak. Is Baggets site Higher-faster-stronger? Is there another site of similiar material? Also, is the reason Shroader never gets any attention is because he doesn’t want any. Hell, Poliquin takes an All Pro guy and his legs fall apart and Jae takes someone from an OK Pac 10 school and he is a first rounder.

That is Kelly’s site. He has always been a good guy by me, and is worth taking a look at… very bright guy.

I am not sure Jay’s niche strategy. If he truly trains his guys as many times per week as he claims, his programs may be tough to implement by others…the dedication needed is very high indeed. He is also very knowledgeable, and his approach is unique.

As for Charles, I cannot comment on his successes, as he certainly has far more experience than me, and works with a much higher level of athlete on average. I have arranged my programs according to a number of his ‘Principles’ and they have worked very well as far as I am concerned. I can only say good things from my perspective.

I think there is still much learning to do, but with such conservative governing bodies, I am not sure when the process will be formalized.

Couple that fact with the simple notion that studies never seperate athletes by current training needs, so you always get skewed (screwed) results.

Take a rate dominant guy and train him on a strength protocol, and he will get results. take a Strength dominant guy and do the same program, and you may not see results…the inverse is always true…

But most studies just lump all athletes together, assuming that all athletes will benefit similarly to a stimulus…

this is just not appropriate for the supposed best minds in the business.

It is saying that we have no way to group these athletes according to training needs by means of testing…

And that some cookie cutter, one size fits all program will work for all athletes, or may not work for any athletes…blah, blah, blah…

bunk.

Let’s get a sample of certain types of athletes with similar needs (and / or strengths), and then let’s see what training protocols supply the most benefit…

Maybe I have just outlined a doctoral thesis and not even realized it…hmmm.

J

J,

As far as GTR inhibition is concerned, it is interesting to note that the idea is to treat the tendon and muscle as seperate in their contributions to the action. This is obviously important when discussing the training needs and performance traits of individual athletes. This is where I came to in trying to understand the differences in physical qualities (as judged by traditional methods) of baseball and fastpitch softball pitchers. Why do some people who are powerful as hell on standard tests throw 10+ mph slower than a person who is built like a distance athlete and performs horribly on the same tests. Randy Johnson and Pedro come to mind. I know that lever lengths and technique and to some slight degree fibre typing may have something to do with it, but there are people built just like them with great tech who can’t break a pane of glass. Fibre typing is largely a waste of time anyway as there is no hard evidence that there is even a casual relationship between it and velocity. Some guys can run a marathon and throw 90.

This led me to the conclusion that the differences must lie in the ability to recruit motor units properly and to exhibit great elasticity in the joint structures (and not simply those of the arm, but the entire body). Now here is where I get off the train- I have not had the opportunity in the last three years to work one to one with anybody on sc due to the fact that I train over 100 athletes per week and most of this is skill based (softball pitching and hitting). What strength stuff I do now is in group format and requires that we treat a few people alike. I HATE IT and we are expanding our sc stuff soon in order to accomodate better methods. Not that I don’t get results now- we have some of the very strongest kids in the southeast- but I am certain that we are not accomplishing three very important goals:

  1. All out maximum benefit to each individual.

  2. Specific increases in sport specific demands.

  3. The ever decreasing margin for error with the advanced athlete.

What we have been doing is cutting edge by most standards, but I feel that there are kids in the program who about to stagnate unless we move in a new direction. Up until now, we have just been getting to a point of general fitness and seeing a lot of carryover.

I do much more skill work with athletes now than when I was working at the instituional level and have been away from the cutting edge sc stuff for about three years. NOBODY that I knew was even talking about this stuff then although the info was beginning to show up obviously.

I will be out of town doing clinics this weekend, but I will PM you when I get back. I am interested to start looking into the resources you have named. It is nice to find subject matter that is challenging for a change. I am not an egotist when it comes to this stuff, but I just got to a point where I was the best around here and couldn’t find anything to learn from. You are obviously ahead on the specifics of this line of thinking and I look forward to furthering the discussion.

I believe the reason there aren’t more Adams is because of the socio-economics and cultural differences. Most suburban white kids don’t want to train like Adam, and most “at-risk” kids could never afford the educated coaching…

Fantastic point here. One of the things I deal with all the time is the socio-economic dynamic. As a private skill coach, I work primarily with upper-middle class to affluent kids. There are few ways to get around this as the market demands that pricing be substantial and I will admit to not minding being well paid for my efforts. My pitchers are perennially all-state and college bound so I feel justified in charging at the upper end of the market. But I do realize that there are many kids out there with the inherent ability to go to any level they want, but can’t afford the training to compete with the talented kids who can.

With girls, I have found that nearly all of them will work their asses off if they feel that you genuinely want the best for them. Even the kids who have things fairly easy are tireless workers in my program. Maybe we just attract the best and I am fortunate.

My current business is only three years old, but we are already to a point where we are investigating means to open a non-profit in order to offer the kids who can’t afford it the chance to train there for free. It will be absorbed into the regular training program, so no stigmas will be attached to the kids. No one will even know who is paying and who isn’t. Maybe we can go over ideas on this at some time.

Anytime T… good response…agreed.

I think one thing that gets lost in all of this strength training and FV Curve discussion is how incredibly specific training is.

In others words, unless Adam A. continuously practices the training methods which presumably got him to where he is the effects of that training will quickly diminish.

Now, I don’t know this for a fact but I am willing to bet the training he does with the Rams is quite different than that which he did with the coach in AZ. So, to attribute his success on the field to the training he did to turn professional is not a valid conclusion.

[quote]chris mason wrote:
I think one thing that gets lost in all of this strength training and FV Curve discussion is how incredibly specific training is.

In others words, unless Adam A. continuously practices the training methods which presumably got him to where he is the effects of that training will quickly diminish.

Now, I don’t know this for a fact but I am willing to bet the training he does with the Rams is quite different than that which he did with the coach in AZ. So, to attribute his success on the field to the training he did to turn professional is not a valid conclusion.

[/quote]

The discussion pertained mostly to the point of how one gets to that level. You are right in stating that Adam must continue what he is doing or the results will diminish- that is obvious- but why is there an assumption that he is training with the Rams people now and not Jay? Many pros do their own thing in this area.

As to specificity- rfd, gtc inhibition, fv, are issues of specifity in and of themselves. The key is that specificty must be taken into account with regard to all factors in program design.

Hope this helps.

[quote]titanium350 wrote:
chris mason wrote:
I think one thing that gets lost in all of this strength training and FV Curve discussion is how incredibly specific training is.

In others words, unless Adam A. continuously practices the training methods which presumably got him to where he is the effects of that training will quickly diminish.

Now, I don’t know this for a fact but I am willing to bet the training he does with the Rams is quite different than that which he did with the coach in AZ. So, to attribute his success on the field to the training he did to turn professional is not a valid conclusion.

The discussion pertained mostly to the point of how one gets to that level. You are right in stating that Adam must continue what he is doing or the results will diminish- that is obvious- but why is there an assumption that he is training with the Rams people now and not Jay? Many pros do their own thing in this area.

As to specificity- rfd, gtc inhibition, fv, are issues of specifity in and of themselves. The key is that specificty must be taken into account with regard to all factors in program design.

Hope this helps.[/quote]

a) In-season I believe that NFL players work with the team’s strength coach(es).

b) I suppose my point was that the training which made him a stud in the gym and made him do well at the combine has not really done anything for him on the field of play in the NFL because if I am correct about his training the specific results he obtained from the fellow in Tempe would be long gone by the time he hits the field.

It only takes a few weeks to lose a significant amount of movement specific explosiveness and coordination.

Sorry I’m late to the party, boys! I normally don’t visit this site, quite frankly, but a buddy sent me the link so here I am.

I agree with a lot of what has been said so far, especially the fact that there are a lot of people that disagree with Inno-Sport teachings YET if they had just tried them then there would be nothing left to debate.

But let’s explore what I’ve said that people disagree with so that I can help everyone understand these concepts better.

[quote]a) In-season I believe that NFL players work with the team’s strength coach(es).

b) I suppose my point was that the training which made him a stud in the gym and made him do well at the combine has not really done anything for him on the field of play in the NFL because if I am correct about his training the specific results he obtained from the fellow in Tempe would be long gone by the time he hits the field.

It only takes a few weeks to lose a significant amount of movement specific explosiveness and coordination.[/quote]

I had the luxury of watching Adam play from high school through college, into the NFL. One thing that has always impressed me was his apparent understanding of the game–his uncanny nack of being in the right place at the right time. This is what got him voted on the all-state team as a junior in HS, helped him dominate the Pac 10 and, quite frankly, helped his draft status into the NFL. It’s as if he could sense where the ball was going to end up and beat his opponent to that mark.

Don’t forget, you can do exceptionally well in “performance indicator” tests such as a vertical jump and 40 yard dash, but if your reflexes are poorly conditioned and your knowledge of the game has been insufficiently acquired then you will move around like a dope on the playing field–kind of like how all of us looked the first time we hit the links.

a) Adam was mandated to train with his team at ASU but with St Louis he is given a lot more freedom. So it might actually be more comfortable if he was training under the Rams SC and with Jay “on the side”…but I digress.

I just want to stand up for Adam here; I think he is an exceptional athlete whose career will be just fine in the NFL. Any athlete placed under extreme scrutiny will fail to meet expectations time and time, again.

The only thing debatable is how much ASU’s program helped him in relation to Jay’s “assistance workouts” during this time frame. Or, is it just another example of a natural athlete finding a home in the NFL amongst his fellow freak show brethren? Obviously all three factors played a role in his journey to the NFL. It’s how much each factor contributed to his success that we left to debate.

Peace,
Brad

Brad~

Glad you came over to drop some knowledge…and this is one fan of inno-sport. I appreciate the dpeth of your site, and the knowledge shared in your articles.

As for Adam, I agree with your points and disagree at the same time. I agree that he has an understanding of the game, and has good instincts. But, in looking at him play, I would say that hs fine motor skills are average…tops. I would say he has developed his gross motor skills incredibly well to the point where the rest matters little…

This is where much of the second tier NFL guys are, IMO.

Him being all-state as a junior is a matter of many factors. In my first position as a DB coach at the DII level, I had a 6’1" corner who was an All-American while under me. But, he was a 4.6 guy who was coachable and played zone well. We had an awesome offense and enjoyed a lead in most every game. So, late in the game, my corner walked into an inordinate number of pics… something like 10 or 11. Welcome to All-American status. I am not sure he was the 5th best corner in the conference in terms of ability. But, he trusted coaching, and was in a good situation.

Now, in terms of being a freak-show athlete, my other corner at 5’9", 4.3 forty, swivel hips,etc. was much better. He was All-Region, but for the NFL had better tools if looking at gross motor skills.

The disparity between these two show much of what we both are trying to say, albeit from different approaches.

Skill has many forms. Adam probably has good instincts, is probably very coachable, decent hips, unbelievable explosion (in spite of running form), great dynamic flexibility, and is a tough sumbitch. When I see him judge the ball, catch, and rate his stickiness in man-to-man, he gets lower marks.

In the end, it is his “freakshow athlete” status that allows him to be on the field in the first place… and these are gross motor qualities. This is the baseline required, with only a slight leeway for “natural football players” (guys who just seem to know the game).

This is where my training comes in, and why your work has been quite a bit of help for me to express the problems I see everywhere.

I see slow as molasses kids with great skill… so they lose to athletes… even though the athletes aren’t even players. The baseline athleticism has to be reached before your skill differentiates… or at least that is how I always recruited.

Big DI is prbably different since all they look at is freaks who are accomplished players… but those kids aren’t why our knowledge matters…is it? It is the small DI or DII type kid who needs to progress athletically AND POSSIBLY skillwise.

These are the kids who make me get up every morning bright and early.

Thanks again Brad… just reread TGSTBE on my plane ride home from Tampa. Great work. I may need to get the e-book because my manuscript is dog-eared, highlighted, and noted all to hell!

Coach JR

[quote]Jumanji wrote:
Brad~

Glad you came over to drop some knowledge…and this is one fan of inno-sport. I appreciate the dpeth of your site, and the knowledge shared in your articles.[/quote]

Thanks, bud; it’s always nice to know that our hard work is appreciated. It really excites me to read some of your posts!

In regards to Adam, I must first admit that I don’t lurk on his performance, every play in every game, as some people do. I won’t argue that raw athleticism is important; however, I will often see athletes with less athleticism out play better athletes just because they understand the game. This is true in amateur athletics as well as the pros. For instance, what separates a minor league pitcher from a major league pitcher isn’t velocity on his fastball or bite on his curveball…it’s knowing what to throw in which situations and executing (i.e. ball placement). The same can be said about a defensive back; take a guy and teach him the game and he will be in the right situations at the right times. Give him the athleticism to back this up and you have a beast on your hands…much like a guy who throws 95 and lives on the black!

I am in full agreement with you here; no stone must be left unturned. As performance coaches, we can’t get obsessed with developing one motor attribute–whether it be a derivative of speed or strength–we must focus on the entire gambit of goods. Releasing the parking brake by developing an athletes natural reflexes to function in your favor is a good place to start in terms of athleticism…studying the game like you would a history book is another good starting point, mentally speaking.

Let me extend your argument, if I may. You can have an athletic freak on your hands and he can do okay or great depending on how well he is coached/taught, and there is always a bit of luck (the World Series triple play at the turn of the 20th century comes to mind). But like I said, you raise your odds by covering the full spectrum of development. This is why a well coached/taught student of the game (athlete) may do very well given the right circumstances–Steve Young ring a bell?

In other words, you can have a DB who is fast as lightning but not know a lick about offensive strategy so he ends up looking like a chicken with his head cut off come game day…meanwhile, you can have a guy who knows everything about the game and anticipate the play perfectly but simply not have the ability to get into position on time (he’s the guy who is always ‘on the ball’ JUST after the whistle). Ultimately, we need athletic students of the game that know how to make a play and have the tools to get the job done. This is where I see the clear cut difference between “strength” and/or “speed” specialists and “performance” specialists.

But if you are going to pick one (as recruiters often do), your best bet is to raise your athleticism. Starting about 10 years ago, MLB scouts told me quite candidly that they would draft athletes with the hopes that they could turn them into players (this obviously goes on in other sports, as well). But brush that knowledge aside, the take home message is to become a well rounded athlete! Don’t just try to become an athletic freak and certainly don’t just “practice” by analyzing film all day long. In order to succeed at the highest levels you need to have great physical AND mental development.

As for Adam’s obvious deficiencies; I wouldn’t say he is the only DB in history to have poor ball judgement and rock-hard hands. Everytime a DB drops a ball you’ll always hear the color man say ‘and that’s why he’s on defense.’ I certainly don’t suggest taking what the announcers say as gospel, but this is one case in which I think their argument may hold some water. Further, I don’t contend that he should just accept these deficiencies. Just like a bodybuilder may need to bring up his chest to balance out his “performance” (physique), Adam would obviously be well served if he worked on developing these motor skills to polish off his performance (or at least round off the edges). We have presented a number of possibilities for him to work with in these regards on the site so far, and will continue to do so.

Again, I see the need for coaches to devote themselves to the total development of the athlete in question. Imagine hiring a sprint coach who doesn’t know the first thing about sprint mechanics. Now, how come we have ‘strength coaches’ with the inability to hone an athletes total development (i.e. sport mechanics)? I don’t have enough fingers, toes, or even hairs on my head to count how many strength coaches I’ve talked to who are satisfied with just getting a guy stronger…even if these efforts detract from the athlete’s playing mechanics (i.e. baseball swing). No stone should be left unturned, in my humble opinion, when designing an athletes training program. We need to objectively evaluate what our athletes need and structure their routines respectively–not to mention have the ability to carry out this game plan effectively (technical and functional knowledge, strategically planned).

You have already gained my sincere respect as a coach because you obviously understand that performance coaching/training isn’t restricted to just drilling technique just like it’s not just about building tremendous “testing indicator” performance (i.e. 40, VJ, bench press). In fact, I think it’s safe to say that this is what separates you from the majority of performance coaches out there. There’s a lot of guys who can get a guy bigger, faster, stronger, etc…there’s a lot of “technical specialists” out there…but very few, it seems, are able to complete the performance process by welding raw athleticism with polished sport skill. For example, I recently took on a baseball player. One of the first things he told me was that his ex-coach added 15 mph to his bat speed. That’s great, but the guy’s swing was terrrible! The story gets more interesting when you learn that his ex-coach didn’t even own a device that measures bat speed–he was literally eye-balling the kids improvement! But, still, even if the bat speed gains were legit the athlete’s technique was so bad that he was only prepared to excel in a company softball league. It’s like a guy who can squat like a power lifter or C&J like an O’lifter but he can’t play his sport for beans–this is, sadly, more prevelant than most of us would like to admit.

I always loved it when the track guys would come out for football. Even though I played QB in HS (LB in Europe, oddly enough), I always loved to hit. They’d come galloping in with their upright “speed” stance and it was like setting a beachball on a tee! They’d get their forearms bruised purple after the first day so they’d throw on arm guards, as if that was the cure the problem (they’d be just as well playing without shoulder pads and a helmut since they neglected to use them). I snapped a guy’s femur one day, but even though this may seem like a great story to brag about it was one of the worst experiences of my life. Note to track studs wanting to play on the grid iron, learn how to run like a football player before you end up in the hospital.

Nevertheless, I see the future of sports training taking a turn in the near future. We already have sport coaches adopting the responsibilities of performance coaches (my client list is evident of this) and I don’t see this trend slowing down in the future. So in order for performance coaches (i.e. strength coaches) to avoid getting snubbed out of a job down the line I think it would be wise for them to learn how to extend their services either in the physio-therapy environment or the sport/practice environment. Coaches in track and field, baseball, basketball, gymnastic, etc, are getting closer and closer to accepting the full responsibility of technical and functional development training…so eventually the strength coach will find himself battling over fewer and fewer jobs until he becomes obselete. So if you don’t want to get the axe as a ‘middle man’ then I encourage all of the strength coaches and aspiring strength coaches reading this to pick up another trade. Learn everything you can about a sport or get in therapy school–whatever interests you. There’s a lot of directions to take…I’ve only listed a couple. The more tools in your shed the better–Be warned!

Peace,
Brad

Brad~

Again, great post. Agreed completely. Unfortunately, I am not sure that the old wood will ever move out during my coaching career. I long for the day when a coach who cannot justify why he is having his athletes do something (as opposed to other suggestions) will be looked down upon.

Oh, to rid our world of the mantra: we do it that way because we have always done it that way!

I suppose I am dreaming… plus, where would we be if coaches actually took the time to learn both their sport and fundamentally sound techniques (especially for the type of athletes they recruit), plus learned the science of developing their athletes physically and mentally?

I agree with you, but I think you may be giving the green striped tube sock / bike short wearing guys a bit too much credit… too much clinging to old ways like a faith system, because a sound approach for analyzing techniques is well beyond their ability…

Remember, for many, the turn to coaching isn’t a choice between being a neurosurgeon, a economist, or a performance / sport coach. The field is full of guys who couldn’t remember what their assignment was on ‘Speed Option Right’. But now they have the title of coach (or GA), and if they kiss the right ass and played for a big school in college, will someday be coaching your top athletes when they get to college. This is sad, but true.

One of the reasons I love this site, yours, and Charlie’s is that the minds are a lot brighter (no 20 watt bulbs here), and question the old ways. While not as progressive as your work, guys like CT, Chad, Eric, and the rest here really do push the standard Nebraska Power envelope we all grew up learning as gospel.

OK, enough of all this. If you are here, I have a question for you. It is more of a question that is asking for your analysis as a coach, than someone who believes blindly in one system (even though I agree that their really is only one system!).

In analyzing Jay’s Freak of Training CD, I notice that he uses ISO-Parametric methods also. He has athletes hold at CJC for a count of 10, the 3 explosive reps, then hold for 10 more, then 2 explosive reps, then 10 more holding, then a final rep. This is opposed to the basic protocol you outline in your book, namely doing the hold and overcoming for a single rep. The total time would put him in the upper bound of AN-2.

First, I assume your Iso-Parametric protocols are far more extensive than outlined in your book, so you may also do this. I have a couple thoughts about why Jay feels this is good. Please let me know if I am off-base.

I believe the answer lies in fiber conversion theory: namely that if we fatigue all of the FT fibers, then fatigue the slow twitch fibers during the later holds, but ‘initiate’ the explosive reps with the intent of explosiveness, we may find some fibers convert.

I assume that the recruitment during this process, since it is of zero rate is slow → fast twitch as force is maximized… then fast twitch would falter as AN-1 is surpassed, but then we ask our muscles to fire explosively…trying to convert?

Or in your opinion is Jay merely trying to extend time at CJC while implementing the benefits of Iso-Paramtrics, and working towards explosive endurance?

I hope all of this made sense.

I realize that you and Jay differ in key aspects, and respect the differences. I was just hoping for a glimpse into why one way… obviously you cannot speak for Jay, but if he doesn’t contribute, we are all left to speculate (analyze)…

BTW, if you’d rather me send this as a question on your site, just say so…

I will wait for it to be back up…

Just thought I would ask since you wandered over to T-mag…

Thanks Brad.

Coach JR

brilliant!

guys, keep it coming. we here at the Nation dont see this type of dialogue often, if ever; and some of us really enjoy it, learn from it, and endeavor for greatness based on it.

Stephen

[quote]Jumanji wrote:
Brad~
Again, great post. Agreed completely. Unfortunately, I am not sure that the old wood will ever move out during my coaching career. I long for the day when a coach who cannot justify why he is having his athletes do something (as opposed to other suggestions) will be looked down upon. [/quote]

I think that ‘the movement’ may take a little bit longer to grab hold in football (that’s what you coach, right?), but when it comes to gymnastics, basketball, and baseball…lights out! Basketball is the most progressive right now. It’s like they’re trying to catch up with gymnastics, baseball, and even track coaches who have been ahead of the curve for some time now.

Out of work! If you’re involved in football then you can take a cat nap…just don’t be surprised if therapists and/or sport coaches have ‘pinched the grape’ while you were dreaming.

Hey…what’s wrong with “coach’s shorts” and tube socks? I’ve always thought they compliment my Chuck T’s, baseball sleeves, and hair-muffs, perfectly!

[quote]I have a question for you.

In analyzing Jay’s Freak of Training CD, I notice that he uses ISO-Parametric methods also. He has athletes hold at CJC for a count of 10, the 3 explosive reps, then hold for 10 more, then 2 explosive reps, then 10 more holding, then a final rep. This is opposed to the basic protocol you outline in your book, namely doing the hold and overcoming for a single rep. The total time would put him in the upper bound of AN-2.

First, I assume your Iso-Parametric protocols are far more extensive than outlined in your book, so you may also do this. I have a couple thoughts about why Jay feels this is good. Please let me know if I am off-base.

I believe the answer lies in fiber conversion theory: namely that if we fatigue all of the FT fibers, then fatigue the slow twitch fibers during the later holds, but ‘initiate’ the explosive reps with the intent of explosiveness, we may find some fibers convert.

I assume that the recruitment during this process, since it is of zero rate is slow → fast twitch as force is maximized… then fast twitch would falter as AN-1 is surpassed, but then we ask our muscles to fire explosively…trying to convert?

Or in your opinion is Jay merely trying to extend time at CJC while implementing the benefits of Iso-Paramtrics, and working towards explosive endurance? [/quote]

Honestly, your guess as to why Jay uses (what he calls) the “explosive isometric isometric” (EDI) method is as good as mine. Even though I can think of a million possible reasons why you should and could use some form of the static-dynamic regime, I’m not very good at reading minds. Nevertheless, I sense you may be over-thinking the problem.

My bet is that he is just trying to create an acute hypertonic environment for his athletes to realize an increase in momentary muscular force capacity during the static and/or dynamic phase(s) of the movement complex above and beyond what would have been achieved if just static or dynamic contractions had been employed. (crap, that sentence was so long…I need a nap!)

Translation?

The general premise is to produce stronger contractions.

Now, what you decide to do with this “super tension” is up to you, based on your loading parameters and hold/rep protocols.

Admittadly, this is a whopper of a topic with tons of scientific implications and practical applications, and I know I’m not doing it justice here in this short post.

On the other hand, if you just want to know what Jay’s thinking then you better ask Jay! You won’t tap his brain through me…just like I won’t tap your brain through him! Make sense?

Peace,
Brad

[quote]wufwugy wrote:
brilliant!

guys, keep it coming. we here at the Nation dont see this type of dialogue often, if ever; and some of us really enjoy it, learn from it, and endeavor for greatness based on it.

Stephen[/quote]

Stephen,

I don’t get over here as often as I’d like…but I’m glad to hear that you are enjoying the discussion. Please feel free to chime in with your own two cents; I always love glimpsing through the eyes of a new perspective.

Peace,
Brad

[quote]Nuttall wrote:
Stephen,

I don’t get over here as often as I’d like…but I’m glad to hear that you are enjoying the discussion. Please feel free to chime in with your own two cents; I always love glimpsing through the eyes of a new perspective.

Peace,
Brad[/quote]

i couldn’t keep up with you guys.

yet trying is what preceeds doing…

Brad~

I appreciate the response, and understand completely. Keep up the good work.

I now just have to figure out a way to draw Jay out into the open…

Not eveyone is so willing to knock insights around…

Just another coach searching for the means to return us to what was intended, or evolved to, rather than the state of most athletes I am handed. Thanks for helping me with this quest…

Coach JR
Jumanji