Steroid Newbie Cycle Planning

Pharma
61

[quote]FuriousGeorge wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
Very glad you put this up FG, as I was thinking that there have been far too many “check my first cycle” threads.

Now, whilst it is still a great idea to get a vet to ‘proofread’ your cycle, this is only for final confirmation that everything is as it should be, NOT for us to effectively start from scratch, lol.

FG: I like your ‘5 question checklist’ too. Nice addition to the thread :slight_smile:

Top Banana!

Bushy

I have noticed a steady decline in the usefullness of the info on here. Either I am getting too educated to learn anything (doubtfull) or there is too much crap that is floating around diluting the quality on here making the vets leave and burying the real posts.

I have no issue with people posting their plan for their first cycle. everyone should do it once they have read up a bit more and tweaked the above plan to their personal needs…I highly recommend it and I would never criticize any newby for posting their first cycle as long as it shows some intelligence but when 90% of the guys posting shouldn’t even be thinking about gear it is a waste of the vets time to read it. I keep reading these posts like:

GettinSwole69
I am 16 yrs old and want to straight up do the juice to get huge but not too huge…just add about 50lbs of muscle and lose 30lbs of fat so that I can score chicks at the beach and bench more than everyone at my highschool. I am 5’7" and 147lbs 20%bf. I have been lifting for 7 months and have already added a lot of muscle but now I think I need gear to see any gains. I am thinking of a stack of winny tren and deca shot once a week in my abs and biceps for 4 weeks to gain as much lean mass as possible. Will this stack get me swole or do I need some other super sick combinaton?

I wonder why I read past the first line.

I would be very happy if we could make this a sticky at the top of the thread so that we can start clearing out some of these garbage posts and keep it to just the ones that are serious enquiries.

You read past cuz you couldn’t believe how dumb the poor kid is. If he wants to get “Swole” he should go to a porn web site. Good for the Bi’s

62

why aren’t these in the beginner’s section with everyone else who is obsessed with a two-bit dht cutting agent. JESUS

63

[quote]FuriousGeorge wrote:
MrZsasz wrote:
1)High blood pressure
2)Hair loss
3)Acne
4)Prolactin vs Estrogen related gyno
5)Sleep issues
Ready, set, gooooooo

  1. Proscar/Finestride is pretty much the only option. It is a DHT blocker. If you are prone to hairloss DHT based gear is a bad idea. Primo is a little less harsh on the hairline but will still cause some hairloss. Tren is a 19Nor but also seems to be hard on the hairline (it is thought to act directly on the receptors rather than through some conversion) so a DHT blocker will do nothing to stop it.
    [/quote]

One thing to add–Dutasteride (Avodart) is a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor as well. The advantage to dutasteride is that it inhibits BOTH isoforms of 5-alpha-reductase as opposed to just the type 2 isoform. Finasteride inhibits only the type 2 isoform (of course the type 2 isoform is the most abundant). Moreover, dutasteride appears to be more effective on a mg/mg basis for hair count. It should be noted however, that Avodart is NOT FDA approved for hair loss (yet) and is still undergoing trials.

The importance of dual 5alpha-reductase inhibition in the treatment of male pattern hair loss: results of a randomized placebo-controlled study of dutasteride versus finasteride.

Olsen EA, Hordinsky M, Whiting D, Stough D, Hobbs S, Ellis ML, Wilson T, Rittmaster RS; Dutasteride Alopecia Research Team.
Duke University Medical Center, Durham, North Carolina, USA. olsen001@mc.duke.edu

BACKGROUND: Male pattern hair loss (MPHL) is a potentially reversible condition in which dihydrotestosterone is an important etiologic factor.

OBJECTIVE: Our aim was to evaluate the efficacy of the type 1 and 2 5alpha-reductase inhibitor dutasteride in men with MPHL. METHODS: Four hundred sixteen men, 21 to 45 years old, were randomized to receive dutasteride 0.05, 0.1, 0.5 or 2.5 mg, finasteride 5 mg, or placebo daily for 24 weeks.

RESULTS: Dutasteride increased target area hair count versus placebo in a dose-dependent fashion and [u]dutasteride 2.5 mg was superior to finasteride (edit–at 5 mg) at 12 and 24 weeks.[/u] Expert panel photographic review and investigator assessment of hair growth confirmed these results. Scalp and serum dihydrotestosterone levels decreased, and testosterone levels increased, in a dose-dependent fashion with dutasteride. LIMITATIONS: The study was limited to 24 weeks. CONCLUSION: Dutasteride increases scalp hair growth in men with MPHL. Type 1 and type 2 5alpha-reductase may be important in the pathogenesis and treatment of MPHL.

64

I’ve got two ideas that I’d like to hear about.

  1. injection sites and other tidbits of information that would help make the injection pain free. By that, I mean massage after injection or warm the suspension up prior to injection. Things like that.

  2. We know a bit about the role carbs play in bloating. How about salts?

Thanks, vets.

65

well that is pretty easy. in terms of injection sites there are the following:

  1. ventrogluteal - this one is a little daunting because it is a small spot (between the hip bone and the iliac crest on the side of your hip) but you can inject up to about 3cc’s fairly painlessly if you do it right.

  2. dorsalgluteal - this is the classic upper quadrant of your ass injection you see in the movies. it is a very large area you can inject but it is difficult for those who aren’t that flexible. Max injection is up to about 3cc’s.

  3. quads - this one is a little more painful (especially if you hit a nerve) but there is a fairly large area on the outer side of the quad that can be tapped into. Injection can be up to about 3cc’s here are well.

  4. Delts - I personally love delt shots but I have fairly big (and slightly soft) delts, I sort of rotate between front, middle, and rear to keep from building scar tissue…guys that have small lean delts or are sensitive in that area don’t do so well with em. I have injected up to 2cc’s in here ok (tried 2.5cc’s and it was too much, very sore after) but most say 1.5cc’s or less.

  5. Lats - I have never done a lat shot but it is supposed to be pretty painless. I think you need fairly decent lats to do it. Can’t remember the max inj vol but I would think it’s around 1.5cc’s

  6. Biceps - I thought this was going to be worse than it was. It was actually not all that bad. You can’t inject much (about 1cc at a time) and if you do it too often your arms will get so big that they explode (sorry that was a little valentino joke). The inner biceps (closes to your chest) has a little more nerve endings so you will want to avoid that area.

  7. Triceps - same deal as biceps. thought it was going to be worse than it was. can only inject about 1cc though.

  8. Calves - there are some guys that inject their calves…I fouund this really painful even with a slin pin but if you can tolerate it you can inject about 1cc there.

Hamstrings have far too many nerves to IM there as do the inner quads (inner thighs).

Injecting tips to reduce pain are as follows.

  1. Heat your gear a little before injecting (this can be done with a hot pad…I sometimes just run the multidose bottle under hot water for a bit before swabbing it and drawing the gear.

  2. If using a multidose vial draw your gear with one needle and then switch to another when you go to inject. It blunts the needle a little when going through the rubber stopper (sharper is better)

  3. make sure the muscle is very relaxed when injecting. If it flexes/tenses up it will cause more damage.

  4. inject slowly so that you are not making a pocket in the muscle. The gear needs to seep out and be absorbed by the muscle. If you inject too fast you make a pocket of oil which damages the muscle more than needed and may cause problems.

  5. inject as deep as possible. deeper you go the better the oil will be absorbed. If you leave the shot too high some of it may end up in the subq region where it doesn’t absorb as well.

  6. massage the site after injecting to help disperse the oil. You can also use ice and ibuprofen if you are really having issues.

  7. rotate sites so that you don’t keep hitting the same spot and building up scar tissue.

66

Here is the injection protocol I used when I was first figuring it out:

Clean top of vial with alcohol (if using a multidose), pull some air into the syringe (as much as it will hold), hold the vial upside down, insert needle, and inject the air into the vial. holding the vial upside down (you need to make sure the tip of the needle is below the level of the liquid), begin to slowly pull back on the plunger and draw the desired amount of liquid into the syringe.

replace the needle

swab injection area with a new, clean, alcohol pad

relax the muscle, stretch the skin taught with your thumb and forefinger or pull the skin to the side a bit. holding the needle like a dart, insert it with one swift motion, all the way to the end of the needle. Do this at a 90 degree angle relative to the muscle you are injecting. Aspirate (pull back the plunger a bit) to make sure you are not in a vein…if you see air you are fine�?�if you see blood you are in a vein.

push down on the plunger slowly with a slow, steady pressure. Once the syringe is empty, pull out the needle with one swift motion, and put pressure on the area with a sterile alcohol pad. Next, simply apply a bandage, recap the needle, and dispose of everything in a safe manner.

67

Here are a couple of sites that help to find the exact spot of each of the common sites and also discuss the z-line technique (pulling the subq tissue to the side so that when you let go it traps the gear in).

http://www.breastcancerprofessional.com/contents/public/onc/nursing.pdf

68

In terms of carbs and salts in bloating it’s pretty simple…low carb and low sodium reduces water retention/bloating. Drinking more water decreases the sodium concentration and also has an effect of flushing your system (drinking more water reduces the amount of water you retain).

You up the sodium concentration or increase carbs and you will retain more water.

Some carb cycle to acheive this same goal without looking flat (go low carb until their muscle stores are depleted and then carb up until they look pumped again).

If you wanna see how you can manipulate water retention to dry out and look more cut you can check out “6 days to shredded” here
http://www.T-Nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1957070
This only works if you are already very lean though (under 10%bf).

69

[quote]FuriousGeorge wrote:
Here are a couple of sites that help to find the exact spot of each of the common sites and also discuss the z-line technique (pulling the subq tissue to the side so that when you let go it traps the gear in).

http://www.breastcancerprofessional.com/contents/public/onc/nursing.pdf
[/quote]

This thread is extremely informative. Although I’m natural, I have a friend who uses and I inject for him. The ventroglute he says is the least painful for him, like most others say, I just wanted to add in a little trick to finding it. Im an x-ray tech and the greater trochanter, ASIS and Iliac crest are often used as an anatomical landmarkss. When doing the ventroglute, the ASIS is going to be the most anterior (farthest to the front) of your pelvis where your pointer finger goes, after placing that finger push down hard with your middle finger and you will feel a ridge which will be the Iliac spine.

Now that your fingers are in place and spread in a V, have the person being injected twist their whole leg, rotating it medially and laterally, this will allow you to fee the greater trochanter moving under the proximal part of your palm (closest to your wrist) ensuring your in the right spot. I hope that helps, quite a few people I talked to were afraid to pin there because they were unsure where to place it, even after looking at diagrams, I hope that helps some.

70

Hey Guys another newbie question. I just finished up a test/winnie 10 wk cycle ( Winnie for the last 3wks). Is it ok to be taking creatine or something like a NOXplode during PCT. Im Taking Formadrol and Nolva(20mgs 2/d) for PCT. I didnt find this thread until after my cycle so this is all I have on hand, Since I didnt have any Armidex at the time of the cycle should I be including anything else in my PCT or does that look okay? Thanks again guys you are a huge help!

71

you should be fine using creatine and NOXplode. neither has an effect on endogenous test to my knowledge.

72

Newbie question…
Why do some vets, recommend that any stack should contain the same esters? For example, test prop instead of test e. with tren ace because of matching esters. Could someone explain that? Thank you!

73

Hey Furious!

You mentioned volume of training while on cycle…
I’m currently a Max-OT guy and have gained nicely on once a week per bodypart (direct) training. Would a workout similar to direct 2x (or maybe even 3x) week training (ala Arnold’s Encyclopedia for lack of a better example) be a worth while endeavor?

M,W,F am - Chest, Back pm-Legs
T,Th,Sat - Delts/Arms

Usually this type volume (even using varied loading parameters) would cripple me! LOL

Thanks!

TGR

74

Hey,

I’m a newbie. I’ve been injecting 1-1.5cc of sust per day for the past 2 weeks. Is that too much?

75

[quote]Bike racer wrote:
Hey,

I’m a newbie. I’ve been injecting 1-1.5cc of sust per day for the past 2 weeks. Is that too much?[/quote]

what do you mean 1 to 1.5 thats a big difference. and yes its too much. whats it dosed at?

76

it’s dosed at 250mg tigerblood brand. Also, I’m not a bodybuilder, I’m a road bike racer at 40 years old. I still hold a pro license, but I race age group events now.

77

i myself like runing a cycle of the first 1-4 weeks 500mgs enanthate with 300 deca weeks 4-9 1000mg enanthate 600 deca and 1-2 anadrols a day for 4 weeks that way buy they time the deca and enanthae kick in a week 4 i can really get the most out of my anadrols sence they coust alot then the remaning 9-12 weeks drop back to 500mgs enanthat and 300 deca with no anadrols this cyle seams to have worked verry well for me what u think guys send me some feed back tell me if it sounds good or what i should change

78

1-1.5 cc of sust a day is way to much it has a life span of i beleave 7 days if you are a beginer you should only take about 250 a week no more than 750 and should only inject once every 7 days or me i like doin it monday and thursday and you should stack it with deca or eq game_over i beleave this is correct right

79

Okay a couple things first off you really shouldnt pyramid your dosing like that on cycle as its just going to screw with your blood levels and ass side effects that would be avoided, even if they’re just emotional sides. And you especially shouldnt drop back down at the end thats no good, by that time the Class I’s are in full effect and it would be very counter-productive to your cycle.

Sust is made up of multiple esters. the half life may be around 7-8 days for the longer esters but the Prop esters in it certainly isnt that long therefore you need to inject according to the shortest ester frequency. To really maximize sust and not stimulate any unwanted side effects, sust needs to be pinned every other day. As for a beginner, 500mg a week will give a good return results wise, low sides, and a good “feel” for AAS use and how your body reacts to it. Furious George has an awesome thread here on beginner cycles, give it a look through. IMHO i feel 250 is too low, its enough to shut you down but not to see any substantial gains.

80

Hey Game_over,and muscles101,

Thanks for the replies. To show just how much of a newbie I am, I just need a few things that you’ve mentioned clarified. You said that 250 is too low and that 500 is better for the gains. Since I’m a bicycle racer, huge weight gain is not an option. Some, of course, is essential, but I can’t afford to gain 15-20lbs. Unless I was a muscle bound track cyclist which I’m not. I’m not a pure hillclimber either. I’m a sprinter and time trialist, so I need that extra power. My question to you is, since the bottles of Sust I have are 250mg/10cc. Are you saying that I should do more than a bottle per week? See…that’s how ignorant I am. I’m also doing 100mcg of T3 and and started HGH a month ago at smaller than body building doses. I am 40 after all. But I do look more like 32. What are your thoughts?