Steroid Myths and Teenagers

Pharma
121

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
How many of you that claim to be even remotely qualified to give advice on steroid use to teens have anything more than a glancing familiarity with endocrinology, pediatrics, or both?

Honestly, any of you?

You talk about what constitutes a responsible teen and talk yourselves into thinking you know what you are talking about.

Thats group think and bullshit artistry.
[/quote]

Well, thanks for your concern. Here are the outcomes of my previous conversations with doctors.

(When I was 17, with a pediatrician)
“Doctor, I want to get stronger, is it ok for me to take creatine?”
“I definitely don’t reccommend it. There have been all sorts of problems with kidneys and muscle cramps as a result. I would stay away from it. Stick with protein, but only protein in moderation.”

(When my friend used sustanon250 shooting every 9 days, he got depression and was crashing 4 days after his shot because of the short/long esthers. He had a long conversation with his doctor on the phone (normal, adult doctor).
“Doc, my hormones are all fucked up”
“Well, it’s not your hormones we’re worried about. You could die right now because of your cortisol levels.”
“My what?”
“Your cortisol levels. It deoesn’t matter what your testosterone or estrogen levels are, we need to worry about a cortisol blocker.”
“But you haven’t done a blood test yet”
“It doesn’t matter, steroids raise cortisol levels sky high and this can cause heart attacks”
“Well shouldn’t I hvae a blood test to find out if I have any test or estrogen or whats going on?”
“Sure, come in and we’ll do a blood lab”
“Can I have the results of my blood test?”
“Sure, here you go”

*looks at blood test… DID NOT TEST FOR HORMONE LEVELS.

So, no, we are not doctors, but I’d rather get my advice from people who are expereinced firsthand, than a doctor that went through 10 years of schooling and doesn’t know what the fuck steroids are.

Also, many on these boards ARE in the endocrinology field, or have college degrees in physiology, anatomy, biology, chemistry, organic chemistry, pre-med, etc.

122

Whats with the HUGE sense of agression on this particular thread…

This is going to drag in people against roids soon and it will siphon some of the kind nature out of the regular posters as yet another reason why these boards were/are going to shit… sssoooooo better off leaving this thread die before the flame wars begin.

123

[quote]kayveeay wrote:
So, no, we are not doctors, but I’d rather get my advice from people who are expereinced firsthand, than a doctor that went through 10 years of schooling and doesn’t know what the fuck steroids are.

Also, many on these boards ARE in the endocrinology field, or have college degrees in physiology, anatomy, biology, chemistry, organic chemistry, pre-med, etc.

[/quote]

So your individual experience and the experience of a few others who have very little outside of themselves qualifies you to give medical advice to strangers over the internet?

There used to be an unspoken agreement on handing out this kind of advice to people who realy shouldn’t be getting it.

I see that has gone down the shitter with the majority of other good sound reasoning that used to exist here. Groupthinking up bullshit ideas like how to give steroid advice to teens doesn’t make it any better.

124

So is it ok for a bunch of guys who don’t have degrees to advise each other on steroids? Are they somehow qualified to give out advice to others that are 21+?

Also, since many people that post in the BB forum are not pro BB’ers, should we keep them from giving advice?

Since most people in the supplement section are not certified sports nutrition specialists, should we keep them from giving advice?

People go to a forum with a grain of salt, knowing it’s advice-not always fact.

125

[quote]kayveeay wrote:
So is it ok for a bunch of guys who don’t have degrees to advise each other on steroids? Are they somehow qualified to give out advice to others that are 21+?

Also, since many people that post in the BB forum are not pro BB’ers, should we keep them from giving advice?

Since most people in the supplement section are not certified sports nutrition specialists, should we keep them from giving advice?

People go to a forum with a grain of salt, knowing it’s advice-not always fact.[/quote]

Do you destroy your thyroid by using bad advice about weightlifting? NO

How about using the wrong dose or drugs for cutting?

I mean realy, what could go wrong with misplaced and poorly chosen advice about that?

How about growing some tits? Do you grow tits from using the wrong protien powder? No.
How about when you use an aromatizing steroid without the benefit of an aromitase inhibitor?

How about the effects on hepatic function from deadlifts? Oh, thats right, there aren’t any!

Trying to create an analogy of giving lifting advice and steroid advice is idiotic, and trying to wash your hands of it by saying that it’s on an internet board is ridiculous.

Assuming the licence to give this advice, then minimizing the impact that it may have by saying “it’s just on an internet board” leads me to believe that your advice is not worth giving, and you realy shouldn’t be giving it.

127

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
SkyzykS wrote:
How many of you that claim to be even remotely qualified to give advice on steroid use to teens have anything more than a glancing familiarity with endocrinology, pediatrics, or both?

Honestly, any of you?

You talk about what constitutes a responsible teen and talk yourselves into thinking you know what you are talking about.

Thats group think and bullshit artistry.

So what are you saying? That we should just let the teenagers fuck themselves up? Stand by and say “See, I told you not to do that” when they get nasty side-effects?

Bushy[/quote]

Well what are you saying? That You know better than the collective medical community about steroid use, and can control what a kid does with advice from a thousand miles away? I mean, if we are going to put words in each others mouths and enguage in hyperbolic rhetoric, lets just go fucking nuts with it.

Really Bushy, How many teenagers do you personaly work with as a drug consultant, where you can monitor what, how much, and when they administer?

Have you developed a knowledge base of dosing protocols for them, that works with minimal sides and little chance for abuse or misuse?

Cause that would be responsible.
I’m calling bullshit on this whole thread and the concept that giving advice about drug use to teenagers is a good idea.

It’s plain and simple negligent bullshit by a bunch of guys who arent even remotely qualified to detemine whether or not a kid should even be using steroids.

Oh, yea. I forgot. Advice only for the responsible ones that promise real good to do the right thing.

Thats a fucking joke.

128

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
Thats a fucking joke.[/quote]

So do you have a better option?

129

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
SkyzykS wrote:
How many of you that claim to be even remotely qualified to give advice on steroid use to teens have anything more than a glancing familiarity with endocrinology, pediatrics, or both?

Honestly, any of you?

You talk about what constitutes a responsible teen and talk yourselves into thinking you know what you are talking about.

Thats group think and bullshit artistry.

So what are you saying? That we should just let the teenagers fuck themselves up? Stand by and say “See, I told you not to do that” when they get nasty side-effects?

Bushy

Well what are you saying? That You know better than the collective medical community about steroid use, and can control what a kid does with advice from a thousand miles away? I mean, if we are going to put words in each others mouths and enguage in hyperbolic rhetoric, lets just go fucking nuts with it.

Really Bushy, How many teenagers do you personaly work with as a drug consultant, where you can monitor what, how much, and when they administer?

Have you developed a knowledge base of dosing protocols for them, that works with minimal sides and little chance for abuse or misuse?

Cause that would be responsible.
I’m calling bullshit on this whole thread and the concept that giving advice about drug use to teenagers is a good idea.

It’s plain and simple negligent bullshit by a bunch of guys who arent even remotely qualified to detemine whether or not a kid should even be using steroids.

Oh, yea. I forgot. Advice only for the responsible ones that promise real good to do the right thing.

Thats a fucking joke.[/quote]

Advice for the responsible ones that promise real good to do the right thing? THAT’S a fucking joke. Anyone can promise anything… lol I’m not even gonnna bother…

FAIL.

131

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
SkyzykS wrote:
How many of you that claim to be even remotely qualified to give advice on steroid use to teens have anything more than a glancing familiarity with endocrinology, pediatrics, or both?

Honestly, any of you?

You talk about what constitutes a responsible teen and talk yourselves into thinking you know what you are talking about.

Thats group think and bullshit artistry.

So what are you saying? That we should just let the teenagers fuck themselves up? Stand by and say “See, I told you not to do that” when they get nasty side-effects?

Bushy

Well what are you saying? That You know better than the collective medical community about steroid use, and can control what a kid does with advice from a thousand miles away? I mean, if we are going to put words in each others mouths and enguage in hyperbolic rhetoric, lets just go fucking nuts with it.

Really Bushy, How many teenagers do you personaly work with as a drug consultant, where you can monitor what, how much, and when they administer?

Have you developed a knowledge base of dosing protocols for them, that works with minimal sides and little chance for abuse or misuse?

Cause that would be responsible.
I’m calling bullshit on this whole thread and the concept that giving advice about drug use to teenagers is a good idea.

It’s plain and simple negligent bullshit by a bunch of guys who arent even remotely qualified to detemine whether or not a kid should even be using steroids.

Oh, yea. I forgot. Advice only for the responsible ones that promise real good to do the right thing.

Thats a fucking joke.[/quote]

Dude, I think you are taking this way too far! You have to think about it man, most interested teens are gonna be advised about steroid use one way or another. At least these forums are a community of experienced users that can share their knowlege and experience. Otherwise, they will be advised by their peers, in which most cases will be the blind leading the blind!

Know one is claiming to be the Zeus of steroids, however there are those who have learned through trial and error that can teach those who are younger not to make the smae mistakes! And their are those with medical experience (Bushy comes to mind) that can provide a very well educated perspective to steroid use.

Obviously, times have changed and the traditional things you speak of are pretty much gone. This means that you have to think of new ways to reach teens and properly educating them is a very good start to realizing an accomplished goal…That is, to bring the whole truth to the world about steroid use and not just a media biased opinion!

132

I was afraid this was going to happen. People will read through the thread and think it means Steroid Myths = Steroids fine for Teens. Obviously, this is how SkyzykS has seen it.

But I agree with Jazz that he has taken it too far in condemning the whole forum by what he is perceiving as the implied belief here. Still, nobody is saying that teens should take them, only that some teens could take them. The qualification makes the difference.

Besides, every thread started by a teen who is mid-cycle or about to start one generally is replied to with:
1)You shouldn’t do this.
2)You should stop doing this right now.
3)Why are you doing this and see 1 or 2

Your attack on Bushy’s point missed the mark. Unless I am reading him wrong, he is saying why would he turn someone away in trouble when he could help them come away less scathed. He isn’t talking about designing a cycle for a 14 year old just for kicks. And forget teens, if anyone was partway through a cycle and running into complications, I think the human thing to do would be to help as best you could. Which usually involves the advice listed above.

Anyway, enough from me…

133

[quote]kayveeay wrote:
SkyzykS wrote:
Oh, yea. I forgot. Advice only for the responsible ones that promise real good to do the right thing.

Thats a fucking joke.

Advice for the responsible ones that promise real good to do the right thing? THAT’S a fucking joke. Anyone can promise anything… lol I’m not even gonnna bother…

FAIL.
[/quote]

Keevay, you obviously can’t recognize sarcasm. I on the ther hand can recgnize idiocy, therefore you FAIL.
Thank you though for recognizing and proving my point.

134

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
SkyzykS wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
SkyzykS wrote:
How many of you that claim to be even remotely qualified to give advice on steroid use to teens have anything more than a glancing familiarity with endocrinology, pediatrics, or both?

Honestly, any of you?

You talk about what constitutes a responsible teen and talk yourselves into thinking you know what you are talking about.

Thats group think and bullshit artistry.

So what are you saying? That we should just let the teenagers fuck themselves up? Stand by and say “See, I told you not to do that” when they get nasty side-effects?

Bushy

Well what are you saying? That You know better than the collective medical community about steroid use,

The collective medical community all view steroid use as bad, full stop. We here know that’s not the case, so perhpas we do know ‘better’ than the medical community. We certainly know ‘more’ about steroids than 95% of Drs.

and can control what a kid does with advice from a thousand miles away?

What kid or even adult can be ‘controlled’ with advice from 2 feet away, let alone your 1000 miles? It’s a moot point anyway. People do what they want, kids even moreso.

I mean, if we are going to put words in each others mouths and enguage in hyperbolic rhetoric, lets just go fucking nuts with it.

What the heck does this even mean?[/quote]

It means that when you use the device “What are you trying to say” the procede to say something that wasn’t said, instead using a bunch of bullshit, then you are putting words in to someones mouth, which is what you did to start this interaction with me.

Look back a couple of posts. Its right there.

[quote]

Really Bushy, How many teenagers do you personaly work with as a drug consultant, where you can monitor what, how much, and when they administer?

How many? As many as the number of adults I work with as a drug consultant: none. Does this mean I should stop giving advice to adults too?

Have you developed a knowledge base of dosing protocols for them, that works with minimal sides and little chance for abuse or misuse?

You seem to think that juveniles have some sort of altered physiology that makes them react differently to adults. They don’t. However they do have slightly different concerns when it comes to potential long term effects. These effects centre around estrogen control, possible aggression and recovery. Pretty similar to all other steroid users actually.

Cause that would be responsible.
I’m calling bullshit on this whole thread and the concept that giving advice about drug use to teenagers is a good idea.

It’s plain and simple negligent bullshit by a bunch of guys who arent even remotely qualified to detemine whether or not a kid should even be using steroids.

Oh, yea. I forgot. Advice only for the responsible ones that promise real good to do the right thing.

Thats a fucking joke.

So in your opinion, it would be negligent to give advice and try to steer a youngster through a cycle that they would likely do anyway. I guess that you truly do advocate turning a cold shoulder on them, in the hope that they just give up the idea of a cycle. Do you understand much about teenagers? Because that seems like a really bad idea to me.

Bushy[/quote]

So, any and all points to the contrary are moot, you are a responsible adult who can give kids advice about steroid use, and the medical community as a whole knows less about this stuff than you as an individual?

O.K.

Groupthink complete. Cary on.

135

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

Bushy

So, any and all points to the contrary are moot, you are a responsible adult who can give kids advice about steroid use, and the medical community as a whole knows less about this stuff than you as an individual?

O.K.

Groupthink complete. Cary on.
[/quote]

Well… first line doesn’t even make sense.

  1. He’s a responsible adult, yeah.
  2. No kids. We’re talking high teens for the most part…18-21 year olds.
  3. Medical community doesn’t seem to be too helpful towards ANYONE looking to use AAS…

Interesting philosophy.

Are you by chance for abstinence only education, since the teachers aren’t experts on condoms, and the kids aren’t ready for sex yet?

You probably voted for Bush…

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[quote]kayveeay wrote:
You probably voted for Bush…[/quote]

I prefer landing strips.

138

It seems that the entire point is becoming lost despite how interesting this discussion has become.

teenagers or anybody with an underdeveloped endocrine system should not use steroidss.

Does this mean they wont, of course not.
The same way they are still going to smoke ciggarettes and drink beer.

So, a fictional example scenario; a teenager takes heroin with friends and becomes addicted at the age of 16, By age 19 he is fucked up, he asks a heroin discussion board on the internet for help.

does the board a) say your too young for heroin go away. OR b) offer the young whippersnapper the best possible advice to sort himself out and restore his life with the most minimal of disturbances to his health.

Different scenario same principle.
If you choose b) like it or not you have done the right thing, choose a) then really your no better than the shit on my shoes.

No, i am not a doctor, nor do i have any curriular medical expertise or knowledge, i have 10 years of experience & self taught know how behind me which i call upon when required.

Overall, the humane thing to do is to help someone who has asked for help.

I know for a fact my GP knows as much about anabolic steroids as Gordon Brown knows about how to run a country - Thats proper sarcasm right there.

Test

139

Then to make it clear, what I think kids should do is put their time in training at a natural state, and if or when they top out on that, they should start juicing. By that time, they will more than likely have become adults, and have developed a better perspective on health, life, and lifting than they did when they were 18 or so. It requires some discipline and patience to postpone gratification and develope the skills required to reach a high level of athleticism, and that learning and discipline will be short changed if they think that they can gain an advantage without it. I’ve seen that side of it too as a young athlete. There were kids on my teams that thought that they could win of they used, and they were wrong. They were missing those essential elements of developement as an athlete.

On the hypocracy, Thats a load of shit. I do have a good bit of experience with street drugs. So if I see a kid snorting crappy stepped on coke, am I supposed to show him where to get the good shit? Or maybe how to cook it up into rock?
You know, to help him out, make sure he doesn’t get hurt?
No. I tell him he’s getting beat and should find a better habit. It won’t work, but the premis behind it is this-
“You don’t know what the hell you are doing, and you aren’t going to find out here. Move on to something else.”

The point at which I decided to call bullshit on this whole thread and the concept behind it was when no myths were actually dispelled because no one here actualy has the resources or wherewithall to accomplish something like that, and the focal point turned to “What qualifies a kid…” and the consensus became that he should be “dedicated and responsible”. It became a practice on groupthink with a bunch of people bullshitting themselves into thinking that what they were doing actually had some value.

Straight enough for ya?

And Kaaveea or whatever, shut up. You are an idiot.