Stevie Wonder Boycotts Florida

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/07/01/george-zimmerman-trial-trayvon-martin-day-6

Zimmerman followed him in to the dark , some how Martin got behind him , Sounds like an ambush ? Zimmerman was the aggressor cut and dried . These are Zimmerman’s own words . My facts are spot on [/quote]

Your “facts” are speculation.

You have chosen to disbelieve George, despite his taking a lie detetector, every other part of his story checking out, and no evidence to the contrary.[/quote]

All I am doing is telling Zimmerman’s story verbatim

62

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/07/01/george-zimmerman-trial-trayvon-martin-day-6

Zimmerman followed him in to the dark , some how Martin got behind him , Sounds like an ambush ? Zimmerman was the aggressor cut and dried . These are Zimmerman’s own words . My facts are spot on [/quote]

You are allowed to walk behind someone. Who ambushed whom? How was Zimmerman the aggressor? Do you believe he threw the first punch? Aggressor status is usually awarded to the initiator of the physical confrontation. The evidence is usually objective(your neighbor’s jaw is broken) not subjective(you felt your neighbor was looking at you kind of funny, so you knocked the piss out of him).

I doubt I would have done anything Zimmerman did that night. However, there is certainly reasonable doubt that he was guilty of either murder or manslaughter, and that’s what matters. You are still supposed to have to be proven BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT to be guilty. It’s very important that we don’t slip into believing that a person needs to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he is innocent(prove a negative).

63

Did you see Stevie Wonder’s new house?

Neither did he.

Fuck Stevie Wonder and the seeing-eye dog that led him in.

Rob

64

I sometimes get the feeling that a lot of people talking about this haven’t done much looking into it all.

Yes, how in the world does Zimmerman supposedly chase down and catch up to Martin?

Zimmerman is parked at (5), just outside of the top walkway of the T-intersection (7). This is where he exits his vehicle almost immediately after Martin runs down the top of the T, turning right (towards home) and disappears out of sight.

Down the leg of the T, on the east side, is home for Martin.

Now start up Zimmerman’s non-emergency call.

Listen for “shit he’s running,” start timer.

You can hear Zimmerman open and close vehicle door.

Dispatcher is asking directions, Zimmerman is giving last know directions. Zimmerman moves into T-intersection to see which way a distant and running Martin will go next, if he’s still in visual distance at all. Looks down the leg of the T to his right. Nothing.

Zimmerman assumes Martin is long gone running. How do we know? He’s holding a very casual conversation in the T-intersection with the dispatcher. But most telling is when he cuts himself off as he, at first, begins to give his home address out loud. He says he’d rather not give his address because he doesn’t know where Martin might be. He’s only just then entertained the idea that Martin might not be long gone, and so is cautious with his home address. Gives his phone number instead, and heads to the vehicle.

Call is completed.

Stop timer

About 2 minutes since Martin started running near the T walkway and Zimmerman’s non-emergency call finishes up in the same walkway.

If Martin has been running home from around the T walkway, for 2 minutes, how the hell isn’t he home. He could’ve walked home in that time span. So how is he, over 2 minutes later, in the T-intersection for a confrontation to even happen?

  1. He did hide nearby
  2. He decided to turn around and come back up towards Zimmerman.

Did the prosecution even try to explain this?

66

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/07/01/george-zimmerman-trial-trayvon-martin-day-6

Zimmerman followed him in to the dark , some how Martin got behind him , Sounds like an ambush ? Zimmerman was the aggressor cut and dried . These are Zimmerman’s own words . My facts are spot on [/quote]

You are allowed to walk behind someone. Who ambushed whom? How was Zimmerman the aggressor? Do you believe he threw the first punch? Aggressor status is usually awarded to the initiator of the physical confrontation. The evidence is usually objective(your neighbor’s jaw is broken) not subjective(you felt your neighbor was looking at you kind of funny, so you knocked the piss out of him).

I doubt I would have done anything Zimmerman did that night. However, there is certainly reasonable doubt that he was guilty of either murder or manslaughter, and that’s what matters. You are still supposed to have to be proven BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT to be guilty. It’s very important that we don’t slip into believing that a person needs to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he is innocent(prove a negative). [/quote]

You do know how an ambush works don’t you ? Martin if in fear would have every right to take advantage any way he can . He would have been totally justified in shooting Zimmerman .

In my mind there is not a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman Pursued , Caught , Got his ass kicked and shot and killed Martin because he was afraid Martin could kill him

67

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

…it is illegal for a minor to own a gun…

[/quote]

Is that so?
[/quote]

I bet if Trayvon would have shot Zimmerman , he would be convicted because Trayvon was a minor and in possession of a gun
[/quote]

Not talking about Zimmerman or Trayvon. It is not illegal for a minor to own a gun. Got it?

  • My error is once again in engaging the dumbest dumbass on T-N.[/quote]

Fuck you :slight_smile:

68

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
You do know how an ambush works don’t you ? Martin if in fear would have every right to take advantage any way he can . He would have been totally justified in shooting Zimmerman .

In my mind there is not a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman Pursued , Caught , Got his ass kicked and shot and killed Martin because he was afraid Martin could kill him
[/quote]

You answered none of my questions.

If you are saying Martin would have been justified in ambushing Zimmerman, then you are most likely wrong(not that the trial was about whether or not Martin committed a criminal act-it was Zimmerman’s trial). If one is able to take a concealed position from which to launch an attack, then a jury would likely decide they were no longer reasonably in fear. An ambush is an act of aggression.

When you say “caught,” do you mean that you believe Zimmerman attempted to physically restrain Martin before Martin punched him?

69

[quote]conservativedog wrote:
Stevie Wonder… who gives a rats ass?

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/stevie-wonder-boycotting-florida-zimmerman-585760[/quote]

Who gives a rats ass? Well you made a thread about it, clearly more important than a rats ass to you.

70

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
You do know how an ambush works don’t you ? Martin if in fear would have every right to take advantage any way he can . He would have been totally justified in shooting Zimmerman .

In my mind there is not a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman Pursued , Caught , Got his ass kicked and shot and killed Martin because he was afraid Martin could kill him
[/quote]

You answered none of my questions.

If you are saying Martin would have been justified in ambushing Zimmerman, then you are most likely wrong(not that the trial was about whether or not Martin committed a criminal act-it was Zimmerman’s trial). If one is able to take a concealed position from which to launch an attack, then a jury would likely decide they were no longer reasonably in fear. An ambush is an act of aggression.

When you say “caught,” do you mean that you believe Zimmerman attempted to physically restrain Martin before Martin punched him?[/quote]

See, the problem is Martin was visiting his pops and fiance. Martin was where he was supposed to be, he had every right to be there and not be trifled with, as he was doing nothing wrong. Zimmerman racially profiled Martin, as before Martin incident he had called police on other occasions it had been black males looking into vacant houses… He saw Martin, assumed it was a black male up to no good which in itself was enough to call the cops (bullshit) and harassed him (also bullshit).

Sorry, but if some neighborhood watch douche confronted you on your own property/community, called the cops on you because you are white, (because a white serial killer had just killed someone in the community weeks earlier) would it even make sense for that person to call the cops based on you being white? You weren’t caught snooping around or acting bizarre, just a white boy walking home with some fava beans and Chianti…

Well, what do you think happened? Zimmerman saw an unfamiliar black guy outside, called the cops based on him being black… Then, took it upon himself to go out and be Mr. Big time neighborhood watch and confront Martin, at which point he may have rightly gotten his ass kicked for messing with someone for no reason. That’s a universal reason to get your ass kicked/ messing with someone for no reason, you should expect it…

He’s such a weakling he let a 17 year old kid handle him. Instead of taking his licks, he got a busted nose and probably would have ended up with a few more scrapes and bruises, except he had a pistol.

You all know damned well if Martin were your son, you would see it differently.

71

[quote]Severiano wrote:

See, the problem is Martin was visiting his pops and fiance. Martin was where he was supposed to be, he had every right to be there and not be trifled with, as he was doing nothing wrong. Zimmerman racially profiled Martin, as before Martin incident he had called police on other occasions it had been black males looking into vacant houses… He saw Martin, assumed it was a black male up to no good which in itself was enough to call the cops (bullshit) and harassed him (also bullshit).

Sorry, but if some neighborhood watch douche confronted you on your own property/community, called the cops on you because you are white, (because a white serial killer had just killed someone in the community weeks earlier) would it even make sense for that person to call the cops based on you being white? You weren’t caught snooping around or acting bizarre, just a white boy walking home with some fava beans and Chianti…

Well, what do you think happened? Zimmerman saw an unfamiliar black guy outside, called the cops based on him being black… Then, took it upon himself to go out and be Mr. Big time neighborhood watch and confront Martin, at which point he may have rightly gotten his ass kicked for messing with someone for no reason. That’s a universal reason to get your ass kicked/ messing with someone for no reason, you should expect it…

He’s such a weakling he let a 17 year old kid handle him. Instead of taking his licks, he got a busted nose and probably would have ended up with a few more scrapes and bruises, except he had a pistol.

You all know damned well if Martin were your son, you would see it differently. [/quote]

You know what I would do if a “creepy ass cracka” was stalking me?

A few yards from my home?

I would go home and call the police.

72

[quote]Severiano wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
You do know how an ambush works don’t you ? Martin if in fear would have every right to take advantage any way he can . He would have been totally justified in shooting Zimmerman .

In my mind there is not a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman Pursued , Caught , Got his ass kicked and shot and killed Martin because he was afraid Martin could kill him
[/quote]

You answered none of my questions.

If you are saying Martin would have been justified in ambushing Zimmerman, then you are most likely wrong(not that the trial was about whether or not Martin committed a criminal act-it was Zimmerman’s trial). If one is able to take a concealed position from which to launch an attack, then a jury would likely decide they were no longer reasonably in fear. An ambush is an act of aggression.

When you say “caught,” do you mean that you believe Zimmerman attempted to physically restrain Martin before Martin punched him?[/quote]

See, the problem is Martin was visiting his pops and fiance. Martin was where he was supposed to be, he had every right to be there and not be trifled with, as he was doing nothing wrong. Zimmerman racially profiled Martin, as before Martin incident he had called police on other occasions it had been black males looking into vacant houses… He saw Martin, assumed it was a black male up to no good which in itself was enough to call the cops (bullshit) and harassed him (also bullshit).

Sorry, but if some neighborhood watch douche confronted you on your own property/community, called the cops on you because you are white, (because a white serial killer had just killed someone in the community weeks earlier) would it even make sense for that person to call the cops based on you being white? You weren’t caught snooping around or acting bizarre, just a white boy walking home with some fava beans and Chianti…

Well, what do you think happened? Zimmerman saw an unfamiliar black guy outside, called the cops based on him being black… Then, took it upon himself to go out and be Mr. Big time neighborhood watch and confront Martin, at which point he may have rightly gotten his ass kicked for messing with someone for no reason. That’s a universal reason to get your ass kicked/ messing with someone for no reason, you should expect it…

He’s such a weakling he let a 17 year old kid handle him. Instead of taking his licks, he got a busted nose and probably would have ended up with a few more scrapes and bruises, except he had a pistol.

You all know damned well if Martin were your son, you would see it differently. [/quote]

This is right on the $$. The 2 of them may have a past that has never come to light, Martin maybe playing hide and seek on the cross-eyed skinny-fat vigilante. GZ should have taken his lumps, period. His gun was under his raincoat too… how easy was that to dig out at the right time especially with getting pwned in the process? He may have had his hand on it all along, that’s my bet.

Everything gets simpler in a fight where one of the combatants is dead and there are no witnesses. Join OJ, Casey Anthony in pulling off the perfect crime, at the cost of being social pariahs for life.

Rob

73

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:

See, the problem is Martin was visiting his pops and fiance. Martin was where he was supposed to be, he had every right to be there and not be trifled with, as he was doing nothing wrong. Zimmerman racially profiled Martin, as before Martin incident he had called police on other occasions it had been black males looking into vacant houses… He saw Martin, assumed it was a black male up to no good which in itself was enough to call the cops (bullshit) and harassed him (also bullshit).

Sorry, but if some neighborhood watch douche confronted you on your own property/community, called the cops on you because you are white, (because a white serial killer had just killed someone in the community weeks earlier) would it even make sense for that person to call the cops based on you being white? You weren’t caught snooping around or acting bizarre, just a white boy walking home with some fava beans and Chianti…

Well, what do you think happened? Zimmerman saw an unfamiliar black guy outside, called the cops based on him being black… Then, took it upon himself to go out and be Mr. Big time neighborhood watch and confront Martin, at which point he may have rightly gotten his ass kicked for messing with someone for no reason. That’s a universal reason to get your ass kicked/ messing with someone for no reason, you should expect it…

He’s such a weakling he let a 17 year old kid handle him. Instead of taking his licks, he got a busted nose and probably would have ended up with a few more scrapes and bruises, except he had a pistol.

You all know damned well if Martin were your son, you would see it differently. [/quote]

You know what I would do if a “creepy ass cracka” was stalking me?

A few yards from my home?

I would go home and call the police.

[/quote]

That’s actually the right thing to do. But, then you would walk back outside and confront the problem like Zimmerman did, after you grabbed your weapon from the house… Is that a good state of affairs? Is that the way the world should operate? It guarantee’s conflict.

As a man, you know when you’ve crossed the line with someone, or when you commit an act that is probably going to cross the line and start a fight. That’s all I’m saying about expecting a fight…

I’ll also say that it’s incredibly aggressive to go into a situation and instigate trouble only because you have a weapon. That sort of person shouldn’t own a weapon, and I think most people should own weapons.

74

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
You do know how an ambush works don’t you ? Martin if in fear would have every right to take advantage any way he can . He would have been totally justified in shooting Zimmerman .

In my mind there is not a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman Pursued , Caught , Got his ass kicked and shot and killed Martin because he was afraid Martin could kill him
[/quote]

You answered none of my questions.

If you are saying Martin would have been justified in ambushing Zimmerman, then you are most likely wrong(not that the trial was about whether or not Martin committed a criminal act-it was Zimmerman’s trial). If one is able to take a concealed position from which to launch an attack, then a jury would likely decide they were no longer reasonably in fear. An ambush is an act of aggression.

When you say “caught,” do you mean that you believe Zimmerman attempted to physically restrain Martin before Martin punched him?[/quote]

It does not matter what is assumed , what matters is Zimmerman pursued Martin , Caught him, Got his ass beat , and shot Martin. You have to trail the starting point to Zimmerman , who pursued Martin

75

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:

See, the problem is Martin was visiting his pops and fiance. Martin was where he was supposed to be, he had every right to be there and not be trifled with, as he was doing nothing wrong. Zimmerman racially profiled Martin, as before Martin incident he had called police on other occasions it had been black males looking into vacant houses… He saw Martin, assumed it was a black male up to no good which in itself was enough to call the cops (bullshit) and harassed him (also bullshit).

Sorry, but if some neighborhood watch douche confronted you on your own property/community, called the cops on you because you are white, (because a white serial killer had just killed someone in the community weeks earlier) would it even make sense for that person to call the cops based on you being white? You weren’t caught snooping around or acting bizarre, just a white boy walking home with some fava beans and Chianti…

Well, what do you think happened? Zimmerman saw an unfamiliar black guy outside, called the cops based on him being black… Then, took it upon himself to go out and be Mr. Big time neighborhood watch and confront Martin, at which point he may have rightly gotten his ass kicked for messing with someone for no reason. That’s a universal reason to get your ass kicked/ messing with someone for no reason, you should expect it…

He’s such a weakling he let a 17 year old kid handle him. Instead of taking his licks, he got a busted nose and probably would have ended up with a few more scrapes and bruises, except he had a pistol.

You all know damned well if Martin were your son, you would see it differently. [/quote]

You know what I would do if a “creepy ass cracka” was stalking me?

A few yards from my home?

I would go home and call the police.

[/quote]

I do not belive you , Sorry:)

76

[quote]Severiano wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:

See, the problem is Martin was visiting his pops and fiance. Martin was where he was supposed to be, he had every right to be there and not be trifled with, as he was doing nothing wrong. Zimmerman racially profiled Martin, as before Martin incident he had called police on other occasions it had been black males looking into vacant houses… He saw Martin, assumed it was a black male up to no good which in itself was enough to call the cops (bullshit) and harassed him (also bullshit).

Sorry, but if some neighborhood watch douche confronted you on your own property/community, called the cops on you because you are white, (because a white serial killer had just killed someone in the community weeks earlier) would it even make sense for that person to call the cops based on you being white? You weren’t caught snooping around or acting bizarre, just a white boy walking home with some fava beans and Chianti…

Well, what do you think happened? Zimmerman saw an unfamiliar black guy outside, called the cops based on him being black… Then, took it upon himself to go out and be Mr. Big time neighborhood watch and confront Martin, at which point he may have rightly gotten his ass kicked for messing with someone for no reason. That’s a universal reason to get your ass kicked/ messing with someone for no reason, you should expect it…

He’s such a weakling he let a 17 year old kid handle him. Instead of taking his licks, he got a busted nose and probably would have ended up with a few more scrapes and bruises, except he had a pistol.

You all know damned well if Martin were your son, you would see it differently. [/quote]

You know what I would do if a “creepy ass cracka” was stalking me?

A few yards from my home?

I would go home and call the police.

[/quote]

That’s actually the right thing to do. But, then you would walk back outside and confront the problem like Zimmerman did, after you grabbed your weapon from the house… Is that a good state of affairs? Is that the way the world should operate? It guarantee’s conflict.

As a man, you know when you’ve crossed the line with someone, or when you commit an act that is probably going to cross the line and start a fight. That’s all I’m saying about expecting a fight…

I’ll also say that it’s incredibly aggressive to go into a situation and instigate trouble only because you have a weapon. That sort of person shouldn’t own a weapon, and I think most people should own weapons. [/quote]

I carried for years, so did my fiancee at the time. I can’t recall a time where we felt compelled to put a hand on the firearm.

GZ was a weakminded and weakbodied douche who grew to 10’ tall when he was armed. His friend (with friends like that, who needs enemas?) Osterman encouraged him to carry it all the time. Realllll good advice, thanks bud.

I still maintain that he had his hand on the gun under his raincoat, making it easy for Martin to take down an essentially 1-armed man. I don’t know why the prosecution never entertained this angle.

Rob

77

[quote]Severiano wrote:

You all know damned well if Martin were your son, you would see it differently. [/quote]

My son would not have gone to the store during the rain to get candy and a bottle of iced tea. He would have been home. And if he was he would have run straight home and told me about it. Not take measures into his own hands. There is a time to fight and a time to run. If you know nothing about a person you run. You only fight when you are cornered and have no alternative.

78

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:

You all know damned well if Martin were your son, you would see it differently. [/quote]

My son would not have gone to the store during the rain to get candy and a bottle of iced tea. He would have been home. And if he was he would have run straight home and told me about it. Not take measures into his own hands. There is a time to fight and a time to run. If you know nothing about a person you run. You only fight when you are cornered and have no alternative.
[/quote]

You have a lot of faith in your control over your son. Let me put it this way, if you accept he is a free agent, you have to come to grips with the reality that you don’t have that sort of control. How many stories are there about, “My child isn’t capable, my child would never.” We are all human and as a result we are fallible.

I don’t know your son, I don’t wish any malice, and I’m not saying anything about his character. Only pointing out it’s very human to make mistakes or let our emotions/ hormones get the better of us. Testosterone and aggression, things we as lifters tend to have in abundance are pretty common ingredients in altercation.

79

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:

See, the problem is Martin was visiting his pops and fiance. Martin was where he was supposed to be, he had every right to be there and not be trifled with, as he was doing nothing wrong. Zimmerman racially profiled Martin, as before Martin incident he had called police on other occasions it had been black males looking into vacant houses… He saw Martin, assumed it was a black male up to no good which in itself was enough to call the cops (bullshit) and harassed him (also bullshit).

Sorry, but if some neighborhood watch douche confronted you on your own property/community, called the cops on you because you are white, (because a white serial killer had just killed someone in the community weeks earlier) would it even make sense for that person to call the cops based on you being white? You weren’t caught snooping around or acting bizarre, just a white boy walking home with some fava beans and Chianti…

Well, what do you think happened? Zimmerman saw an unfamiliar black guy outside, called the cops based on him being black… Then, took it upon himself to go out and be Mr. Big time neighborhood watch and confront Martin, at which point he may have rightly gotten his ass kicked for messing with someone for no reason. That’s a universal reason to get your ass kicked/ messing with someone for no reason, you should expect it…

He’s such a weakling he let a 17 year old kid handle him. Instead of taking his licks, he got a busted nose and probably would have ended up with a few more scrapes and bruises, except he had a pistol.

You all know damned well if Martin were your son, you would see it differently. [/quote]

You know what I would do if a “creepy ass cracka” was stalking me?

A few yards from my home?

I would go home and call the police.

[/quote]

I do not belive you , Sorry:)
[/quote]

Well, maybe I would just go home.

80

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:

See, the problem is Martin was visiting his pops and fiance. Martin was where he was supposed to be, he had every right to be there and not be trifled with, as he was doing nothing wrong. Zimmerman racially profiled Martin, as before Martin incident he had called police on other occasions it had been black males looking into vacant houses… He saw Martin, assumed it was a black male up to no good which in itself was enough to call the cops (bullshit) and harassed him (also bullshit).

Sorry, but if some neighborhood watch douche confronted you on your own property/community, called the cops on you because you are white, (because a white serial killer had just killed someone in the community weeks earlier) would it even make sense for that person to call the cops based on you being white? You weren’t caught snooping around or acting bizarre, just a white boy walking home with some fava beans and Chianti…

Well, what do you think happened? Zimmerman saw an unfamiliar black guy outside, called the cops based on him being black… Then, took it upon himself to go out and be Mr. Big time neighborhood watch and confront Martin, at which point he may have rightly gotten his ass kicked for messing with someone for no reason. That’s a universal reason to get your ass kicked/ messing with someone for no reason, you should expect it…

He’s such a weakling he let a 17 year old kid handle him. Instead of taking his licks, he got a busted nose and probably would have ended up with a few more scrapes and bruises, except he had a pistol.

You all know damned well if Martin were your son, you would see it differently. [/quote]

You know what I would do if a “creepy ass cracka” was stalking me?

A few yards from my home?

I would go home and call the police.

[/quote]

I do not belive you , Sorry:)
[/quote]

Well, maybe I would just go home. [/quote]

What if he cornered you?