Strength During Contest Prep

Training
21

[quote]craze9 wrote:
Do you guys decrease overall training volume when cutting? I.e. if you’re lifting primarily heavy (say in the 6-8 rep range) do you focus on the big lifts and go home, with less pump/isolation work? Or do you use about the same amount of total volume and exercises as when lifting to build muscle?
[/quote]

I generally do all of the lifts… most of the time ill do fewer sets.

I always deadlift/rack pull last in my back day, so I guess you could say that I do all the ‘pump/isolation’ work first

22

[quote]TheCB wrote:
underhand BB rows in the smith are a great exercise all about form/MMC/volume

dont see the point in general of doing rows with a huge weight that involves humping the bar [/quote]

Yes i love these in the smith and really allows you to squeeze dem lats

23

[quote]craze9 wrote:
Do you guys decrease overall training volume when cutting? I.e. if you’re lifting primarily heavy (say in the 6-8 rep range) do you focus on the big lifts and go home, with less pump/isolation work? Or do you use about the same amount of total volume and exercises as when lifting to build muscle?
[/quote]

I’m interested in this too. I feel like keeping total volume the same would be optimal but that’s just my opinion

24

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]craze9 wrote:
Do you guys decrease overall training volume when cutting? I.e. if you’re lifting primarily heavy (say in the 6-8 rep range) do you focus on the big lifts and go home, with less pump/isolation work? Or do you use about the same amount of total volume and exercises as when lifting to build muscle?
[/quote]

I generally do all of the lifts… most of the time ill do fewer sets.

I always deadlift/rack pull last in my back day, so I guess you could say that I do all the ‘pump/isolation’ work first[/quote]

Thanks. I’m not really a bodybuilder but planning to get pretty lean in the Spring. Just wondering how productive it is to do tricep extensions/lateral raises after benching and OHP, when just trying to maintain strength / muscle and not build it. Or assuming I do them, whether to use 5x20 vs 3x10.

25

This was how my contest prep went last year. Granted I didn’t take enough time to prepare cause I had a powerlifting meet too close to it so my coach had to resort to drastic measures.

1st stage: strength remained constant and even went up a little
2nd stage: no more strength increases
3rd stage: slowly goin’ doooown
4th stage: Aww sh** lost a whole year’s worth of strength gains! (it came back quickly after I started eating again though)

Please don’t eat 1550kcals/day and do 60-90 min of cardio/day like me…(it was under my contest prep coach’s instructions so I’m never hiring him again haha).

26

[quote]shadowbobo8028 wrote:
This was how my contest prep went last year. Granted I didn’t take enough time to prepare cause I had a powerlifting meet too close to it so my coach had to resort to drastic measures.

1st stage: strength remained constant and even went up a little
2nd stage: no more strength increases
3rd stage: slowly goin’ doooown
4th stage: Aww sh** lost a whole year’s worth of strength gains! (it came back quickly after I started eating again though)

Please don’t eat 1550kcals/day and do 60-90 min of cardio/day like me…(it was under my contest prep coach’s instructions so I’m never hiring him again haha).[/quote]

Hate to be rude here, but you shouldn’t blame the coach, you need to put yourself in a position to come to the show in shape without bikini chick like calories, and even then, some smaller guys will have to go there to get show ready. I was probably on calories similar to that leading up to my last show.

27

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:

[quote]shadowbobo8028 wrote:
This was how my contest prep went last year. Granted I didn’t take enough time to prepare cause I had a powerlifting meet too close to it so my coach had to resort to drastic measures.

1st stage: strength remained constant and even went up a little
2nd stage: no more strength increases
3rd stage: slowly goin’ doooown
4th stage: Aww sh** lost a whole year’s worth of strength gains! (it came back quickly after I started eating again though)

Please don’t eat 1550kcals/day and do 60-90 min of cardio/day like me…(it was under my contest prep coach’s instructions so I’m never hiring him again haha).[/quote]

Hate to be rude here, but you shouldn’t blame the coach, you need to put yourself in a position to come to the show in shape without bikini chick like calories, and even then, some smaller guys will have to go there to get show ready. I was probably on calories similar to that leading up to my last show.
[/quote]

x2

I was in the 1700 territory for my show.

28

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:

[quote]shadowbobo8028 wrote:
This was how my contest prep went last year. Granted I didn’t take enough time to prepare cause I had a powerlifting meet too close to it so my coach had to resort to drastic measures.

1st stage: strength remained constant and even went up a little
2nd stage: no more strength increases
3rd stage: slowly goin’ doooown
4th stage: Aww sh** lost a whole year’s worth of strength gains! (it came back quickly after I started eating again though)

Please don’t eat 1550kcals/day and do 60-90 min of cardio/day like me…(it was under my contest prep coach’s instructions so I’m never hiring him again haha).[/quote]

Hate to be rude here, but you shouldn’t blame the coach, you need to put yourself in a position to come to the show in shape without bikini chick like calories, and even then, some smaller guys will have to go there to get show ready. I was probably on calories similar to that leading up to my last show.
[/quote]

x2

I was in the 1700 territory for my show. [/quote]

To play devil’s advocate, being in 1700 territory is very different from 1550 when you’re talking about those low numbers.

And one ethical question is whether a coach should feel some obligation to either refuse a client or to get him or her to reschedule their plans based on their actual needs (to wit, if it’s "look, to get you to Point B, we’d need to have you below the level where your basic physiological needs are met. We don’t want to do that, so let’s extend, or maybe it’s not the right time for you).

Granted, having such talks with potential clients is a big ask in a competitive market.

29

[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:
And one ethical question is whether a coach should feel some obligation to either refuse a client or to get him or her to reschedule their plans based on their actual needs (to wit, if it’s "look, to get you to Point B, we’d need to have you below the level where your basic physiological needs are met. We don’t want to do that, so let’s extend, or maybe it’s not the right time for you).

Granted, having such talks with potential clients is a big ask in a competitive market.[/quote]

That’s a tough question. You should consider that many prep coaches make their living solely from their clients, and it’s a roll of the dice in terms of losing or keeping each one.

I’ve had to have the “maybe we should do a later show” talk with a few people over the years, and it’s never easy. Of course I also have a “real” 9-5 job, so helping folks is all a sideline and my rent gets paid if I have 8 or 18 clients at any given time. I think this allows me to look out for people’s well being before just caring about how they’re ultimately going to look onstage.

Actually, I have one particularly tough client now who has worked with other coaches, made no progress at all and always dropped out of shows. She’s been with me a few months now and even though she’s lost a decent amount of weight (fat), it’s a hell of a fight each week trying to outsmart her system. Well, excited as she is, she wanted to pick a contest date last week, and I had to tell her that we’re still a while away from that point. Honestly, it does hurt me to have to do this, but I can’t in good conscience kill my clients the way some people have no problem doing. Full time job? kids? Grad clases at night? No one should have to do hours and hours of cardio a day every day for months just to get onstage holding back tears as you’re feeling like absolute crap. At the end of the day, if something isn’t enriching your life, I don’t think it’s worth doing.

Perspective is a wonderful thing.

S

30

[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:

[quote]shadowbobo8028 wrote:
This was how my contest prep went last year. Granted I didn’t take enough time to prepare cause I had a powerlifting meet too close to it so my coach had to resort to drastic measures.

1st stage: strength remained constant and even went up a little
2nd stage: no more strength increases
3rd stage: slowly goin’ doooown
4th stage: Aww sh** lost a whole year’s worth of strength gains! (it came back quickly after I started eating again though)

Please don’t eat 1550kcals/day and do 60-90 min of cardio/day like me…(it was under my contest prep coach’s instructions so I’m never hiring him again haha).[/quote]

Hate to be rude here, but you shouldn’t blame the coach, you need to put yourself in a position to come to the show in shape without bikini chick like calories, and even then, some smaller guys will have to go there to get show ready. I was probably on calories similar to that leading up to my last show.
[/quote]

x2

I was in the 1700 territory for my show. [/quote]

To play devil’s advocate, being in 1700 territory is very different from 1550 when you’re talking about those low numbers.

And one ethical question is whether a coach should feel some obligation to either refuse a client or to get him or her to reschedule their plans based on their actual needs (to wit, if it’s "look, to get you to Point B, we’d need to have you below the level where your basic physiological needs are met. We don’t want to do that, so let’s extend, or maybe it’s not the right time for you).

Granted, having such talks with potential clients is a big ask in a competitive market.[/quote]

I was assuming I had a decent amount of weight and/or height on Shadowbob, so I’m not so sure it’s that different. I get your point though.

And to address your latter point, it most certainly wasn’t a case of short timing or anything for me. I started technically prepping about 10 months before my show and was at around 8% bodyfat with 16 weeks to spare. In fact in my last 10 weeks my bodyweight only dropped 2lbs (and I’m walking stage weight v. morning weight) so I actually re-comped a bit.

The calories in late stages of prep I think are often much lower than people realize, especially for a natty in their first prep even if they do everything “right.” You don’t hear about it often either, because competitors who have to dip into poverty caloric ranges feel like anomalies and chalk it up to something off with their prep.

31

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:

[quote]shadowbobo8028 wrote:
This was how my contest prep went last year. Granted I didn’t take enough time to prepare cause I had a powerlifting meet too close to it so my coach had to resort to drastic measures.

1st stage: strength remained constant and even went up a little
2nd stage: no more strength increases
3rd stage: slowly goin’ doooown
4th stage: Aww sh** lost a whole year’s worth of strength gains! (it came back quickly after I started eating again though)

Please don’t eat 1550kcals/day and do 60-90 min of cardio/day like me…(it was under my contest prep coach’s instructions so I’m never hiring him again haha).[/quote]

Hate to be rude here, but you shouldn’t blame the coach, you need to put yourself in a position to come to the show in shape without bikini chick like calories, and even then, some smaller guys will have to go there to get show ready. I was probably on calories similar to that leading up to my last show.
[/quote]

x2

I was in the 1700 territory for my show. [/quote]

To play devil’s advocate, being in 1700 territory is very different from 1550 when you’re talking about those low numbers.

And one ethical question is whether a coach should feel some obligation to either refuse a client or to get him or her to reschedule their plans based on their actual needs (to wit, if it’s "look, to get you to Point B, we’d need to have you below the level where your basic physiological needs are met. We don’t want to do that, so let’s extend, or maybe it’s not the right time for you).

Granted, having such talks with potential clients is a big ask in a competitive market.[/quote]

I was assuming I had a decent amount of weight and/or height on Shadowbob, so I’m not so sure it’s that different. I get your point though.

And to address your latter point, it most certainly wasn’t a case of short timing or anything for me. I started technically prepping about 10 months before my show and was at around 8% bodyfat with 16 weeks to spare. In fact in my last 10 weeks my bodyweight only dropped 2lbs (and I’m walking stage weight v. morning weight) so I actually re-comped a bit.

The calories in late stages of prep I think are often much lower than people realize, especially for a natty in their first prep even if they do everything “right.” You don’t hear about it often either, because competitors who have to dip into poverty caloric ranges feel like anomalies and chalk it up to something off with their prep. [/quote]
yeah I think with first time competitors, they’ve never had to dial in there legs before and a lot of them are average genetics white guys who bulked for at least 4 years straight . After a few preps more and more cuts seem to stay and their is less of a need to go crazy low, considering they had a reasonable off season

32

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:

[quote]shadowbobo8028 wrote:
This was how my contest prep went last year. Granted I didn’t take enough time to prepare cause I had a powerlifting meet too close to it so my coach had to resort to drastic measures.

1st stage: strength remained constant and even went up a little
2nd stage: no more strength increases
3rd stage: slowly goin’ doooown
4th stage: Aww sh** lost a whole year’s worth of strength gains! (it came back quickly after I started eating again though)

Please don’t eat 1550kcals/day and do 60-90 min of cardio/day like me…(it was under my contest prep coach’s instructions so I’m never hiring him again haha).[/quote]

Hate to be rude here, but you shouldn’t blame the coach, you need to put yourself in a position to come to the show in shape without bikini chick like calories, and even then, some smaller guys will have to go there to get show ready. I was probably on calories similar to that leading up to my last show.
[/quote]

x2

I was in the 1700 territory for my show. [/quote]

To play devil’s advocate, being in 1700 territory is very different from 1550 when you’re talking about those low numbers.

And one ethical question is whether a coach should feel some obligation to either refuse a client or to get him or her to reschedule their plans based on their actual needs (to wit, if it’s "look, to get you to Point B, we’d need to have you below the level where your basic physiological needs are met. We don’t want to do that, so let’s extend, or maybe it’s not the right time for you).

Granted, having such talks with potential clients is a big ask in a competitive market.[/quote]

I was assuming I had a decent amount of weight and/or height on Shadowbob, so I’m not so sure it’s that different. I get your point though.

And to address your latter point, it most certainly wasn’t a case of short timing or anything for me. I started technically prepping about 10 months before my show and was at around 8% bodyfat with 16 weeks to spare. In fact in my last 10 weeks my bodyweight only dropped 2lbs (and I’m walking stage weight v. morning weight) so I actually re-comped a bit.

The calories in late stages of prep I think are often much lower than people realize, especially for a natty in their first prep even if they do everything “right.” You don’t hear about it often either, because competitors who have to dip into poverty caloric ranges feel like anomalies and chalk it up to something off with their prep. [/quote]
yeah I think with first time competitors, they’ve never had to dial in there legs before and a lot of them are average genetics white guys who bulked for at least 4 years straight . After a few preps more and more cuts seem to stay and their is less of a need to go crazy low, considering they had a reasonable off season[/quote]

so if im black im good then right??

33

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:
and a lot of them are average genetics white guys who bulked for at least 4 years straight . [/quote]

so if im black im good then right??
[/quote]

Lol, I’ve seen plenty of black guys who bulked far longer than 4 years, and it didn’t do them any favors either.

S

34

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:

[quote]shadowbobo8028 wrote:
This was how my contest prep went last year. Granted I didn’t take enough time to prepare cause I had a powerlifting meet too close to it so my coach had to resort to drastic measures.

1st stage: strength remained constant and even went up a little
2nd stage: no more strength increases
3rd stage: slowly goin’ doooown
4th stage: Aww sh** lost a whole year’s worth of strength gains! (it came back quickly after I started eating again though)

Please don’t eat 1550kcals/day and do 60-90 min of cardio/day like me…(it was under my contest prep coach’s instructions so I’m never hiring him again haha).[/quote]

Hate to be rude here, but you shouldn’t blame the coach, you need to put yourself in a position to come to the show in shape without bikini chick like calories, and even then, some smaller guys will have to go there to get show ready. I was probably on calories similar to that leading up to my last show.
[/quote]

x2

I was in the 1700 territory for my show. [/quote]

To play devil’s advocate, being in 1700 territory is very different from 1550 when you’re talking about those low numbers.

And one ethical question is whether a coach should feel some obligation to either refuse a client or to get him or her to reschedule their plans based on their actual needs (to wit, if it’s "look, to get you to Point B, we’d need to have you below the level where your basic physiological needs are met. We don’t want to do that, so let’s extend, or maybe it’s not the right time for you).

Granted, having such talks with potential clients is a big ask in a competitive market.[/quote]

I was assuming I had a decent amount of weight and/or height on Shadowbob, so I’m not so sure it’s that different. I get your point though.

And to address your latter point, it most certainly wasn’t a case of short timing or anything for me. I started technically prepping about 10 months before my show and was at around 8% bodyfat with 16 weeks to spare. In fact in my last 10 weeks my bodyweight only dropped 2lbs (and I’m walking stage weight v. morning weight) so I actually re-comped a bit.

The calories in late stages of prep I think are often much lower than people realize, especially for a natty in their first prep even if they do everything “right.” You don’t hear about it often either, because competitors who have to dip into poverty caloric ranges feel like anomalies and chalk it up to something off with their prep. [/quote]
yeah I think with first time competitors, they’ve never had to dial in there legs before and a lot of them are average genetics white guys who bulked for at least 4 years straight . After a few preps more and more cuts seem to stay and their is less of a need to go crazy low, considering they had a reasonable off season[/quote]

so if im black im good then right??
[/quote]
only if you have genetics like Uylsses Jr

http://awesome-body.info/ulisses-jr-quotes/

35

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:

[quote]shadowbobo8028 wrote:
This was how my contest prep went last year. Granted I didn’t take enough time to prepare cause I had a powerlifting meet too close to it so my coach had to resort to drastic measures.

1st stage: strength remained constant and even went up a little
2nd stage: no more strength increases
3rd stage: slowly goin’ doooown
4th stage: Aww sh** lost a whole year’s worth of strength gains! (it came back quickly after I started eating again though)

Please don’t eat 1550kcals/day and do 60-90 min of cardio/day like me…(it was under my contest prep coach’s instructions so I’m never hiring him again haha).[/quote]

Hate to be rude here, but you shouldn’t blame the coach, you need to put yourself in a position to come to the show in shape without bikini chick like calories, and even then, some smaller guys will have to go there to get show ready. I was probably on calories similar to that leading up to my last show.
[/quote]

x2

I was in the 1700 territory for my show. [/quote]

To play devil’s advocate, being in 1700 territory is very different from 1550 when you’re talking about those low numbers.

And one ethical question is whether a coach should feel some obligation to either refuse a client or to get him or her to reschedule their plans based on their actual needs (to wit, if it’s "look, to get you to Point B, we’d need to have you below the level where your basic physiological needs are met. We don’t want to do that, so let’s extend, or maybe it’s not the right time for you).

Granted, having such talks with potential clients is a big ask in a competitive market.[/quote]

I was assuming I had a decent amount of weight and/or height on Shadowbob, so I’m not so sure it’s that different. I get your point though.

And to address your latter point, it most certainly wasn’t a case of short timing or anything for me. I started technically prepping about 10 months before my show and was at around 8% bodyfat with 16 weeks to spare. In fact in my last 10 weeks my bodyweight only dropped 2lbs (and I’m walking stage weight v. morning weight) so I actually re-comped a bit.

The calories in late stages of prep I think are often much lower than people realize, especially for a natty in their first prep even if they do everything “right.” You don’t hear about it often either, because competitors who have to dip into poverty caloric ranges feel like anomalies and chalk it up to something off with their prep. [/quote]
yeah I think with first time competitors, they’ve never had to dial in there legs before and a lot of them are average genetics white guys who bulked for at least 4 years straight . After a few preps more and more cuts seem to stay and their is less of a need to go crazy low, considering they had a reasonable off season[/quote]

so if im black im good then right??
[/quote]
only if you have genetics like Uylsses Jr

http://awesome-body.info/ulisses-jr-quotes/ [/quote]

son of a bitch, im getting a skin color change, then ill get big

36

Personally, my strength was fine when I got lean, but my strength-endurance suffered and I cut volume back so I could keep intensity up.