Stevie Wonder Boycotts Florida

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
81

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:

See, the problem is Martin was visiting his pops and fiance. Martin was where he was supposed to be, he had every right to be there and not be trifled with, as he was doing nothing wrong. Zimmerman racially profiled Martin, as before Martin incident he had called police on other occasions it had been black males looking into vacant houses… He saw Martin, assumed it was a black male up to no good which in itself was enough to call the cops (bullshit) and harassed him (also bullshit).

Sorry, but if some neighborhood watch douche confronted you on your own property/community, called the cops on you because you are white, (because a white serial killer had just killed someone in the community weeks earlier) would it even make sense for that person to call the cops based on you being white? You weren’t caught snooping around or acting bizarre, just a white boy walking home with some fava beans and Chianti…

Well, what do you think happened? Zimmerman saw an unfamiliar black guy outside, called the cops based on him being black… Then, took it upon himself to go out and be Mr. Big time neighborhood watch and confront Martin, at which point he may have rightly gotten his ass kicked for messing with someone for no reason. That’s a universal reason to get your ass kicked/ messing with someone for no reason, you should expect it…

He’s such a weakling he let a 17 year old kid handle him. Instead of taking his licks, he got a busted nose and probably would have ended up with a few more scrapes and bruises, except he had a pistol.

You all know damned well if Martin were your son, you would see it differently. [/quote]

You know what I would do if a “creepy ass cracka” was stalking me?

A few yards from my home?

I would go home and call the police.

[/quote]

I do not belive you , Sorry:)
[/quote]

Well, maybe I would just go home. [/quote]

What if he cornered you?[/quote]

Deck him and then go home.

82

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
It does not matter what is assumed , what matters is Zimmerman pursued Martin , Caught him, Got his ass beat , and shot Martin. You have to trail the starting point to Zimmerman , who pursued Martin[/quote]

It does matter what you mean when you say “caught.” If you’re just saying that Zimmerman got in the same area as Martin, then was punched and beat up by Martin(which is what it seems you’re saying when you refer to Martin ambushing Zimmerman), then Martin would be seen as the aggressor. He got himself out of the situation, then initiated a second.

It does not matter if I think the whole situation could have been avoided were it not for Zimmerman following Martin.

If a man is shot and killed in a parking lot near a bar after waiting to “ambush” the shooter, the shooter sticks around to talk to police, and video from inside the bar is recovered which shows the shooter hitting on a woman who is obviously with the now-dead man, do you believe that the shooter is going to be seen as the legal initiator of the fight in the parking lot, in which he got his “ass kicked?” After all, the incident can be traced back to him hitting on the now-dead man’s girlfriend in the bar.

83

[quote]Severiano wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:

You all know damned well if Martin were your son, you would see it differently. [/quote]

My son would not have gone to the store during the rain to get candy and a bottle of iced tea. He would have been home. And if he was he would have run straight home and told me about it. Not take measures into his own hands. There is a time to fight and a time to run. If you know nothing about a person you run. You only fight when you are cornered and have no alternative.
[/quote]

You have a lot of faith in your control over your son. Let me put it this way, if you accept he is a free agent, you have to come to grips with the reality that you don’t have that sort of control. How many stories are there about, “My child isn’t capable, my child would never.” We are all human and as a result we are fallible.

I don’t know your son, I don’t wish any malice, and I’m not saying anything about his character. Only pointing out it’s very human to make mistakes or let our emotions/ hormones get the better of us. Testosterone and aggression, things we as lifters tend to have in abundance are pretty common ingredients in altercation.
[/quote]

I understand what you are saying. I have never had an altercation. Maybe because I am 6’5" and 300 lbs which people visually know not to mess with me. I have never had to punch anyone. I do get angry, but I control my anger and think logically.

Trayvon was not cornered. He had every chance to get away, but he chose not to. Why? I kind of wished Trayvon’s history would have been allowed into the trial. Then we would have seen who he was.

84

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
It does not matter what is assumed , what matters is Zimmerman pursued Martin , Caught him, Got his ass beat , and shot Martin. You have to trail the starting point to Zimmerman , who pursued Martin[/quote]

It does matter what you mean when you say “caught.” If you’re just saying that Zimmerman got in the same area as Martin, then was punched and beat up by Martin(which is what it seems you’re saying when you refer to Martin ambushing Zimmerman), then Martin would be seen as the aggressor. He got himself out of the situation, then initiated a second.

It does not matter if I think the whole situation could have been avoided were it not for Zimmerman following Martin.

If a man is shot and killed in a parking lot near a bar after waiting to “ambush” the shooter, the shooter sticks around to talk to police, and video from inside the bar is recovered which shows the shooter hitting on a woman who is obviously with the now-dead man, do you believe that the shooter is going to be seen as the legal initiator of the fight in the parking lot, in which he got his “ass kicked?” After all, the incident can be traced back to him hitting on the now-dead man’s girlfriend in the bar.[/quote]

an ambush would have not worked if Zimmerman was not pursuing Martin. I do not understand the rest of your post

85

[quote]Severiano wrote:
See, the problem is Martin was visiting his pops and fiance. Martin was where he was supposed to be, he had every right to be there and not be trifled with, as he was doing nothing wrong. Zimmerman racially profiled Martin, as before Martin incident he had called police on other occasions it had been black males looking into vacant houses… He saw Martin, assumed it was a black male up to no good which in itself was enough to call the cops (bullshit) and harassed him (also bullshit).

Sorry, but if some neighborhood watch douche confronted you on your own property/community, called the cops on you because you are white, (because a white serial killer had just killed someone in the community weeks earlier) would it even make sense for that person to call the cops based on you being white? You weren’t caught snooping around or acting bizarre, just a white boy walking home with some fava beans and Chianti…

Well, what do you think happened? Zimmerman saw an unfamiliar black guy outside, called the cops based on him being black… Then, took it upon himself to go out and be Mr. Big time neighborhood watch and confront Martin, at which point he may have rightly gotten his ass kicked for messing with someone for no reason. That’s a universal reason to get your ass kicked/ messing with someone for no reason, you should expect it…

He’s such a weakling he let a 17 year old kid handle him. Instead of taking his licks, he got a busted nose and probably would have ended up with a few more scrapes and bruises, except he had a pistol.

You all know damned well if Martin were your son, you would see it differently. [/quote]

Both Martin and Zimmerman had a right to be where they were and do what they did, up until the point Martin hit Zimmerman.

People constantly call the police for far less important things.

Do you believe that Zimmerman initiated the physical confrontation? Did he either throw the first punch or put his hands on Martin to keep him from leaving?

When you were in high school, were there 17 year old kids who could whip your ass? If so, then there likely still are. Wilfred Benitez was 17 years old when he won the Jr. Welterweight world title.

If Martin was my son, I may see it differently due to emotions(I hope I would not). It’s a good thing I would not be allowed to serve on the jury.

86

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
an ambush would have not worked if Zimmerman was not pursuing Martin. I do not understand the rest of your post
[/quote]

You may not understand what an ambush is, then.

87

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
an ambush would have not worked if Zimmerman was not pursuing Martin. I do not understand the rest of your post
[/quote]

You may not understand what an ambush is, then.[/quote]

Pittbull I am thinking this.

88

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:
See, the problem is Martin was visiting his pops and fiance. Martin was where he was supposed to be, he had every right to be there and not be trifled with, as he was doing nothing wrong. Zimmerman racially profiled Martin, as before Martin incident he had called police on other occasions it had been black males looking into vacant houses… He saw Martin, assumed it was a black male up to no good which in itself was enough to call the cops (bullshit) and harassed him (also bullshit).

Sorry, but if some neighborhood watch douche confronted you on your own property/community, called the cops on you because you are white, (because a white serial killer had just killed someone in the community weeks earlier) would it even make sense for that person to call the cops based on you being white? You weren’t caught snooping around or acting bizarre, just a white boy walking home with some fava beans and Chianti…

Well, what do you think happened? Zimmerman saw an unfamiliar black guy outside, called the cops based on him being black… Then, took it upon himself to go out and be Mr. Big time neighborhood watch and confront Martin, at which point he may have rightly gotten his ass kicked for messing with someone for no reason. That’s a universal reason to get your ass kicked/ messing with someone for no reason, you should expect it…

He’s such a weakling he let a 17 year old kid handle him. Instead of taking his licks, he got a busted nose and probably would have ended up with a few more scrapes and bruises, except he had a pistol.

You all know damned well if Martin were your son, you would see it differently. [/quote]

Both Martin and Zimmerman had a right to be where they were and do what they did, up until the point Martin hit Zimmerman.

People constantly call the police for far less important things.

Do you believe that Zimmerman initiated the physical confrontation? Did he either throw the first punch or put his hands on Martin to keep him from leaving?

When you were in high school, were there 17 year old kids who could whip your ass? If so, then there likely still are. Wilfred Benitez was 17 years old when he won the Jr. Welterweight world title.

If Martin was my son, I may see it differently due to emotions(I hope I would not). It’s a good thing I would not be allowed to serve on the jury.[/quote]

One way of initiating physical confrontation is by violating someone’s space, or harassing them for no reason, or insulting someone for no reason are all great ways of initiating physical confrontation. Go try it out! Nah, just kidding… Don’t try it! Just take my word for it.

As for a 17 year old kids, Wilfredo Benitez was an exception, not wise to use the exception as the standard right? And, no I don’t know many 17 year olds that could beat me when I was in my mid 20’s, I’m sure there are a couple, and I’d expect to be made fun of if I were beaten by a kid when I was in my mid 20’s.

89

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:

You all know damned well if Martin were your son, you would see it differently. [/quote]

My son would not have gone to the store during the rain to get candy and a bottle of iced tea. He would have been home. And if he was he would have run straight home and told me about it. Not take measures into his own hands. There is a time to fight and a time to run. If you know nothing about a person you run. You only fight when you are cornered and have no alternative.
[/quote]

I think GZ confronted the kid, the kid took an attitude and GZ went for his gun, so the kid had to do something. What else would you think? He sure as shit wasn’t a cop.

Rob

90

[quote]beachguy498 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:

You all know damned well if Martin were your son, you would see it differently. [/quote]

My son would not have gone to the store during the rain to get candy and a bottle of iced tea. He would have been home. And if he was he would have run straight home and told me about it. Not take measures into his own hands. There is a time to fight and a time to run. If you know nothing about a person you run. You only fight when you are cornered and have no alternative.
[/quote]

I think GZ confronted the kid, the kid took an attitude and GZ went for his gun, so the kid had to do something. What else would you think? He sure as shit wasn’t a cop.

Rob[/quote]

I am doubting this very much.

91

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]beachguy498 wrote:
I think GZ confronted the kid, the kid took an attitude and GZ went for his gun, so the kid had to do something. What else would you think? He sure as shit wasn’t a cop.

Rob[/quote]

I am doubting this very much.
[/quote]

Me too. For me to believe that, I would have to believe that Zimmerman was unable to successfully pull his gun before Martin hit him, but was able to do so after being knocked down and while being beaten up. That seems at least unlikely enough to create reasonable doubt.

92

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Nobody has ever explained how it’s GZ confronting Martin, when Martin has been running home for over 2 minutes. From around the T-intersection, he runs south between the buildings.

“Shit he’s running.” Start Timer

Around the T-intersection (7) Martin runs south, between the building, out of sight. Martin’s house is in that direction right there on the east side of the walk way. The blue circle.

(5) Is where Zimmerman is parked. Right outside the “T” walkway. He immediately gets out after “shit he’s running.” If you listen, you can hear the door chime. And, when the door slams shut.

We can hear the wind as Zimmerman makes his way to the T-intersection (7) to see which way Martin might run in the distance.

He’s asked directions/which entrance by the dispatcher as to which way Martin is running. He give last known direction and entrance.

Only after Zimmerman has already made his way into the T-intersection (7) does the dispatcher say “we don’t need you to do that.” Not an order. “Ok.” Stays there and continues speaking to dispatcher. He has no idea where Martin is any longer and assumes he’s long gone running. They make arrangements to meet the police.

Call ends.

Stop timer

A bit over 2 minutes from my count.

The only way Martin is there to even confront is because Martin was hiding nearby all along.

He came back towards the intersection, towards Zimmerman.

93

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Nobody has ever explained how it’s GZ confronting Martin, when Martin has been running home for over 2 minutes. From around the T-intersection, he runs south between the buildings.

“Shit he’s running.” Start Timer

Around the T-intersection (7) Martin runs south, between the building, out of sight. Martin’s house is in that direction right there on the east side of the walk way. The blue circle.

(5) Is where Zimmerman is parked. Right outside the “T” walkway. He immediately gets out after “shit he’s running.” If you listen, you can hear the door chime. And, when the door slams shut.

We can hear the wind as Zimmerman makes his way to the T-intersection (7) to see which way Martin might run in the distance.

He’s asked directions/which entrance by the dispatcher as to which way Martin is running. He give last known direction and entrance.

Only after Zimmerman has already made his way into the T-intersection (7) does the dispatcher say “we don’t need you to do that.” Not an order. “Ok.” Stays there and continues speaking to dispatcher. He has no idea where Martin is any longer and assumes he’s long gone running. They making arrangements to meet the police.

Call ends.

Stop timer

A bit over 2 minutes from my count.

The only way Martin is there to even confront is because Martin was hiding nearby all along.

He came back towards the intersection, towards Zimmerman.

[/quote]

But Zimmerman is HALF WHITE! That bit of information seems to have been left out of your summary of the incident.

94

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Nobody has ever explained how it’s GZ confronting Martin, when Martin has been running home for over 2 minutes. From around the T-intersection, he runs south between the buildings.

“Shit he’s running.” Start Timer

Around the T-intersection (7) Martin runs south, between the building, out of sight. Martin’s house is in that direction right there on the east side of the walk way. The blue circle.

(5) Is where Zimmerman is parked. Right outside the “T” walkway. He immediately gets out after “shit he’s running.” If you listen, you can hear the door chime. And, when the door slams shut.

We can hear the wind as Zimmerman makes his way to the T-intersection (7) to see which way Martin might run in the distance.

He’s asked directions/which entrance by the dispatcher as to which way Martin is running. He give last known direction and entrance.

Only after Zimmerman has already made his way into the T-intersection (7) does the dispatcher say “we don’t need you to do that.” Not an order. “Ok.” Stays there and continues speaking to dispatcher. He has no idea where Martin is any longer and assumes he’s long gone running. They making arrangements to meet the police.

Call ends.

Stop timer

A bit over 2 minutes from my count.

The only way Martin is there to even confront is because Martin was hiding nearby all along.

He came back towards the intersection, towards Zimmerman.

[/quote]

But Zimmerman is HALF WHITE! That bit of information seems to have been left out of your summary of the incident.[/quote]

No, his daddy is white so that makes him a White Racists, or a creepy a@@ Cracka.

95

[quote]NickViar wrote:

But Zimmerman is HALF WHITE! That bit of information seems to have been left out of your summary of the incident.[/quote]

Heh, true.

Seriously though. I remember when this trial started the narrative was that Zimmerman literally chased down Martin.

Of course the “fight” also evolved.

  1. Catches up to and shoots, no real fight. “See our grainy police station video? We don’t see evidence of injuries on the back of Zimmerman’s head.” Then people on the internet pointed out that something was going on with the back of his head, even in the unenhanced images.

  2. Ok, maybe a bit of fight. But I don’t believe it was so involved as to go to the ground. Then a number of witnesses during the trial say it did.

  3. Ok. But it could’ve been Zimmmerman on top of Martin.

Then 2 witnesses testify who was on top before the shot was fired
a) Jeanne Manalo; “bigger one.” See photo. Guess which is Martin.
B John Good: “Dark” shirt was on top of “red” shirt.

96

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Heh, true.

Seriously though. I remember when this trial started the narrative was that Zimmerman literally chased down Martin.

Of course the “fight” also evolved.

  1. Catches up to and shoots, no real fight. “See our grainy police station video? We don’t see evidence of injuries on the back of Zimmerman’s head.” Then people on the internet pointed out that something was going on with the back of his head, even in the unenhanced images.

  2. Ok, maybe a bit of fight. But I don’t believe it was so involved as to go to the ground. Then a number of witnesses during the trial say it did.

  3. Ok. But it could’ve been Zimmmerman on top of Martin.

Then 2 witnesses testify who was on top before the shot was fired
a) Jeanne Manalo; “bigger one.” See photo. Guess which is Martin.
B John Good: “Dark” shirt was on top of “red” shirt. [/quote]

I’m not sure I can have a logical discussion about this trial with someone who seems not to realize that Zimmerman is WHITE(*edit: and a gun owner) and Martin was BLACK! I mean, Zimmerman’s ancestors may have enslaved Martin’s ancestors. BANG. Trial over. Zimmerman’s guilty by way of original sin.

97

he George Zimmerman investigation was hijacked “in a number of ways” by outside forces, said the former police chief of Sanford, Florida.

Bill Lee, who testified Monday in Zimmerman’s second-degree murder trial, told CNN’s George Howell in an exclusive interview that he felt pressure from city officials to arrest Zimmerman to placate the public rather than as a matter of justice.

98

Trayvon Martin Was The Bigot, Thought Zimmerman Was Gay

99

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A detailed drawing of the important aspects of this incident.

100

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

…it is illegal for a minor to own a gun…

[/quote]

Is that so?
[/quote]

I was a fucking OUTLAW when I was 13!!!