Well I’ve been convinced on this thread that our fine teachers need a raise, more time off, fewer pupils in each class, and most of all, free psychoanalysis.
[quote]kroc30 wrote:
BTW, just to bring this back to a more mature discussion (including myself), several states, including my own (NY) require teachers to get their Master’s degrees within a certain time period (5 years for us)after we receive our certification.
It goes with the idea of creating more highly qualified and better teachers. The pay increases (and no, I’m not bitching about the money) are to even out the fact that several other industries also reward (whether we agree or not) higher degrees, qualifications and experience. [/quote]
Kroc,Being your in The Big Apple I thought you might find this funny.Back in 74-75,I had a engish teacher,that was very nasty.She made it known that she was jewish and from NYC.She considered herself very intelligent.Her name was Kaplan,She had the class write SA’s about things you did as a hobby.I used to Coon Hunt with my uncle and his friends when i was a kid so i wrote an SA about it.
Mrs. Kaplan seemed very upset with my paper and sent a letter home to my parent that she had to see them.She wouldnt tell me the reason. I thought ,gee i didnt think my SA was good enough to warrant attention like this.My Mom and Dad made a special trip out of their busy schedule to see her,when they came home my dad was pissed and my mom couldnt believe it.
Some how This 9th grade English teacher that considered herself so intelligent told my mom and dad she thought i was writing a story about Hunting Black people.What kind of F’d up mentality do you think this scholar had.
[quote]orion wrote:
kroc30 wrote:
BTW, just to bring this back to a more mature discussion (including myself), several states, including my own (NY) require teachers to get their Master’s degrees within a certain time period (5 years for us)after we receive our certification.
It goes with the idea of creating more highly qualified and better teachers. The pay increases (and no, I’m not bitching about the money) are to even out the fact that several other industries also reward (whether we agree or not) higher degrees, qualifications and experience.
They do, when it is relevant for the job and only insofar it is relevant for the job.
What is the easiest way to find out what actually is relevant?
Easy, let the market decide.
This does not go against you personally, but I cringe when I hear teachers argue against a market in education, it must be odd to think of oneself as sub-standard and hide behind BS laws.[/quote]
Once again, NY has very few BS laws to hide behind. If you go just East from where I work, onto Long Island, and then include the city, there are well over 100 separate school districts in a relatively small area, each fully independent of the other, with their own salary scales, etc. This creates the “market” and competition that you speak of, since each district has its own positives and negatives, whether it’s pay, benefits, community relations, etc.
I would agree that several states and other areas have the problem you state above, but that is definitely not the case up here. Very few teachers nowadays make it to tenure if they can’t hack it, and the districts where it’s considered “easy” to get tenure are few and far between.
Years ago, when there was a shortage of teachers up here, that wasn’t the case, and other areas around the nation are still dealing with that problem. But like any other industry in a market economy, more money and other perks have been added to create the desire for teachers to either move out of state and go elsewhere to teach or to hold on to the good ones they have.
I don’t know if it’s still done, but at one point, when I was first teaching and looking around other areas of the country, I believe a site run by the state of Florida actually mentioned that they would even cover moving costs to get NYS certified teachers down there because we have some of the highest certification standards in the nation.
Even in NYC, extra money and benefits are given to accept teaching jobs in schools and areas considered subpar to attempt to create the market and demand to get the good teachers over there. Is it effective? Who knows for sure, but at least the measures are being created to correct some of the problems in the system.
If you spoke to me even 18 months ago or so about NCLB, I’d tell you that it was one of the biggest, worthless pieces of crap out there, however, whether or not it was poorly implemented at the time, it has in the bigger picture made the educational system in our country more accountable, and overall more effective than it was even 10 years ago to prevent substandard teachers and administrators from hiding behind legislation.
[quote]Go-Rilla wrote:
Well I’ve been convinced on this thread that our fine teachers need a raise, more time off, fewer pupils in each class, and most of all, free psychoanalysis.
[/quote]
Magilla, are you one of those people who always need to get the last word???
[quote]ron33 wrote:
kroc30 wrote:
BTW, just to bring this back to a more mature discussion (including myself), several states, including my own (NY) require teachers to get their Master’s degrees within a certain time period (5 years for us)after we receive our certification.
It goes with the idea of creating more highly qualified and better teachers. The pay increases (and no, I’m not bitching about the money) are to even out the fact that several other industries also reward (whether we agree or not) higher degrees, qualifications and experience.
Kroc,Being your in The Big Apple I thought you might find this funny.Back in 74-75,I had a engish teacher,that was very nasty.She made it known that she was jewish and from NYC.She considered herself very intelligent.Her name was Kaplan,She had the class write SA’s about things you did as a hobby.I used to Coon Hunt with my uncle and his friends when i was a kid so i wrote an SA about it.
Mrs. Kaplan seemed very upset with my paper and sent a letter home to my parent that she had to see them.She wouldnt tell me the reason. I thought ,gee i didnt think my SA was good enough to warrant attention like this.My Mom and Dad made a special trip out of their busy schedule to see her,when they came home my dad was pissed and my mom couldnt believe it.
Some how This 9th grade English teacher that considered herself so intelligent told my mom and dad she thought i was writing a story about Hunting Black people.What kind of F’d up mentality do you think this scholar had.
[/quote]
LOL - Actually, it’s funny as hell. I don’t know where you’re from but you’ve gotta remember that no little old Jewish Lady from NYC has ever seen a racoon, except at the Bronx Zoo!!! I live about an hour from my school on the East End of Long Island and the kids I teach have no comprehension that the only gunshots I hear at any time are from deer hunters, and not gang members!!!
[quote]ron33 wrote:
Kroc,Being your in The Big Apple I thought you might find this funny.Back in 74-75,I had a engish teacher,that was very nasty.She made it known that she was jewish and from NYC.She considered herself very intelligent.Her name was Kaplan,She had the class write SA’s about things you did as a hobby.I used to Coon Hunt with my uncle and his friends when i was a kid so i wrote an SA about it.
Mrs. Kaplan seemed very upset with my paper and sent a letter home to my parent that she had to see them.She wouldnt tell me the reason. I thought ,gee i didnt think my SA was good enough to warrant attention like this.My Mom and Dad made a special trip out of their busy schedule to see her,when they came home my dad was pissed and my mom couldnt believe it.
Some how This 9th grade English teacher that considered herself so intelligent told my mom and dad she thought i was writing a story about Hunting Black people.What kind of F’d up mentality do you think this scholar had.
[/quote]
I’d be more troubled if a high school teacher called essays “SA’s”.
[quote]kroc30 wrote:
…
If you spoke to me even 18 months ago or so about NCLB, I’d tell you that it was one of the biggest, worthless pieces of crap out there, however, whether or not it was poorly implemented at the time, it has in the bigger picture made the educational system in our country more accountable, and overall more effective than it was even 10 years ago to prevent substandard teachers and administrators from hiding behind legislation.[/quote]
Exactly what NCLB was meant to do. It was implemented with typical federal incompetence. When the republicans and Ted Kennedy cooperate it it is likely to be a disaster.
NYS schools are among the best in the nation. Unfortunately we have too many bad school systems in the country and they needed some sort of kick in the ass.
[quote]Marmadogg wrote:
Where will the money come from?
Tax and spend?[/quote]
BUMP!
Do any of the teachers out there that cry about their income want to tell me who is suppose to pay for their salary increases?
Crickets…
[quote]Marmadogg wrote:
Marmadogg wrote:
Where will the money come from?
Tax and spend?
BUMP!
Do any of the teachers out there that cry about their income want to tell me who is suppose to pay for their salary increases?
Crickets…[/quote]
Couple of different possibilities, which even though none of the teachers on this thread have really addressed or moaned about, I’ll help you out with anyway.
#1 is the evil that none of us, including myself, wants which is higher property and school taxes. Long Island, where I live has some of the highest property taxes in the nation already.
#2 is the combination of school districts to combine resources. I can’t speak for NJ, but since you guys are close to us geographically, and in population make-up, I would assume you’re in the same situation, which is the fact that there are many, many school districts, some of which could easily combine to pool resources, or merge altogether.
This would open up jobs and money by eliminating some of the administrative positions that would be doubled up. For example, most superintendents make somewhere around 150k. Just eliminating that one position in a merger would open up money to pay for approximately 3 teachers.
Throw in the salaries of the other administrators such as the Assistant Sups, department heads, etc, and you could easily cover 15 to 20 teacher salaries or be passed back to the residents in the form of lower taxes.
#3 is the reallocation of resources throughout the state, in general. This however, would require politicians to admit they messed up some of their priorities and screwed up the allocation of some resources in the first place. Not gonna happen.
#4 is to stop giving tax breaks to the major corporations in your area to set up and operate there. That will never, ever happen since they will pick up and go elsewhere. Better overall in the big picture to give a tax break and at least have more jobs for the area’s economy.
I’m sure there’s other, reasonable possibilities, but I haven’t finished my coffee yet.
[quote]doogie wrote:
The best teachers are Teach For America graduates who only teach for two or three years.
Passionate, well trained, and in and out before they burn out.[/quote]
I read about a dude who did just that, in Washington DC. He was idealistic, had just worked on the Kerry campaign. He got sued for touching a kid on the shoulder. The kid told his mom that the guy punched him in the chest.
Going into the inner city…big mistake. Teach in rich suburbs, where the students will be real ‘players’ in the future. I’ve had West Point grads, Harvard, Brown, Wharton,…you name it. Sure beats teaching Trigonometry For Terrorists.
[quote]Marmadogg wrote:
Marmadogg wrote:
Where will the money come from?
Tax and spend?
BUMP!
Do any of the teachers out there that cry about their income want to tell me who is suppose to pay for their salary increases?
Crickets…[/quote]
Oh, I forgot #5, it may be only a regional problem for Long Island, but we could also make sure the administrators don’t embezzle school funds. We’ve had at least 6 or 7 jailed in the last few years for stealing literally millions from the school districts.
[quote]Marmadogg wrote:
Marmadogg wrote:
Where will the money come from?
Tax and spend?
BUMP!
Do any of the teachers out there that cry about their income want to tell me who is suppose to pay for their salary increases?
Crickets…[/quote]
You bumped yourself? What a fucking moron…
I already told you…fire 90% of the administrators. Also, quit spending money on everything but the teachers. The public system in the next town built a brand-new admin center, then laid off a bunch of teachers. More fucking morons…
[quote]kroc30 wrote:
BTW, just to bring this back to a more mature discussion (including myself), several states, including my own (NY) require teachers to get their Master’s degrees within a certain time period (5 years for us)after we receive our certification.
It goes with the idea of creating more highly qualified and better teachers. The pay increases (and no, I’m not bitching about the money) are to even out the fact that several other industries also reward (whether we agree or not) higher degrees, qualifications and experience. [/quote]
Yup. The hoops we have to jump through for the wonderful $27000 to start (or some other equally insulting number) and KEEP teaching is incredible.
Then: nothing like having a 25 year old dweeb college ‘prof’ trying to tell me how to teach, in the update bs courses we have to take. LMAO!!
Like I’ve said before, if it wasn’t for the kids, I’d NEVER do this. I’d be an actuarial or accountant.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
doogie wrote:
The best teachers are Teach For America graduates who only teach for two or three years.
Passionate, well trained, and in and out before they burn out.
I read about a dude who did just that, in Washington DC. He was idealistic, had just worked on the Kerry campaign. He got sued for touching a kid on the shoulder. The kid told his mom that the guy punched him in the chest.
Going into the inner city…big mistake. Teach in rich suburbs, where the students will be real ‘players’ in the future. I’ve had West Point grads, Harvard, Brown, Wharton,…you name it. Sure beats teaching Trigonometry For Terrorists.
[/quote]
Absolutely true, but in the rich suburbs, you also have to deal alot more with the parents who swear their kids can do no wrong, or give you reasons why they need to pass even though they cut you 30 out of 40 class sessions for the marking period or they’ll sue. False accusations are the reasons you leave your door open if you’re ever close to being alone with a student. I personally will bring someone to another room or make sure someone is close by to prevent just such an incident.
[quote]kroc30 wrote:
Go-Rilla wrote:
Well I’ve been convinced on this thread that our fine teachers need a raise, more time off, fewer pupils in each class, and most of all, free psychoanalysis.
Magilla, are you one of those people who always need to get the last word???[/quote]
No, not really. I’ll let you have the last word on this, much like I would any female in this type of argument.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
kroc30 wrote:
BTW, just to bring this back to a more mature discussion (including myself), several states, including my own (NY) require teachers to get their Master’s degrees within a certain time period (5 years for us)after we receive our certification.
It goes with the idea of creating more highly qualified and better teachers. The pay increases (and no, I’m not bitching about the money) are to even out the fact that several other industries also reward (whether we agree or not) higher degrees, qualifications and experience.
Yup. The hoops we have to jump through for the wonderful $27000 to start (or some other equally insulting number) and KEEP teaching is incredible.
Then: nothing like having a 25 year old dweeb college ‘prof’ trying to tell me how to teach, in the update bs courses we have to take. LMAO!!
Like I’ve said before, if it wasn’t for the kids, I’d NEVER do this. I’d be an actuarial or accountant.
[/quote]
Why don’t you set that stuff up on the side? I’m not sure about actuary, but you definitely could set up a pretty lucrative tax business on the accounting side.
Being an actuary is one of the best jobs in America. Trouble is though that I really enjoy being around the energy of kids. Being in an office is torture to me.
I honestly think I was born to do this particular vocation. I can’t imagine doing anything else and would miss it terribly if I left.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Being an actuary is one of the best jobs in America. Trouble is though that I really enjoy being around the energy of kids. Being in an office is torture to me.
I honestly think I was born to do this particular vocation. I can’t imagine doing anything else and would miss it terribly if I left.[/quote]
Same here. I took some time off and went back to business full time and hated every minute. I’d rather take this and make up the extra money by tutoring and my landscaping business.
[quote]Go-Rilla wrote:
kroc30 wrote:
Go-Rilla wrote:
Well I’ve been convinced on this thread that our fine teachers need a raise, more time off, fewer pupils in each class, and most of all, free psychoanalysis.
Magilla, are you one of those people who always need to get the last word???
No, not really. I’ll let you have the last word on this, much like I would any female in this type of argument.
[/quote]
That’s ok, you just proved my point. You’re like a Duracell bunny. You just keep going, and going, and going…
[quote]kroc30 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
doogie wrote:
The best teachers are Teach For America graduates who only teach for two or three years.
Passionate, well trained, and in and out before they burn out.
I read about a dude who did just that, in Washington DC. He was idealistic, had just worked on the Kerry campaign. He got sued for touching a kid on the shoulder. The kid told his mom that the guy punched him in the chest.
Going into the inner city…big mistake. Teach in rich suburbs, where the students will be real ‘players’ in the future. I’ve had West Point grads, Harvard, Brown, Wharton,…you name it. Sure beats teaching Trigonometry For Terrorists.
Absolutely true, but in the rich suburbs, you also have to deal alot more with the parents who swear their kids can do no wrong, or give you reasons why they need to pass even though they cut you 30 out of 40 class sessions for the marking period or they’ll sue. False accusations are the reasons you leave your door open if you’re ever close to being alone with a student. I personally will bring someone to another room or make sure someone is close by to prevent just such an incident.
[/quote]
Wanted to get your take on this.During the yrs. that Billy Boy was potus,my kids schools were getting new computers,books playground equip. etc.Since W and his bunch have been in control the schools have’nt recieved anything new,in fact the teachers have had to buy paper, supplies etc. with their own money,which i dont think they should have to do.
Also some of the parents do fund raisors to buy needed school supps.In the last few yrs. they built a new indoor sports complex which im sure there were plenty of kick backs to school board mems. admin. etc.But then they dont have money for everyday supplies.
I think if the kids want to play sports they should have to buy their own equipment ,in the area i’m in the kids that are good atheletes dont make the team unless grandma -pa or mom and dad have money and connections,small community school system.
There have been several kids that were great at sports then when they came to jr. high didnt make the team and several it affected and they eventually became frustrated and dropped out of school,these were kids that did’nt have great homelife’s and their sports made things bareable,but when they werent selected because of politics they eventually gave up.