Steroid Newbie Cycle Planning

Pharma
225

Hi guys,

I was hoping someone could advise me on a problem i have starting my PCT.

I have just finished my 2nd 12 wk cycle of Test E 500mg/wk and Equip 400mg/wk.

I will probably get flamed now, as am ashamed to say that i didnt run an AI during the course, as with my first i didnt notice any Estrogen sides, apart from a little nipple itchiness, which nolva took care of.

Having read and researched more and more about how everything works, i am beginning to think that my E2 levels are probably too high. The reason i am thinking this is that i havnt noticed any real increase in Libido throughout the cycle and my erections and general vitality have turned to crap. Though i havent had any itchiness at all?

I was due to start PCT of Nolva/HCG/Aromasin/VitE this week, but my supposedly dependable supply for Aromasin has falled and at present i havent been able to source from anywhere else.

I am now worried that if my Estrogen is already way too high, that doing just nolva and HCG on their own will not be sufficient?

I am wondering if i may be better to get back on juice for a short time and take HCG to get balls back to condition and and a different AI(if i can find)then do Nolva, or Test taper, rather than doing just Nolva and HCG PCT in my current state of atrophy and possibly high E2. (it seems the more i read and research on here that not many are in favour of HCG for PCT?)

if anyone could advise me on the best way forward, that would be much appreciated. Out of all the sites i have researched i keep coming back to T-Nation, and am now embarrassed that i cocked up by not using an AI in the first place.

So true that the more you learn, the more you realise how much u still have to learn!

Thanks

226

You said: “I have just finished my 2nd 12 wk cycle of Test E 500mg/wk and Equip 400mg/wk.”

What PCT did you use to recover from the first one? How much time elapsed between the two?

Since your cycle was fairly long, you might want to consider a test stasis/taper (depending on how easily you recovered last time from the same cycle). If a SERM PCT worked well for you last time, there is no reason why it shouldn’t once again.

I wouldn’t worry too much about an AI at this point. Just let two weeks elapse from your last test e injection to allow for serum test to drop below suppressive level before commencing the PCT of your choice.

HCG works against the restoration of LH and FSH so should not be used post cycle. It is great to use on the latter part of your cycle to prime the testes for recovery prior to PCT.

227

Thanks Dynamo,

After the first which was testE only (and only 10 wks), i just used Nolvadex, but i felt that i took a little too long time to recover and felt i didnt keep enough of the gains made. Obviously i wasnt going to keep them all, but i figured next time around, with the cycle being longer and with the equipoise stack, that it was worth a more comprehensive(for want of a better word) PCT.

I was just concerned about having overly elevated estrogen levels this time around and that hampering recovery even further. hence why i was thinking it may be a good idea to go back on again and prime testes before starting nolva PCT.

I am now 2 weeks after the last shot, so i will forget the taper and start Nolva straight away, if you think i dont need to worry about the AI that is a relief. Fingers crossed i dont turn into a eunuch in the meantime lol.

Thanks again

228

Did you use an AI to keep esrtogen low? If not then when you stop injecting test estrogen will become the dominant hormone - i hope this doesnt need to be explained further…

You probably dont have time to get an AI now, so i would say try 40/40/40/20/20/20 for PCT… not ideal but it will help to block gyno (only) as you begin to produce more of your own natural test (hopefully).

I would suggest using the stasis after 2 weeks off but with no AI i think this may be a mistake.

Brook

229

thanks for the post bro, I am still young and was thinking about class 1’s, like decca, var, or primo. Just running them by themselves, not stacking. Not looking to add 20lbs per cycle, good quality gains, although decca water retention. Good post!

230

[quote]bitty wrote:
thanks for the post bro, I am still young and was thinking about class 1’s, like decca, var, or primo. Just running them by themselves, not stacking. Not looking to add 20lbs per cycle, good quality gains, although decca water retention. Good post![/quote]

I have gained 15lbs on Deca/Proviron at 300mg/525mg/wk - Organon - over 6 weeks.
High quality and really nice look. This was my third cycle i think… cant remember now.

Difficult to recover from that time though. Although with low dose HCG during with cabergoline and then Nolva and continued caber during the PCT, i think deca should be more ‘friendly’.

The proviron provided a much needed DHT involvement, and this is the case with all cycles that dont include test, masteron or proviron. One of those should be used to keep libido/mood and male characteristics at the right level… Proviron is very useful as it can be used in all non-test cycles to provide the DHT, where no real anabolism will be given by it but it is an effective DHT based AAS. So adding that with a 8 week var cycle or 10 week primo cycle (both expensive) would be ideal.

Personally i’d choose masteron over proviron as it has the same benefits but added strength, aggression and anabolism.

A simple cycle of 6 weeks of 50mg/day of test prop wont put 20lbs on you, used with an AI you will keep water down too.

JMO

Brook

231

[quote] Brook wrote:
bitty wrote:
thanks for the post bro, I am still young and was thinking about class 1’s, like decca, var, or primo. Just running them by themselves, not stacking. Not looking to add 20lbs per cycle, good quality gains, although decca water retention. Good post!

I have gained 15lbs on Deca/Proviron at 300mg/525mg/wk - Organon - over 6 weeks.
High quality and really nice look. This was my third cycle i think… cant remember now.

Difficult to recover from that time though. Although with low dose HCG during with cabergoline and then Nolva and continued caber during the PCT, i think deca should be more ‘friendly’.

The proviron provided a much needed DHT involvement, and this is the case with all cycles that dont include test, masteron or proviron. One of those should be used to keep libido/mood and male characteristics at the right level… Proviron is very useful as it can be used in all non-test cycles to provide the DHT, where no real anabolism will be given by it but it is an effective DHT based AAS. So adding that with a 8 week var cycle or 10 week primo cycle (both expensive) would be ideal.

Personally i’d choose masteron over proviron as it has the same benefits but added strength, aggression and anabolism.

A simple cycle of 6 weeks of 50mg/day of test prop wont put 20lbs on you, used with an AI you will keep water down too.

JMO

Brook[/quote]

hey Brook…Im about to order…and been going back & fourth,many views on to use Proviron.or .masteron… with test and winny…seems where you read…and i did alot…to help get ripped…or lose weight…seems to be winsterol,paraboln,var…(wont use) and prob…and some with primo…but most here…and other boards say no to that…

so which woulod you add to TEST,WINSTEROL ?
MAST ?
PARABOLAN
PRIMO ?
and with either…should I still use proviron ?
keep in mind…my goals…would be like a boxer…getting back in top shape…and some fat loss,as always thank you.

232

To lose weight you need to have diet in check, AAS wont really do that job for you. In fact without diet there isnt much that does that job for you other than T3.

Tren will help fat burning but is no good for cardiovascular performance so is a no-no. (Parabolan)

Primobolan is very expensive and is sworn by, by some but i have no experience with it in the doses needed to give an anabolic effect.

If you have the winstrol then use that for no longer than 6 weeks, and at a dose no lower than 50mg/day IMO - If liver is healthy (LFT beforehand would assertain this if you suspect you may have an issue with your liver).

I think adding Masteron would be the better choice for you and your goals but it does alot of what winstrol does and more IMO.

Proviron is not needed if Masteron or Winstrol are being used - particularly if test is used. As it provides SHBG benefits and DHT. You’ll get that with winny or mast and test.

Brook

233

[quote] Brook wrote:
To lose weight you need to have diet in check, AAS wont really do that job for you. In fact without diet there isnt much that does that job for you other than T3.

Tren will help fat burning but is no good for cardiovascular performance so is a no-no. (Parabolan)

Primobolan is very expensive and is sworn by, by some but i have no experience with it in the doses needed to give an anabolic effect.

If you have the winstrol then use that for no longer than 6 weeks, and at a dose no lower than 50mg/day IMO - If liver is healthy (LFT beforehand would assertain this if you suspect you may have an issue with your liver).

I think adding Masteron would be the better choice for you and your goals but it does alot of what winstrol does and more IMO.

As always ,thank you sir,My liver enymes where checked and where fine(only on test,never took anything else)…the diet thing Im clear on,I guess I should have said more as in I do not want bigger n bloat…for me,being able to recvoer faster,and train harder,with a good diet,my fat loss will be fine,and best way to take those 3., so far herees what I got
100mg test every Saturday (from my doctor)
PROP EOD
WINSTEROL 50mg a day before gym at night 5pm
Mast ???..
should need an anti,no …??

Proviron is not needed if Masteron or Winstrol are being used - particularly if test is used. As it provides SHBG benefits and DHT. You’ll get that with winny or mast and test.

Brook[/quote]

234

thanks brook…

Hey guys,this would be my 1st cycle,other then being on TRT,just wondering if anyone used similar,to me,and any tips to get the most out of it…differnt oppinons are always good…
its very basic
TRT 100MG A WEEK TEST
TEST PROP-EOD if I can
WINSTEROL–50 mg ED
masteron-- EOD
ive read take some together at same time…some not…etc…
my training schedule is cardio/ and or weights in the am
and combat/fighting training at night 5pm…just looking to get the most out of it,thanks guys…

235

The reason most dont use mast and winstrol at the same time - is because they both give similar results, with mast being slightly more anabolic, gives slightly more strength, isnt liver toxic, increases aggression.

But they both:

Have an affinity binding to SHBG and aromatase.
Do not aromatize.
Increase strength.
Promote lean gains in low BF%

So if you have winny, use that at at least 50mg a day, more if possible IME.

If you want to use mast, save the winstrol.
Put simply, there is no point doing two drugs with such similar profiles in terms of results and uses.

Mast has a point where its benefits/results plateau and it is around 350mg/wk i believe.
That would be a 50mg/day injection.

Brook

236

[quote] Brook wrote:
The reason most dont use mast and winstrol at the same time - is because they both give similar results, with mast being slightly more anabolic, gives slightly more strength, isnt liver toxic, increases aggression.

But they both:

Have an affinity binding to SHBG and aromatase.
Do not aromatize.
Increase strength.
Promote lean gains in low BF%

So if you have winny, use that at at least 50mg a day, more if possible IME.

If you want to use mast, save the winstrol.
Put simply, there is no point doing two drugs with such similar profiles in terms of results and uses.

thank you…so since im not where I want to be weight wise…ill propb use the winny 1st…no ? then maybe with my regular TRT (100mg a week test) tos in the mast i have ??
now what about anti’s ?
ill be doing my TRT TEST 100MG A WEEK…
and adding 200-300 a week of prop…and winny 50mg a day…would this call for anti ? …

Mast has a point where its benefits/results plateau and it is around 350mg/wk i believe.
That would be a 50mg/day injection.

Brook[/quote]

237

You arent listening, and you reek of someone who has some compounds and just wants to use them.

Good luck.

238

not true at all…and what you said makes sense, as I said,you can read for ever,but that will never replace people who ‘know’ Ive read a few articles where,they suggest they do go good together…but I agree with what you said,but thats why I am here… read…research(which everyone demands you do)
and ask…so thank you again

239

Hey there:

In order to run the followin cycle:

Week 1-3 (Testex 250mg)
Week 1-3 (Winstrol 50 EOD)
Week 4-6 OFF
Week 7-9 (Testex 250mg)
Week 7-9 (Winstrol 50mg EOD)

What kind of PCT should I run ? Or what should I take while being OFF.

Im 22 years old
6 years training
Im 5´7 185lb at 10% (Started at 190lb at 40%)
This would be my first cycle. I used to have pseudo gyno so I think im sensitive.

My goal is to improve body composition while grabbing 5 pounds of lbm.

240

furious, great info, thx for posting it. i have a question though, would some gear really work for me. I only train on weekends due to my job(truckdriver). only here on wknds. been giving gear some thought for a while now(39yrs old) and being i live 5 miles from mexico it is fairly easy to get. what are your thoughts?

241

papachey

What are your goals in using steroids? It seems not speciafically for mass building with your schedule. Is it more because you feel your natural test is starting to decline. If so, check out “The over 35 lifter” forum. That is their topic of expertise.

242

grt man grt knowledge,
and i agree one should not, use drugs befroe five years on natural training or before 25 years of age,

243

I have been a member of T-Nation for at least 5 years or so. I was going to start my first cycle a year ago but was not too sure of the gear I received from an UG lab. This time around I was able to secure Human Grade Test Enanthate with very good confidence that they are ligit.

I have in my belt 10 years of training (last 6 years serious), I am 41 years old, 135 lbs., currently doing GVT, I recently completed ABBH 1 and 2 (Chad Waterburys programs).

I eat cleanly following the Precision Nutrition way. I’ve recently finally been able to find a source for some gears. I read a lot about taht for first cycle it is best to use one compound to test out ones reaction to a gear and for easy analysis if a problem occurs.

What I have:
20 ampules of Test E (250 mg per ampule)(aburaihan brand)
Aromasin 25mg/ml 60ml (reseach co quality)
Letrozole 2.5mg/ml 60ml (reseach co quality)
Nolveldex 20mg/ml 60ml (reseach co quality)
HCG 5000 IU (underground lab)

My cycle plan:
Week 1 to 10 - 400mg Test E (once a week)
Week 1 to 10 - Aromasin - 25mg E2D
Week 13 - Nolvadex 20mg\2Xday
Week 14 - Nolvadex 20mg\2Xday
Week 15 - Nolvadex 20mg\day
Week 16 - Nolvadex 20mg\day

My question is regarding HCG, does this cycle warrant the use of HCG? If the answer is may be, at what point do I make that determination? If I need to, is the following protocol correct?
Week 2-10 250 IU E3D

The letro I am keeping for the future.

Sorry for th double post, I think these belongs here.

244

[quote] Brook wrote:
The reason most dont use mast and winstrol at the same time - is because they both give similar results, with mast being slightly more anabolic, gives slightly more strength, isnt liver toxic, increases aggression.

But they both:

Have an affinity binding to SHBG and aromatase.
Do not aromatize.
Increase strength.
Promote lean gains in low BF%

So if you have winny, use that at at least 50mg a day, more if possible IME.

If you want to use mast, save the winstrol.
Put simply, there is no point doing two drugs with such similar profiles in terms of results and uses.

Mast has a point where its benefits/results plateau and it is around 350mg/wk i believe.
That would be a 50mg/day injection.

Brook[/quote]

I’m a type 2 diabetic that inj. 37iu along with metformin once a day. blood sugar & bld pressure both are good. I’ve powerlifted clean & was thinking of trying a first cycle of something very mild. At age 49, I need a bit more of an edge than when I was younger. I don’t want wgt gain, but worry about the effect of any anabolics on my diabetes.
What do you think of something like Anavar?