Statistical Progression

@Andrewgen_Receptors
Yeah it makes sense.

I am working with an 8-12 rep range currently, but it is arbitrary, and I’m good with 6-12. I’m still working on finding the right weight. My most recent workouts were while ill so I chose a weight that I could get more reps with (because the thought of pushing the weight made me feel worse), but I might have undershot it. I was using a 2 reps in reserve stopping point (based on research comparing 1-5 reps in reserve vs. failure), but I have gone to failure before and am fine with it. Are you recommending going to failure because it’s only my second year lifting and failure is typically more effective for beginning lifters?

Also, what is the advantage of 2 hard sets vs. 3? Just more effective when using the progression model? Or does the third set really fall off because of muscle fatigue, especially when pushing to failure?

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Well, I recommend training to failure for everyone who wants more muscle, but in varying degrees. You aren’t new, but you aren’t seasoned (yet). It’s a good place to be.

So whereas I typically would give a newcomer the Phraks Greyskull LP template and have them do the last set to failure (3 exercises per day, 3 total sets to failure per day), you will have a minimum of 5 sets to failure per day. I think you can handle that.

The only valid research I’ve seen for keeping reps in reserve is when training for strength purposes. In regards to hypertrophy purposes - I’ve seen Renaissance Periodization’s method of keeping RIR, but the data is theoretical, and based on outdated studies that have some bias involved.
What’s worse, is that if it were scientifically valid, the results would be able to be reproduced. They cannot be.

Training to failure, or at least RIR 0-2 is shown to be most effective.
I don’t recommend someone without some considerable time in the gym to be doing this, as you need to have a very stable understanding of what exercises work best for this method.

Sort of, yes. There is a triple progression model that is the same as the double progression model - but with 3 sets needing to be in target range.
I don’t like this, because you are likely too far from failure in both the first and second set, for these to be effective sets. In other terms: I think the first two sets are basically junk volume.

With the double progression model, I think the first set is subjectively junk volume, but not always. It also gives some grace to the trainee who may not be sufficiently comfortable with failure, to get more than one chance at having an effective set.

A full failure-based system is a bit unnerving to run, to be totally honest. I do this now, and I’m often nervous before my next set because I know I have to hit one more rep than I did last time - and that’s asking a LOT.
Your training, frankly, doesn’t need to be that miserable. It’s a good thing,

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@Andrewgen_Receptors
Right on. I like training to failure so I’m good with it. My first program was a train to failure program and double progression-ish model, except the first set was 6-8 heavier and the second was 8-10 less heavy. I like the double progression model though. It makes sense.

Yeah the research I referred to was the research mentioned by RP.

I’ll tweak it this way and see how it goes.

I forgot to say that I’m currently doing a 2-3 second slow negative and pause at the bottom for each rep across all exercises. Both RP and E. Darden like slow negatives. One of the programs I did previously was Darden’s super slow negatives program. What are your thoughts on slow eccentrics?

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They’re great, but not at the cost of reps IMO.

A steady and controlled eccentric portion is plenty. Intentionally using 2-3 second eccentrics is more helpful for when a trainee needs help ‘feeling’ the target muscle. Otherwise, I would not recommend intentionally slowing the rep to such lengths. 1:1 eccentric:concentric should be fine.

There are ways to accentuate eccentrics that are more practical, like cheat curls with slower eccentrics for example. But those are better left to when you need things like that; it sounds that you are not there (yet).

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Changed to two heavier sets. Finding my weight.

Tuesday

Bench 2x8x150
Incline 2x8x115
DB bench 2x8x50
Tricep push down 2x8x10
Calves 2x10x240
RDL 2x8x185 (forgot straps)
Leg curl seated 2x8x130

Wednesday

One arm DB row 8x70, 8x80
Lat pull down 2x8x125
Barbell curl 8x55, 8x70
Hack squat 2x8x90 (got interrupted here)

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DB RDL - 8x75, 8x75
DB Row - 8x85, 8x85, 8x85
Lat Pull (diff machine than usual) - 8x155, 8x170
Barbell curl - 8x70, 8x70
Calf Raises 10x250, 10x250

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Squat (Atlantis Machine) 8x90, 8x115 (should use 115 both sets next time, maybe 125)
Leg Press - 8x400, 8x400 (add weight next time, maybe 10s or 25s)
Leg Curl - 8x140, 8x140, 8x140 (definitely go to 150 next time and add weight maybe to 160 for 2 sets. 170 for one set of 6 is my PR. I feel pretty good about surpassing that. My knees feel good)
Seated calf raise 10x90, 10x125, 10x125 (should do 135 next time)

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I can’t help but notice most of your sets are hitting the same reps for the same weight in both sets.

Are you sure you can’t squeeze out some more reps on that first set?

Progress, in my experience, has looked like:
Week 1: 12x100, 9x100 (fail)
Week 2: 12x100, 10x100 (fail)
Week 3: 12x100, 11x100 (fail)
Week 4: 12x100, 12x100 (fail)
Week 5: 12x110, 6x110 (fail)

That first set you should be seeing more reps, just stop yourself short of failure if you’re already at 12 on first set; save failure for the second set.

@Andrewgen_Receptors Its a simple explanation.

Now that I re-read our conversation from earlier, it looks like I misremembered 6-12 as 6-8 so that’s why that looks like that. I’m currently trying to find my working set starting weight, gradually increasing to avoid injury. Once I find that weight, there will be more obvious failure. Also now that I realize 12 should be my top end, instead of 8, you should see failure more.

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Bench 12x155, 9x155
Incline - 12x115, 13x115
DB bench 10x55, 10x55
Triceps pushdown - 12x110, 11x110
Crunch 12x160, 12x170

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Bench 12x155, 10x155
Incline - 10x125, 9x125
DB bench - 12x55, 10x55
Triceps pushdown - 8x90, 13x90

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DB RDL - 12x90, 6x90 (grip went)
DB Kroc Row - 12x90, 6x90 (grip went)
Squat Atlantis - 12x115, 12x115
Lat Pull Down - 12x125

Had to leave

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Bench - 12x155, 8x155
Incline - 7x125, 9x125
DB bench - 11x55, 9x55
Triceps push down - 12x90, 13x90
Kroc row - 12x90, 12x90
RDL - 6x90, 6x90
Lat Pull down - 12x125, 13x140
Curl - 12x70, 8x70

Just one of those days. Down on all my chest exercises. Not sure why.

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Squat - 12x117.5, 12x117.5
Leg Press 12x400, 12x400
Leg Curl 11/12x150, 9x150
Seated Calf Raise 12x115, 12x115

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Bench - 12x155, 8x155,
Incline - 7x125, 7x125
DB bench - 12x55, 11x55
Triceps pushdown - 12x100, 7x100
Weighted decline sit-ups - 12x25, 9x25
Lat Pulldown 12x150, 8x150
Bb curl -12 x70, 11x70

Better.

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Hey buddy, how frequently are you actually able to train? Like how many days per week?

I set aside 3 days a week. It’s supposed to be push/pull/legs. The last two weeks we have had ice and flooding so I have only had Thursday and Friday to workout each week. Not ideal.

Why, what are your thoughts?

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So 3x a week is fine, but you’ve got to have some pretty serious intensity going on for that to be productive.

I typically aim for 3-4x a week and I’m training to utter failure. I’m not going to lie, it sucks, but I’m able to handle it at some pretty significant weight. I’m on PPL as well.

Would you be willing to switch to either Full Body, or Upper-Lower/Push-Pull? I think you’ll be able to recover from either, but i would recommend Full Body.

If Push-Pull or Upper-Lower, you can probably manage your current exercises and set volume fine. If Full Body, we might want to workshop some exercises out.

If you’d rather stick to PPL, I’m inclined to say you should add heavy Deadlifts to leg day.

Just suggestions/thoughts. Feel free to disregard them.

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Second this as a good option for 3 days a week, just need sensible exercise selection and good load / volume / intensity balance in the program.

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Kroc Row - 12x95, 12x95
Squat Atlantis - 12x120, 12x120
Leg Press new machine - 12x400, 12x400
Leg curl - 12x150, 11x150
Calf Raises - 12x135, 12x135

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