Stereotypes

I agree with the idea that the culture of a particular racial of ethnic group rather than their genetics is the main cause of the stereotypes attributed to them. Asian American culture promotes intellectual and academic achievement more than black american culture, and black American culture promotes athletic achievement more than Asian American culture, etc.

Black people are not naturally better at sports than others, it?s just that the culture that they grow up in emphasizes sports and athletics more than, and often at the expense of, academics. They?re often faster and more athletic than other races due to a state of mind that they?re grown up with, and the fact that, as has been said, stereotypes feed off themselves. If I think I?ve thought that I can run faster than you all my life, and you?ve thought that you can?t run as fast as me all your life, then I have a good chance of ending up running faster than you. The same with Asians being supposedly smarter than others.

That?s what I think anyway, based only on my personal experience and observation.

JMB

Southpark flashback: And yes, it is a paraphrase because I cant recall it from memory?

Tour guide: ?Not all stereotypes are negative- like the stereotype of Asians being good at math.?

Cartman: ?Oh look, a covetous Jew!?

Stans Dad: ?And here is a figure of a stereotypical sleepy Mexican, portrayed as falling asleep on the job.?

Sleepy Mexican: ?Oh mang, Im not on display, Im just soo sleepy. Im so sleepy mang? so sleepy?.?

I think she meant convenience store. In many places gas stations and convenience stores are kinda the same. I think the preferred convenience store for Indians is 7-11. I believe they will move many miles to work in a 7-11. I like Adam Corolla’s take: Stereotypes are true, thats how they got started. I think stereotypes can be usefull to anticipate what people will do and as a source of amusement. Some good stereotypes. Native Americans drink cough syrup and aftershave. I think this one is partially true. It’s not that most drink aftershave. It’s just that in an area with a sustantial Native American population, most aftershave drinkers are Native American(I hate that term, but what can you say, Indian is confusing). Asians can’t drive. I think this is false. Many Pakistanis and Indians drive cabs. Maybe far east asains(the slanty eye ones) can’t drive, I don’t know. Hey, can the guy who doesn’t know martial arts and is only marginally good at math help out with this one? And now for some little-known stereotypes. Developmentally disabled(retards for you meatheads) people love soda. It’s true, it is their beverage of choice, they can’t get enough. Old men are mostly likely to turn gay. It’s true, the older you get the more likely you are to get curious about homosexuality, start secretly looking at gay porn and then turn gay. So if you see a group of 90 year old guys, probably half have gone from hetero to homo. Mexicans in Southern California love Morrissey/The Smiths. It’s absolutely true. A strange phenomenon, cool in a funny way.

BB: Excellent answer. I agree. Thanks!

Blatant case of a stereotype? You decide when you read the following article from the Gwinett Daily Post Online that quotes a police report:

Man kicks officer during drug search
NORCROSS ? A 38-year-old Chamblee man allegedly kicked an officer during a struggle to avoid being searched for drugs.
Police were patrolling the Motel 6 on 6015 Oakbrook Parkway Saturday when Chang Hyok Yi exited a room, according to police reports. He was covered in perspiration, acting very nervous and speaking quickly.
Upon searching Yi, he suddenly tried to kick an officer ?martial arts style? and continued to struggle as they fell to the ground. Yi was eventually subdued after officers struck his arm several times and put it into an arm bar. A crack pipe and a small amount of marijuana was allegedly found hidden in Yi?s clothing.
He was charged with obstruction and possession of marijuana.
END OF ARTICLE

Did the officer conclude the kick was ?martial arts style? based uopn his or her actual knowledge of martial arts, or simply because the guy was Asian and threw a kick? Also, is there any reason for me to assume Mr. Yi was Asian other than his name, which may very well be stereotyping on my part? Heck, for all I know, Mr. Yi could be Swedish or Cuban.

I think this is a pretty good example of what some of the previous posters have pointed out - there is a seemingly inherent tendency for humans to classify, process, and relate information to those things that we are already familiar, regardless of whether the “familiar” is factual, partially factual, or a total buncha hooey.

Check out this ‘generalization’:

“You can tell a lot about a fellow’s character by his way of eating jellybeans.” ? Ronald Reagan

Bzzzt.

JMB, how do you know that blacks are not naturally more adept at sports? Are you certain its ‘culture’?
Does ‘black culture’ place a heavy emphasis on sprinting?

Black domination. There must be an explantion of why in certain sports they dominate so much. Same thing for whites.

It just can’t be all mind/psych stuff. High willpower is not limited to only one specific race.

Just look at Olympic Track&Field. Normally, in a level playing field/idealistic/everybody is equal/dreamworld, you would expect race distribution percentages similar to population distribution.

And in real life you wind up a line of Black sprinters.

I guess it’s Darwin’s Survival of the Fittest in action displayed in full daylight.

They’re there because they can. If the others could, they would be there too. Willpower has nothing to do with it. End of story.

Cardinal, you are not stereotyping, you are utilizing your experiences. I have never met an white guy or a black guy or a native american or an indian or a mexican with a name like that. Yi is a very common asian name. Its similar to Jones or Smith- you here those you think american (white or black) or european(maybe). I have yet to meet a full blooded mexican by the name Jones. Same with the rest. Its just experience. Humans are programmed to learn from experience and utilize it at future times in order to be able to better asses a situation and better handle it. If you have a knowledge from a priot similar experience, you use it your advantage instead of relearning the situation.

Relate it to baseball- if some slugger tends to hit high outside heat over the wall, YOU DONT GIVE HIM HIGH OUTSIDE HEAT.

Utilizing knowledge of prior events is pivitol to survival. When early man first chased large beasts and tried to wrestle a lion (random animal) and got torn up, the rest of the tribe didnt do that anymore. they would use weapons if they had them or hunt things that had yet to tear a commrad limb from limb.

Everyday you do the exact same thing. “Doctor, it hurts when i do this.” Doc says- Dont do that. And there we go! If everytime you do something it hurts, you associate whatever that is with pain and likely stop doing it. Unless you are a masocist, in which case you are just plain weird…:stuck_out_tongue:

We even utilize others experiences so that we will not have to go through everything they did before we can advance the cause. Its called Learning, and I do it everyday in grad school. I never would have come up with the finite element method for analyzing stress- but some smart sumbitches in the past did, and I learn from them so that I do not have to spend all the years they did realizing and improving the method. My time is spent utilizing and improving the method. It is how society advances.

wow, that was long… the short of it is this i guess- most stereotypes are based somewhere in fact. Somewhere a southerner didnt speak english quite so well and spit tabacco on his kitchen floor. Somewhere there was a soul food cookin’ blues singing black man. Somewhere there was an indian woman who just plain couldnt drive. Now, do these people represent the norm of their representative cultures? Dunno, havent seen any quality statistical analysis on things such as that. But I do tell you this- everyday people around me live up to stereotypes, so it is difficult not to believe them sometimes… ok, maybe that wasnt so short, but still…

<<JMB, how do you know that blacks are not naturally more adept at sports? Are you certain its ‘culture’?>>

No, I?m not certain. And I don?t know. But I have observed blacks excelling at sports more than their white counterparts who have essentially the same body style. That could be seen as an argument for genetics, or it could be seen as two comparable people with different mindsets and influences.

<<Does ‘black culture’ place a heavy emphasis on sprinting?>>
In that coaches who already assume that blacks will be faster that whites steer black athletes in that direction, yes, it does.

<<It just can’t be all mind/psych stuff. High willpower is not limited to only one specific race.>>
I didn?t say that blacks had a higher willpower than whites or other races, only that their willpower might be directed differently. Some sports are dominated by whites, some by blacks. Even in football most quarterbacks are white. Is this because whites have better vision or better judgment, or is it because coaches encourage whites more in this area?

Another idea: If blacks in America are indeed genetically predisposed to be athletically superior to whites, perhaps it is due to the mixing of numerous african ethnicity’s. That is, since ?blacks? in America were and still are considered one ethnicity, when really there are many different black African ethnicities, they did not discriminate against members of their own general race in marriage and breeding. Whites in America on the other hand have historically discriminated against eachother based on what region of Europe they came from - British against Irish against German etc. This kept the gene pools of whites limited compared to that of blacks. Kind of like a minor case of inbreeding.

Of course, I?m not sure if that makes any sense at all, but I?d be interested to hear what ya?ll think about it.

<<Just look at Olympic Track&Field. Normally, in a level playing field/idealistic/everybody is equal/dreamworld, you would expect race distribution percentages similar to population distribution.
And in real life you wind up a line of Black sprinters. >>

This is a good point, and it may completely nullify my above suggestion that whites have been limited by their gene pool. Since obviously many of the sprinters referred to here are in fact from Africa (where inter-race discrimination among blacks still occurs), it may suggest that African genes are superior in speed to others even without ?cross-pollinating? if you will.


JMB

Hm, for some very strange reason the quotes from other people posted that I included in my post did not show up. Here they are, in order to which they were responded to:

??JMB, how do you know that blacks are not naturally more adept at sports? are you certain that it?s ?culture???

??Does black culture place heavy emphasis on sprinting???

??Just look at Olympic Track&Field. Normally, in a level playing feild/idealistic/everyone is equal/dreamworld, you would expect race distribution percentages similar to population distribution. And in real life you wind up a line of Black sprinters??


JMB

Read rather than opine.

Sadly, some stereotypes are dead on. I hate to say it, but when I moved to the city I took special notice that black people in my neighborhood act exactly as they are depicted in common media. I also noticed that Jewish people actually are in fact cheap. I find them returning clothes and arguing with management at restaurants to get a refund, it’s a big disgrace. Of course I’m not condemning all people of these two groups as I’m sure there are more than a fair share of African Americans and Jews that despise their stereotypes and wholly contradict them. Chinese people are more often than not extremely intelligent, hard working, logical, and good at mathematics. The list goes on and on. I have found that stereotypes usually don’t come into being without alot of factual support beforehand to create them.

To hijack my own thread, here’s an interesting article on the topic of one of the causes of a racial disparity on education achievement (hint: It’s a little thing some folks call the “idiot box.”):

October 21, 2003, 8:22 a.m.
Do Your Homework!
Lessons in achievement.

By Peter Kirsanow
The just released No Excuses: Closing the Racial Gap in Learning </redirect/amazon.asp?j=0743204468> by Abigail and Stephan Thernstrom promises to do for education what Edward Banfield’s Unheavenly City </redirect/amazon.asp?j=B00005X21W> did for social/political science in general: Skewer shibboleths and inject some common sense into the discussion.
The Thernstrom’s landmark book addresses the various reasons for the enormous gap in academic achievement between black and Hispanic students on the one hand and whites and Asians on the other. (The average black student graduates from high school with the equivalent of an eighth-grade education.) Some of the reasons are complex and sophisticated; others are not. And race/ethnicity is not the issue. Rather, it’s a host of other factors that largely revolve around attitude, culture, school structure and pedagogical approach.

Two of the book’s findings seem to confirm what many would consider no brainers: Kids who spend a lot of time on homework uninterrupted by TV tend to do better than those who don’t; and kids whose parents demand academic excellence generally do better than kids whose parents aren’t as demanding.
While these findings aren’t exactly startling revelations, many in the educational establishment don’t seem to get it. Over the last two generations, enlightened parents and educators have voiced concerns that kids are doing too much homework and are under too much pressure to succeed.

Popular media has eagerly seized upon these concerns. Reports of crushing homework schedules and blinding school stress have been commonplace over the last decade. Educators worry that kids are becoming too regimented, with the pressure to succeed beginning as early as preschool.

The problem is that these reports have little to do with reality. Sure, some overachievers work like crazy. But that’s been the case for generations. Several recent reports reveal that the homework burden has remained virtually flat over the last 50 years.

A RAND study, “A Nation at Rest: The American Way of Homework,” determined that the typical American high-school student spends only about five hours a week on homework. A Brookings Institution review of several studies on the homework levels of the top 20 industrialized countries shows that students in the U.S. rank near the bottom in the amount of homework done on a daily basis.

Some educators, however, are impervious to facts. The trend at many schools is to assign less homework. Some schools go so far as to discourage their teachers from assigning more than “manageable” amounts of homework - which often means that students are homework-free several times per week.
Of course, everyone knows there’s a big difference between how much homework is assigned and how much is actually done. And then there’s the matter of concentration: Even the Gettysburg Address can seem interminable when interrupted by long stretches of Monday Night Football or CSI.

The Thernstroms note that National Assessment of Educational Progress (“NAEP”) data reveal Asian-American students spend more time on homework than black, Hispanic, or white students. Interestingly, the amount of time spent each day on homework by the latter three groups is roughly the same. But, an NAEP study of TV watching habits shows that almost half of black fourth graders spend five hours or more watching TV on a typical school day. Nearly a third of black twelfth graders watch five hours or more of TV a day. That’s five times the proportion among whites and more than twice that for Hispanics. This vast amount of TV watching by black students might explain another finding noted by the Thernstroms: Harvard economist Ronald F. Ferguson’s survey of students in 15 affluent school districts shows that black students “were 20% less likely to complete their homework each night.” Ferguson also reports that nearly half of all black students state that most of the time they don’t understand their reading assignments very well - nearly twice the rate of non-comprehension for white students.

The Thernstroms also cite Laurence Steinberg’s analysis regarding the “trouble threshold” - the lowest grade students can receive before getting in trouble with their parents. For Asian-American students, that point is an A-; for whites, a B-; and for blacks and Hispanics, a C-. It stands to reason that students who get in trouble for getting a B+ will work a bit harder than students who can skate until they bring home a D+. The former are more likely to turn off the TV and concentrate on their studies. They’ll make sure they not only finish their homework, but understand it.
Several commentators have observed that the racial gap in academic achievement is today’s most important “civil-rights” issue. Closing the gap won’t be easy. But it starts with something as simple as turning off the TV and doing your homework.