Steroid Newbie Cycle Planning

Great post guys. Thanks for all the good info. I’ve done a few moderate cycles in the past, but it’s been about 10 years. I have been bodybuilding/powerlifting off and on for 15 years I’m a weight class athlete, so for me performance and strength without much weight gain is the goal. What are your suggestions for a test prop/anavar cycle finishing with clomid?

This is the cycle I had in mind:
possibly a 2-4 week cycle?
Test prop 150mg EOD
Anavar 30mg/ED (i learned that this should be taken longer)
Clomid 40mg ED week 1
20mg ED week 2-3

My stats: 5’8", 167lbs, bench 265, squat 300, deadlift 350
I used to focus on bodybuilding, but I’ve been doing a progressive powerlifting program 3 days a week doing pretty much only the 3 main lifts. (If you’re interested in more specifics google stephan korte powerlifting cycle.) I’m hoping the this cycle will give me continued strength gains and help me recover from my combination of powerlifting and intense cardio. THANKS!

Newbie or gear vet, when someone makes up their mind that they want to do a cycle, it becomes tunnel vision. That obviously can be detrimental, of course, but if the person is properly informed and committed, the cycle can be done properly. Time off and PCT are a must, and when people forget that, the steroid ‘use’ then morphs into ‘abuse.’

there are a few newbies that have told me I convinced them to wait on their first cycle but not many…I think when people get their mind set it is very hard to change it so hopefully I am in that case at least pointing them in the right direction.

As for time off and PCT I think that is still up for debate with some people (those done with having kids anyway). I think it is necessary but I posted on a continuous (blast and cruise style) cycle because it is done by many people.

I think abuse is a sliding scale but if I had to draw a line I would say it’s when health risks outweigh benifits or when bad choices are being made (like spending huge amounts of money for minimal gains)…very gray area but I think that’s abuse in my books.

[quote]jj128 wrote:
Great post guys. Thanks for all the good info. I’ve done a few moderate cycles in the past, but it’s been about 10 years. I have been bodybuilding/powerlifting off and on for 15 years I’m a weight class athlete, so for me performance and strength without much weight gain is the goal. What are your suggestions for a test prop/anavar cycle finishing with clomid?

This is the cycle I had in mind:
possibly a 2-4 week cycle?
Test prop 150mg EOD
Anavar 30mg/ED (i learned that this should be taken longer)
Clomid 40mg ED week 1
20mg ED week 2-3

My stats: 5’8", 167lbs, bench 265, squat 300, deadlift 350
I used to focus on bodybuilding, but I’ve been doing a progressive powerlifting program 3 days a week doing pretty much only the 3 main lifts. (If you’re interested in more specifics google stephan korte powerlifting cycle.) I’m hoping the this cycle will give me continued strength gains and help me recover from my combination of powerlifting and intense cardio. THANKS! [/quote]

I’m not sure why you are using the clomid during you cycle and not post cycle.

In my books you should either stop before shutdown happens (around 3 weeks for your cycle) or you should run it longer and have a solid gameplan for PCT (the test taper thread is a good read if you want to learn the benifits of tapering). Once you are shut down, you are shut down so you might as well keep making gains for another few weeks.

ok, I think you meant 1st week after you were done your cycle…

just remember that the prop is still in your system for a few days after you stop.

hi my boyfirnd is about to start a twelve week cylcle of tren and test and oxys. Has been advised that for PCT to use novaldex or tamoxifen. Any feedback on this would be good as he is unsure on doses for PCT…

steph, start your own thread - you will get proper responses there.

BUT - you will need to add a little background. His age, his experience with AAS and training in general.
How serious you consider him to be, and how aware of side effects you BOTH are with some of the compounds mentioned… dose of each compound and frequency of administration

It IS imperetive that he does run a PCT to recover from this cycle - but as with most cycles containing trenbolone, there will be at least a small amount of ‘down time’…

I trust that given the type of cycle this is by the choice of compounds, that this isnt his first one?

JJ

Hey guys, didnt want to make a new thread for this question, just looking for some advice.

my friend had some stuff that I took off his hands recently.

10ml test enanthate 250mg
10ml eq 250mg
winny tabs 400 x 5mg
dbol tabs 500 x 10mg

pretty much a grab bag of stuff. what I was wondering was what would be an optimal cycle (or two) with these components give or take some new things.

I have access to test cyp, deca, and eq, so keep that in mind as well. ideally I’d want to construct two 10 weekers, one cutter and one for mass.

stats - 26 years old, 230lbs, 10%bf, training for five years seriously. Done a few cycles before, but they’ve all been test/deca or test/tren.

appericate the input!

It’s threads like these that give the newbies no excuses at all for being so ignorant.

Many great physiques were built and will be built because of this thread.

Steph-If he coughs after injecting the tren then there’s a good chance it’s real. :wink:
Other than that get ready for a b/f with a rocking hard bod, night sweats, and lucid dreams.

He may need to look into obtaining some cabergoline to fight prolactin.

FWIW, I hope for the love of his kidneys that he’s not doing tren for the entire 12 weeks.

Anthony Roberts PCT protocol is still the best I have seen in action. I have tweaked it and added 1000-1500mg of 99% resveratrol and 1000-2000mg of Alpha GPC. The results are astonishing. I have seen numerous men over the age of 35 with test levels >3000ng/dl months after PCT.

[quote]T-Matt wrote:
Steph-If he coughs after injecting the tren then there’s a good chance it’s real. :wink:
Other than that get ready for a b/f with a rocking hard bod, night sweats, and lucid dreams.

He may need to look into obtaining some cabergoline to fight prolactin.

FWIW, I hope for the love of his kidneys that he’s not doing tren for the entire 12 weeks.

Anthony Roberts PCT protocol is still the best I have seen in action. I have tweaked it and added 1000-1500mg of 99% resveratrol and 1000-2000mg of Alpha GPC. The results are astonishing. I have seen numerous men over the age of 35 with test levels >3000ng/dl months after PCT.[/quote]

Hello Matt…I noticed you mentioned prolactin…my doc just tested mine???..
where did you get the PROTOCOL ?

–Nolvadex 20mg for 6 weeks
–HCG 500iu/day for weeks 1-3(I’d suggest you lower the doseage to 150-200iu and do it E3d)
–Aromasin 20mg/day for weeks 1-4
–Vitamin E injections 1,000IU/day for 3 weeks

The resveratrol is absolutely amazing, most people don’t take enough. Be sure you get the 99% resveratrol. If you get the 50% you’ll need to double the suggested dose.

Megadoses of alpha GPC greatly increases endogenous GH levels.

Thank you sir…

man thanks so much for this info is so great thanks again joe

Whats adex?

ARIMIDEX

[quote]
2. You are over 25 but have been training less than 5 years
If you have not been working your ass off in the gym for at least 5 years naturally with good nutrition you have a lot of natural potential left. It is best to exhaust as much of your natural potential possible before resorting to gear. Gear should be the final piece of the puzzle to your ideal physique. By gearing up too soon you may be short changing yourself.[/quote]

You always hear this, but I’ve never actually heard someone give any real evidence to back it up. How would you be short changing yourself? Would it set a lower threshold for your natural potential or something?

I don’t really see why someone who has diet/nutrition down, works hard in the gym would need to wait for 5 years for it to be “okay” to use? Who actually waits that long anyways!?

Pretty much… gear is a tool that helps build your body, so if you know what you’re doing and your body is physically matured what would be the harm?

PS: I’m sure if I don’t add this someone will bring it up - I haven’t even been training a year, I’m not interested in using anything (still riding newb gains), I’m just curious about why people are always told they should have been training for a long time before considering use.

Bravo

I often get asked what is the best cycle for someone that needs to keep their usage on the DL because of work or family or whatever…

Basically my recommendation is usually something like:

  1. 2 week cycles (aka 2 on 3 off, 2 on 4 off)

How
Use a short cycle with short acting compounds (test prop, NPP, Tren Ace, Mast Prop, and orals) that way you will get a small fluctuation in weight (maybe 10-15 pounds at the peak of the cycle over your regular weight).

Dose
You can use a fairly high dose with few sides because of the short duration but you still want to keep things reasonable so you don’t get too bloated…somewhere between about 500mg-1400mg/w total androgens is probably the best area to be in.

If using orals something like Anavar or Oral Turinabol which has less water retention would be a good option or Anadrol stacked with Winstrol at a low dose. DBol is def not something that flies under the radar well because of the high degree of water retention.

If you want to keep bloat to a minimum it would be wise to use a low dose of Adex/Letro/ASin to reduce estrogen. Nolva would be a decent option if no AIs are available as it will also help to drop some water. High dose vitamin C will also flush you out.

Keeping low carb also helps so running a diet high in protein and fat is probably the way to go if you wanna stay dry.

Pros
this way you will get some assistance with breaking through plateaus and overall you should steadily be slowly gaining weight through the year. You should have minimal shutdown after two weeks of use and may also see a bit of a rebound in test between cycles.

You will of course lose some weight between cycles but this is mostly water, glucose, etc that is increased when you are “ON” which will always go after. Overall if you can maintain a few pounds from each cycle it will seem like you are just steadily getting bigger and leaner over time.

It is fairly easy to find two weeks when you can really dial it in and make big gains. As long as you time your cycles well and really focus on eating, sleeping, and lifting during those two weeks you should see good results.

Cons
You are never gonna make massive gains on a single cycle but you weren’t wanting to do that anyway. There will be no dramatic change in physique, just steady progress.

With short acting injectables you are gonna have to inject a lot which, if you are trying to hide your use from family, is difficult (unless you live alone).

I am just finishing an every day injection plan where I would simply fill my pins for about 4-5 days when I got a chance and put them in a side pocket in my shaving kit (along with some alcohol swabs) and I would inject in the bathroom after showering but still this is sometimes difficult to do.

This isn’t an issue with oral only cycles but with a high dose of orals you will usually get a lot of water retention so it isn’t really a good option.

Pinning every day or every other day kinda sucks but it’s just 2 weeks so not terrible.

Example 1 (test based)
W 1-2 Test Prop 75mg ED
W 1-2 NPP 37mg ED
W 1-2 Anavar 60mg ED
W 1-2 Adex 0.25mg EOD
W 3-4 Nolva 20mg ED

Example 2 (test based)
W 1-2 Test Prop 75mg ED
W 1-2 Tren Ace 37mg ED
W 1-2 Mast Prop 37mg ED
W 1-2 Letro 0.25mg ED
W 3-4 Nolva 20mg ED

Example 3 (non test based)
W 1-2 Tren Ace 75mg ED
W 1-2 Anadrol 50mg ED
W 1-2 Winstrol 25mg ED
W 1-2 HCG 100iu EOD
W 3-4 Nolva 20mg ED

  1. TRT

How
Another great option if you are finished having kids is to use very slow acting test cyp continuously (under medical supervision) so that you are steadily getting stronger, bigger, and leaner. You can throw in a little extra from time to time when you want to but generally you would just run on test and a low dose of AI to keep estrogen in check.

In terms of actually getting a script for test you need to find a doc that is willing (there is an article on here called “your doctor, your dealer” that goes over this.

If you don’t think you can get TRT then you can just buy the same stuff and run it on your own as many do.

Dose
Your doc will tweak your dose based on your bloodwork but the usual TRT dose is something like 100-200mg/w test cyp with 0.25mg E3D of adex. Ideal would be 100mg injected 2x/w. If you care about your ball size then you can run some HCG at a low dose (say 100iu EOD).

If you are running it on your own then something like 150mg test cyp 2x/w with 0.25mg E3D adex and 100iu EOD HCG if you want.
From there you can basically just run whatever else you want on top of it (maybe a bit of deca or primo) or you can just run short/blast cycles between blood tests and use the TRT as a cruise to maintain.

Pros
You get pharma grade test, adex, etc.
It is prescribed by your doc so if someone does find out then you have a very good reason for being on (you have a medical condition remember, which is none of their fucking business and fully legal).

It’s medically supervised so you can monitor your health closely and make adjustments with the help of you doc accordingly.
The physique transformation will be slow but as long as you are a dedicated lifter it should be continual. Again this is the point if you are trying to fly under the radar.

Cons
This is obviously a very long term commitment. Probably permenant. You can come off after many years on but not very many people do because they are very unhappy when they do. SO you should be very sure about it before going after this approach.

If you are just running it on your own, short term (say 6-9 months), then a taper is probably the best way to come off.
Again there won’t be a quick dramatic physique change but thats the point. The long term change can be very dramatic without raising many questions.

Example 1 (TRT)
W 1-x Test Cyp 150mg 2x/w
W 1-x Adex 0.25mg E3D
On top of this you can add any short cycle like those shown above or just layer on another compound to be run with the test like say 200mg/w of Deca or 400mg/w of Primo or 200mg/w of Masteron.

[quote]Tumbles wrote:

  1. You are over 25 but have been training less than 5 years
    If you have not been working your ass off in the gym for at least 5 years naturally with good nutrition you have a lot of natural potential left. It is best to exhaust as much of your natural potential possible before resorting to gear. Gear should be the final piece of the puzzle to your ideal physique. By gearing up too soon you may be short changing yourself.

You always hear this, but I’ve never actually heard someone give any real evidence to back it up. How would you be short changing yourself? Would it set a lower threshold for your natural potential or something?

I don’t really see why someone who has diet/nutrition down, works hard in the gym would need to wait for 5 years for it to be “okay” to use? Who actually waits that long anyways!?

Pretty much… gear is a tool that helps build your body, so if you know what you’re doing and your body is physically matured what would be the harm?

PS: I’m sure if I don’t add this someone will bring it up - I haven’t even been training a year, I’m not interested in using anything (still riding newb gains), I’m just curious about why people are always told they should have been training for a long time before considering use.[/quote]

the reason is threefold.

  1. if you have been training less than 5 years you still have a lot of very easily attainable natural gains so why not max that out before going to gear?
  2. if you have been training less than 5 years you likely don’t know your body that well and likely won’t really be making the most of your gear…you are best to figure out what works best for you naturally and then add gear as the final piece of the puzzle.
  3. there is anecdotal evidence that you do shortchange yourself by gearing up too early in your development. this issue is far from conclusive because different individuals may respond differently.