Steroids and High-Volume Training: The Facts

The Vital Whole Human
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If you’re competing in something that allows them, it’s not cheating. If you’re claiming superiority over people who aren’t using them (especially when not being honest about your use), it is cheating.

I put them in the same camp as anything else you do that could be harmful to your body. Being too sedentary, drinking, smoking, eating a bad diet, not having healthy relationships etc etc. I would never use them because I already have some health problems and sometimes even get slight body dysmorphia. If I ever dabbled with PEDs that would likely run on turbo. This is not me saying I make any judgments on people who do use. End of the day we can do whatever we want with our body and it’s up to the individual to weigh up the risk to reward. If I wanted to compete at the highest level then I would start having a dialogue with myself but as soon as I do that I’ve lost the reason I joined the gym in the first place. Health and longevity. Other people have different goals and that’s absolutely fine. We all have our vices, and anything you put 100% into is going to have some negative connotations. It’s up to them to decide what’s important to them, and I will support them with whatever decision they make as long as it’s an informed one.

Now, the casual gym goer developing moon face because they quit the “sesh life” and diverted all their addictions into the gym and steroids under the guise of health? That I can never get on board with.

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Right… in a sense, recreational use (which doesn’t hurt anyone else) is a lot like using other pharmaceutical help to improve other types of performances.

For example, using viagra/cialis when you don’t have an ED issue so that they can perform better/longer.

Or someone without diabetes or an obesity problem using ozempic/semaglutide to help them get lean.

Now, steroids are seen differently mostly because of jealousy: what viagra/cialis “doping” provides isn’t visible and fat loss isn’t seen as something “difficult”, when you see someone losing fat it doesn’t typically create the same envy. reaction as someone gaining muscle.

Most people who train to build muscle have a really hard time getting massive gains… heck, even a small amount of growth is hard and takes time. So when someone who really desires to get muscular but progresses at a snail pace sees someone walking in with an awesome physique, it will trigger envy. And it’s comforting to throw the steroids accusation.

But in all three cases, it’s the same thing: using a drug, that has health side effects, to improve a physical function strictly for vanity reasons.

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You’ve got it spot on. The only caveat with steroids is that “for vanity reasons” can backfire horribly as the potential for more may not ever disappear and what a person seeks is unlikely to ever truly be satisfied. A big thing putting me off steroids is the fear of never being able to appreciate training without them and the damage it could cause me mentally.

I wish more people would get close to exhausting their natural gains and apply the same sort of effort that takes to learn about steroid use - both mental and physical considerations. The guys doing that, nothing but praise for you. If everything has been weighed up and you still want to do them. Go for it. I genuinely wish you the best in your endeavors.

Anyway, I’m going to stop talking about steroids because it is not something I really know anything about. I can only talk from a place of observation.

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Well said.

My observation is that many people on steroids are less than forthcoming about their use, claiming it is all/mostly hard work, great genetics, etc which is of course deceitful. If one is competing at a high level, it is basically a necessity. I recall Ronnie Coleman stating that he “crossed over” because he was tired of getting his ass kicked in competitions. I believe it was Ronnie anyway. I’ve personally never really even considered using, as I don’t compete, and have made decent gains naturally. I don’t feel the health risks are worth the rewards.

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Curious… How do you know they are on gear if they are not forthcoming about it?

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Hello,

I meant to say forthcoming in general. When questioned privately, they will usually fess up. Although a few people I know openly admit they use and don’t try to hide it.

What I usually do is approach someone and casually ask “So what sort of stack are you using?”, operating on the assumption that I already know that they are using. So far, I’ve never had anyone say “nothing”.

I think there are certain giveaways that indicate someone is using. Their skin looks different, they are vascular in areas that non-users rarely are (legs, back, chest). The most obvious, to me, are people of average or below average builds and bone structure suddenly putting on 30-50 pounds in a limited time. And then reverting back to their old selves once they discontinue use.

My current training partner (who I would describe as of below-average strength and size) was on the sauce in the past, before I knew him (this was over a decade ago). I saw some photos, and there is no way he would ever achieve that again naturally. Not even close. A friend of his was a doorman at a nightclub, on steroids at the time. He hadn’t seen him for years, and when he ran into him again recently, he didn’t even recognize him.

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For people that aren’t forthcoming about it (which I’ve mentioned here before in another post), one of the giveaways I’ve noticed is when they mention how natural they are at any given opportunity without prompt. I just don’t believe the average guy that’s just working hard and staying consistent would mention it because they are far too focused on the process to project a lie. It’s just not their world so it doesn’t come into their mind to feel the need to have to mention.

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Or just because of how much it hurts my feelings when the response is always “no shit - had no doubts”

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Honestly, I don’t agree 100% with that.

I think that a lot of people like to believe what you said; people prefer to believe that steroids are magic and are the sole reason for why people have a better physique than they do, rather than accepting that some people just train better/harder, eat better, have better genetics, etc.

Here is the thing, and this comes from someone who has trained people (natural and enhanced) for decades.

Genetic response to steroids varies WIDELY.

I’ve seen guys who were “on” most of the time, using pro-like dosages who barely look slightly above average. For example, I’ve seen a guy using 400mg of testosterone PER DAY (close to 3g per week) and 50mg of dianabol and would would have NEVER suspected him of using steroids. For reference, a “serious” cycle is thought to start at around 1000mg per week. The guy was taking more than 3x that and looked average size, no definition and some water retention that made him look bigger than he really was.

I’ve also seen the opposite: people using very low doses (by bodybuilding standards) look absolutely amazing. For example, I’ve trained a competitive bodybuilder who won the overall at his competition taking in a total of 400mg per week of anabolics and outsize/outcut everyone.

If you are an “easy responder”, yes, steroids will be extremely powerful. But if you are an average or a low responder you’ll gain, but NOWHERE near what you’d expect.

Since most things in human nature respond pretty much to the normal distribution. Those who get unbelievable gains from steroids are around 14% of the population. And around 1% get truely mind boggling results. Around 70% of the population would get noticeable but not spectacular results and another 14ish% would get truly underwhelming results and 1% would not look noticeably better.

Chances are that if you’ve been to commercial gyms, you’ve seen dozens of steroid users but never suspected that they were on (and you might have seen more than a few who you thought were “on” who weren’t).

When it all comes down to it, genetics is still the #1 factor in the physique you can build. But you just have to also include genetic response to steroids in that category.

It is absolutely possible for a natural lifter with really good muscle-building genetics, a great work ethic, and nutrition to look bigger and more muscular than someone using steroids who has a poor genetic response to the drug.

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Sure, BUT the poor responder would still get better gains on steroids than without them, whatever those gains would be.

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Of course. But the magnitude of the difference (in poor responders) would be very low.

There are guys who are, oddly enough, genetically gifted to build muscle but are poor responders to steroids. These guys can get muscular and strong naturally and actually don’t grow a lot more when using steroids (unless they use very high doses). Typically, with these people, when they go “on” their overall size doesn’t change much (maybe something like 5lbs) but they look harder.

My whole point is that, yes steroids will make anyone gain more easily. BUT not everyone get massive gains from them. Those who actually look like they are using steroids are either easy responders OR using very high doses. The vast majority of users will look a little bit better, but nothing shocking or that automatically make them look like they are users.

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I’m not saying that steroid users won’t also benefit from low-volume, high-effort , and load-based work. Steroids and other PEDs will give you greater gains regardless of training style. But because of the way they work, steroids are more beneficial (and thus work even better) with volume-based training.
So your saying it would exceed Dardens subjects’ results i.e. 29 pounds in 6 weeks on Keith Whitley? Or the results of his subjects in the X-Force study in 2012 at Gainsville Health and Fitness?

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These are extreme responders. I don’t want to comment on what could be the reasons for those extreme gains but I don’t know the specifics. For example, Charles Poliquin would often use the body comp results he would get with pro hockey players to tout the superiority of his methods. Like he would say that his players gain an average of 12lbs of muscle mass and lose fat in about a month. But what he didn’t tell you is that, at that time, hockey players did not train in-season and would lose a lot of muscle during the 6-months plus season. The 12lbs was simply regained muscle. I saw the same thing with all the pro hockey players that I trained.

I’m NOT saying that this is what happened with Dr.Darden’s subjects. As I said, I don’t know the specifics.

Plus, don’t forget that water and glycogen is part of the lean mass part. I personally did gain large amount of body weight without adding fat in a short period. But a good amount of that was increased intramuscular glycogen and water retention.

But the fact is that if you give the exact protocol to 1000 people, you might not even get 1 with similar results.

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I’ve run high volume on cycle before, and recovery was way better than natty, but I still had to keep an eye on sleep and food. I used balkanpharm test last time, and the difference in how much work I could handle was pretty insane. Still, I had to back off a bit a few times to avoid joint stress and CNS fatigue creeping in.