Hi,
Could I train in the strength zone for my legs and train for hypertrophy for my upper body?
Example:
Upperbody 3-4 sets x 8-12 reps
Lowerbody 5x5
I’m training for more muscle mass!
This is getting dumb.
Who the hell has made these people believe that muscles grow without getting any stronger at all?
I think it was Joe Weider.
[quote]derek wrote:
I think it was Joe Weider.[/quote]
I appreciate this site and all, but I’d say more people have built muscular and lean bodies by training and only reading Weider publications (back then you were limited) than the post-internet generation who have access to “better” information.
I know, this is a very unpopular opinion but that’s my experience.
Yes, I know it’s fun to ridicule 16 set bicep routines and the thought of working “inner” and “outer” chest, but not all their routines were so high in volume nor did it make a difference if their reasons for using a wide or narrow grip for bench press were wrong.
The average trainee back then was still considerable more jacked than the current sophisticated crowd.
Perhaps is was because they kept the information relatively simple and constant (ie: repetitive) that people stuck to their routines long enough to see progress. Now we have guys barely able to bench 225 who truly believe they need to buy chains and add “speed days” to their routine.
I’m not knocking current methods, it’s just that it seems to be doing a huge disservice to the majority of folks who are persuaded to change programs so frequently and never get into any type of rhythm.
And that’s not even considering the overwhelming nutritional… information
[quote]Sewerhooker wrote:
derek wrote:
I think it was Joe Weider.
I appreciate this site and all, but I’d say more people have built muscular and lean bodies by training and only reading Weider publications (back then you were limited) than the post-internet generation who have access to “better” information.
I know, this is a very unpopular opinion but that’s my experience.
Yes, I know it’s fun to ridicule 16 set bicep routines and the thought of working “inner” and “outer” chest, but not all their routines were so high in volume nor did it make a difference if their reasons for using a wide or narrow grip for bench press were wrong.
The average trainee back then was still considerable more jacked than the current sophisticated crowd.
Perhaps is was because they kept the information relatively simple and constant (ie: repetitive) that people stuck to their routines long enough to see progress. Now we have guys barely able to bench 225 who truly believe they need to buy chains and add “speed days” to their routine.
I’m not knocking current methods, it’s just that it seems to be doing a huge disservice to the majority of folks who are persuaded to change programs so frequently and never get into any type of rhythm.
And that’s not even considering the overwhelming nutritional… information[/quote]
Good post.
Agreed.
You know I was kidding about the Joe Weider comment, don’t you?
Hell, if it wasn’t for FLEX, I’d never have known about Dorian and Levrone, Aaron Baker (Batman) and Dave Fisher, my favorites.
Ironman was good too.
[quote]derek wrote:
You know I was kidding about the Joe Weider comment, don’t you?
[/quote]
Yes, I did.
I was jssst sayin…
If using 5x5 on lowerbody will not affect overall bodymass gains? The thing is my legs have a good size now but need more mass on my upperbody!!
Some mass gains will appear but mainly I’ll recruit CNS in my lower body…so the lowerbody would need longer recovery?
3-split:
Upper
Rest
Upper
Rest
Lower
Rest
Repeat
Could you define “CNS” and give us a rough description of its job and how it works off the top of your head?
If you can’t, why are you even asking a question like this?
I know it’s going to be another bullshit thread if i see the word “hypertrophy” anywhere in the title, now what does that say about the state of things…
I don’t have the energy to do this again. Check out “Progression is it all about load?” in this very section for some discussion on this topic. Long story short- get freaky strong on exercises for reps and with consistently big food intake you will have freak muscularity REGARDLESS OF REPS DONE.
It has got to the point where people who dont have a clue are now spouting “5x5, Hypertrophy, CNS Recovery, Proportion” etc… without any understanding to what they’re talking about.
The sad truth is, in this Bodybuilding forum many of us have achieved a certain level over the last 8+ years. This was from good old fashioned hard work, metal and sweat. (and flex/ironman!)
Now we came to a site that has the information to allow us to continue gaining if we apply some of the RELEVANT info to our own intermediate/Advanced training.
However guys who have been training for 4 years and less are also trying to adopt the same strategy, as though they dont have to build a base before progressing.
Well then you are doomed to stay skinny-fat i am afraid.
More knowledge doesnt make you bigger, not until you have paid your dues.
Just because someone can quote a kinesiology handbook or they can define hypertrophy (many cannot too) does NOT mean you are advanced, nor that you have the first idea about what you are doing, and i am willing to bet that for the majority here (those who are the exception, i think you know who you are)are not going to continue this for life - because you have already gone about it the wrong way.
Talking the talk wont make you ‘fit in’, actually having made progress, and knowing what the fuck you are saying might get you a little respect however.
JJ
I think folks dont appreciate the time it takes, and the fact that in the first couple of years its more about getting on with it week in and week out rather than banking on the latest news, a cool article etc.
In fact mrpj’s plan is fine, it wont make a difference in the way he may be thinking, but if he trains hard and progressively anyway and eats well he’ll get both bigger and stronger all over despite this.
Nice! Yeah, I still follows those basic thermodynamics more energy in than energy out. Eat clean and much and train hard.
But now I going back for some split-training:
Day 1: Chest/Back
Day 2: OFF
Day 3: Biceps/Triceps
Day 4: Quad/Hamstrings
Day 5:
Day 6: Shoulders
Day 7:
So on day 4 I’ll be using 5x5 instead
[quote]gswork wrote:
I think folks dont appreciate the time it takes, and the fact that in the first couple of years its more about getting on with it week in and week out rather than banking on the latest news, a cool article etc.
In fact mrpj’s plan is fine, it wont make a difference in the way he may be thinking, but if he trains hard and progressively anyway and eats well he’ll get both bigger and stronger all over despite this.[/quote]
First couple of years? I think thats the problem… i have been training a damn site longer than that and i still go in day in day out… work hard as fuck and lift heavy, basic foods, clean living and 100% focused around building the best body i can for the purpose of showing.
And it STILL works! lol! I really didnt know shit about my body and what worked for it in 2 years… i am sticking with a GOOD 4 as a minimum.
It takes AGES to learn how your body reacts to exercises or foods or rep ranges or splits or overtraining or undertraining - all the stuff we read about daily is USELESS unless you have a clue how your body reacts to this work. And that is done from years of consistency IMHO.
It takes AGES to get the smallest of results. 2 years in and worrying about details like periodisation is not necessary for the majority. And i am as guilty of spreading the misconceptions as anyone - as i too forget that i simply shouldnt talk about it in front of so many impressionable minds.
As my good friend bushidobadboy once said -Bodybuilding is both an art and a science.-
I think that the science is VERY important, but for the purposes of training - its use is limited in Bodybuilding for beginners.
JJ