would kakno or Derek like to respond or give their thoughts?
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[/quote]
Did you know that for a long time those animals where thought to be mathematically impossible?[/quote]
[/quote]
Its because they hop so much that they could not possibly eat enough.
BUT, they have some king of biological spring in their legs which helps them buffer the energy from the down motion and redirect it to the upward jump.
[/quote]
[/quote]
[quote]kakno wrote:
Most doctors have no reason to look at studies. There are organizations that look through more studies than any engineer with a conspiracy book could ever do, with more resources he could ever have and more medical knowledge he could ever have and base their recommendations on that. Reading the recommendations is much more time efficient and it’s easier to get the big picture than reading through hundreds of studies yourself. [/quote]
Oh yeah just like former monsanto corporates being hired on by the FDA
damn those people are definitely out there to help us be healthier.
They are of course more versed in medicine and have access to more resources than anyone. I feel warm and fuzzy inside.
this all sounds like organized religion back when most couldn’t read ^^^ just blindly accepting what they hear…
Do you realize how much research goes on?
Do you realize how much time it would take to read it?
Even a specialist with some of his work time dedicated to research will have trouble keeping up with his very narrow field. Yet you except general practitioners, who are given 15 minutes to read up on, talk to, examine, treat and write charts on each patient, to read individual studies in everything? And change the way they treat patients just because of a few studies? That would be extremely dangerous.
That’s not arrogance.
That’s not stupidity.
It’s being realistic.
Take the medications given in cardiac arrest for instance. The latest research seems to conclude that adrenaline and amiodarone improve short term survival, but not survival to discharge.
That does not mean that I can skip that part and treat the way I want to. I can’t do that without an official “go”. If I did I’d be in trouble, and if someone in America did, they’d probably be sued for millions, lose and have a really hard time finding a new job.
[quote]kakno wrote:
Do you realize how much research goes on?
Do you realize how much time it would take to read it?
Even a specialist with some of his work time dedicated to research will have trouble keeping up with his very narrow field. Yet you except general practitioners, who are given 15 minutes to read up on, talk to, examine, treat and write charts on each patient, to read individual studies in everything? And change the way they treat patients just because of a few studies? That would be extremely dangerous.
That’s not arrogance.
That’s not stupidity.
It’s being realistic.
Take the medications given in cardiac arrest for instance. The latest research seems to conclude that adrenaline and amiodarone improve short term survival, but not survival to discharge.
That does not mean that I can skip that part and treat the way I want to. I can’t do that without an official “go”. If I did I’d be in trouble, and if someone in America did, they’d probably be sued for millions, lose and have a really hard time finding a new job. [/quote]
This is exactly right. I think people are underestimating how much work researchers put in to become leaders in their field.
Not to mention there are usually several competing theories that, considering the existing evidence, are all possible.
I know several of the leading theories of atherosclerosis and I have never heard anybody on a blog, forum or news site that has been able to cover all the major points for any of the theories.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]kakno wrote:
I should have taken Consuls advice.
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
What makes you think the avg doctor in the US looks at studies?[/quote]
Most doctors have no reason to look at studies. There are organizations that look through more studies than any engineer with a conspiracy book could ever do, with more resources he could ever have and more medical knowledge he could ever have and base their recommendations on that. Reading the recommendations is much more time efficient and it’s easier to get the big picture than reading through hundreds of studies yourself.
Doctors at university hospitals keep up with the latest research. Guys who just prescribe penicillin for sore throats don’t really have to.[/quote]
Yeah, government panels with their great resources do a splendid job. You know these are the same guys that run the DMV right?[/quote]
That might explain why I got a mandatory prostate exam last time I renewed my drivers license.
[quote]imhungry wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[/quote]
Did you know that for a long time those animals where thought to be mathematically impossible?[/quote]
[/quote]
Its because they hop so much that they could not possibly eat enough.
BUT, they have some king of biological spring in their legs which helps them buffer the energy from the down motion and redirect it to the upward jump.
[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
So, should I or shouldn’t I be eating my eggs? Assuming I want to “be healthy”, whatever that means.[/quote]
ask 100 doctors 98 will probably say don’t eat whole eggs, that should speak volumes.[/quote]
Yeah, but what’s The Truth?
This is what I believe but can’t prove:
- increased dietary cholesterol can genuinely increase testosterone levels
- eating whole eggs is a good way to increase dietary cholesterol
This is what I don’t know, and what seems disputed:
- increased dietary cholesterol leads to a higher incidence of heart disease
I know it’s “common knowledge” among doctors, due possibly to misinformation; however, just because it’s widespread doesn’t mean it’s right. Also, it seems high-cholesterol diets have seemed to have little relationship to lipid panels from what I’ve read.
Other than actually testing it out over time with my doctor… should I decrease my egg yolk consumption?
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
So, should I or shouldn’t I be eating my eggs? Assuming I want to “be healthy”, whatever that means.[/quote]
ask 100 doctors 98 will probably say don’t eat whole eggs, that should speak volumes.[/quote]
Yeah, but what’s The Truth?
This is what I believe but can’t prove:
- increased dietary cholesterol can genuinely increase testosterone levels
- eating whole eggs is a good way to increase dietary cholesterol
This is what I don’t know, and what seems disputed:
- increased dietary cholesterol leads to a higher incidence of heart disease
I know it’s “common knowledge” among doctors, due possibly to misinformation; however, just because it’s widespread doesn’t mean it’s right. Also, it seems high-cholesterol diets have seemed to have little relationship to lipid panels from what I’ve read.
Other than actually testing it out over time with my doctor… should I decrease my egg yolk consumption?[/quote]
would your ancestors have ever ditched the yolk?
has any animal EVER (that eats animals) feared cholesterol?
[quote]LoRez wrote:
This is what I believe but can’t prove:
- increased dietary cholesterol can genuinely increase testosterone levels
[/quote]
I really doubt number one. For starters, dietary cholesterol has almost no relation to serum cholesterol. If it were that simple all fat Americans would have awesome testosterone levels. Your body can and will synthesize cholesterol from fat, carbs and protein. Statins inhibit an enzyme that catalyses a reaction in the synthesis of cholesterol.
Again, serum, not dietary. There seems to be a correlation, and statins seem to work when given to the right patients.
[quote]
I know it’s “common knowledge” among doctors, due possibly to misinformation; however, just because it’s widespread doesn’t mean it’s right. Also, it seems high-cholesterol diets have seemed to have little relationship to lipid panels from what I’ve read.
Other than actually testing it out over time with my doctor… should I decrease my egg yolk consumption?[/quote]
Probably not. I think almost all doctors recommend a balanced diet and a few hours of exercise a week. If people listened to that, we wouldn’t have these statin threads all the time.
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
So, should I or shouldn’t I be eating my eggs? Assuming I want to “be healthy”, whatever that means.[/quote]
ask 100 doctors 98 will probably say don’t eat whole eggs, that should speak volumes.[/quote]
Yeah, but what’s The Truth?
This is what I believe but can’t prove:
- increased dietary cholesterol can genuinely increase testosterone levels
- eating whole eggs is a good way to increase dietary cholesterol
This is what I don’t know, and what seems disputed:
- increased dietary cholesterol leads to a higher incidence of heart disease
I know it’s “common knowledge” among doctors, due possibly to misinformation; however, just because it’s widespread doesn’t mean it’s right. Also, it seems high-cholesterol diets have seemed to have little relationship to lipid panels from what I’ve read.
Other than actually testing it out over time with my doctor… should I decrease my egg yolk consumption?[/quote]
would your ancestors have ever ditched the yolk?
has any animal EVER (that eats animals) feared cholesterol?
[/quote]
But does any other animal species (besides humans) have doctors? Or use an intelligence-based approach to living a longer, healthier life?
Evolutionarily, it doesn’t really seem to be particularly useful to live longer; just long enough to reproduce a number of times and then die off.
We, as humans, are kind of trying to do something that’s not “natural”, so we’re in somewhat uncharted territory here – at least as far as using the ‘no other species does it’ argument.
–
But I get your point. The above is mostly just arguing for the sake of, well, arguing.
I’ll keep eating my eggs, yolk intact. On a possibly related note, my blood pressure has actually gone down some since I started eating more cholesterol.
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
So, should I or shouldn’t I be eating my eggs? Assuming I want to “be healthy”, whatever that means.[/quote]
ask 100 doctors 98 will probably say don’t eat whole eggs, that should speak volumes.[/quote]
Yeah, but what’s The Truth?
This is what I believe but can’t prove:
- increased dietary cholesterol can genuinely increase testosterone levels
- eating whole eggs is a good way to increase dietary cholesterol
This is what I don’t know, and what seems disputed:
- increased dietary cholesterol leads to a higher incidence of heart disease
I know it’s “common knowledge” among doctors, due possibly to misinformation; however, just because it’s widespread doesn’t mean it’s right. Also, it seems high-cholesterol diets have seemed to have little relationship to lipid panels from what I’ve read.
Other than actually testing it out over time with my doctor… should I decrease my egg yolk consumption?[/quote]
would your ancestors have ever ditched the yolk?
has any animal EVER (that eats animals) feared cholesterol?
[/quote]
Some animals have such a different structure and composition of their lipoproteins that they are effectively immune from heart disease. Only a few strains of mice are able to “naturally” get atherosclerosis (fed a diet containing high fat, cholesterol and choline). Compare that to rabbits who can suffer severe atherosclerosis on a natural diet.
The current transgenic models of atherosclerosis could, arguably, be leading more research into cholesterol and atherosclerosis. The two most common transgenics are the LDL receptor knockout and ApoE knockout. Both produce a fairly severe phenotype that some people say doesn’t represent a normal pathogenesis. Nonetheless, used properly, these mice can greatly inform us of underlying mechanisms.
Outside of standard laboratory animals, I do not think we can definitively say whether carnivorous animals are prone or not to cholesterol induced (or not) atherosclerosis.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
So, should I or shouldn’t I be eating my eggs? Assuming I want to “be healthy”, whatever that means.[/quote]
ask 100 doctors 98 will probably say don’t eat whole eggs, that should speak volumes.[/quote]
Yeah, but what’s The Truth?
This is what I believe but can’t prove:
- increased dietary cholesterol can genuinely increase testosterone levels
[/quote]
I do not believe this to be true.
Individual cells have numerous mechanisms to regulate the amount of ‘active’ cholesterol within themselves. They receive cholesterol from circulating lipoproteins (or engulf the lipoproteins) or they can make cholesterol themselves. Both pathways are independently regulated, so the cell isn’t overloaded with cholesterol. Secondly, they have an intracellular store of cholesterol which is esterified (inactive). The amount of free cholesterol has to be within a narrow range; too little cholesterol and the cell can’t function, too much and the cell dies. The above is the reason why a measure of blood cholesterol (high or low) means squat as far as cellular cholesterol homeostasis goes.
In addition, the production of testosterone from cholesterol is a multi-step, regulated process. If it were true, then couldn’t more cholesterol also equal more cortisol, aldosterone and oestrogens?
[quote]OzyNut wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
Yeah, but what’s The Truth?
This is what I believe but can’t prove:
- increased dietary cholesterol can genuinely increase testosterone levels
[/quote]
I do not believe this to be true.
Individual cells have numerous mechanisms to regulate the amount of ‘active’ cholesterol within themselves. They receive cholesterol from circulating lipoproteins (or engulf the lipoproteins) or they can make cholesterol themselves. Both pathways are independently regulated, so the cell isn’t overloaded with cholesterol. Secondly, they have an intracellular store of cholesterol which is esterified (inactive). The amount of free cholesterol has to be within a narrow range; too little cholesterol and the cell can’t function, too much and the cell dies. The above is the reason why a measure of blood cholesterol (high or low) means squat as far as cellular cholesterol homeostasis goes.
In addition, the production of testosterone from cholesterol is a multi-step, regulated process. If it were true, then couldn’t more cholesterol also equal more cortisol, aldosterone and oestrogens?[/quote]
I would say yes… ?
My very naive theory is that dietary cholesterol + vitamin A + cytochrome P-450 can increase testosterone levels due to effects on the rate limiting enzymes. Retinoic acid synthesized from Vitamin A has been correlated with increased levels of 17b-HSD (or 3b-HSD, can’t remember off the top of my head) and P-450 is used to turn cholesterol into pregnenolone.
But again, this is a very naive understanding. To me, it translates mainly into eat more eggs and liver.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
My very naive theory… [/quote]
Dietary cholesterol has almost no effect on serum cholesterol, so eating more cholesterol will not lead to any of the effects you desire. The concentration of cholesterol in your blood is not what limits test synthesis. The concentrations of test, GnRH and LH are.
If you want significantly more test in your blood, inject test. And since you’re still a beginner, don’t.
[quote]kakno wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
My very naive theory… [/quote]
Dietary cholesterol has almost no effect on serum cholesterol, so eating more cholesterol will not lead to any of the effects you desire. The concentration of cholesterol in your blood is not what limits test synthesis. The concentrations of test, GnRH and LH are.
If you want significantly more test in your blood, inject test. And since you’re still a beginner, don’t.[/quote]
The why does zetia significantly low cholesterol levels (though not rates of heart disease)?
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]kakno wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
My very naive theory… [/quote]
Dietary cholesterol has almost no effect on serum cholesterol, so eating more cholesterol will not lead to any of the effects you desire. The concentration of cholesterol in your blood is not what limits test synthesis. The concentrations of test, GnRH and LH are.
If you want significantly more test in your blood, inject test. And since you’re still a beginner, don’t.[/quote]
The why does zetia significantly low cholesterol levels (though not rates of heart disease)?[/quote]
Several levels of auto-regulation.
[quote]kakno wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
My very naive theory… [/quote]
Dietary cholesterol has almost no effect on serum cholesterol, so eating more cholesterol will not lead to any of the effects you desire. The concentration of cholesterol in your blood is not what limits test synthesis. The concentrations of test, GnRH and LH are.
If you want significantly more test in your blood, inject test. And since you’re still a beginner, don’t.[/quote]
Hey, you’ve got to give me some credit for admitting it 
Obviously (?) injecting test is the best route if that’s what I’m after… I was really just trying to hedge my bets by approaching it from a diet standpoint. Either way, eggs and liver is a good protein and B-vitamin source.
But serious question: If dietary cholesterol has almost no effect on serum cholesterol, what happens to it? Where does it go? Really only three things can happen to it: it’s broken down, stored somewhere, or excreted… right?
If dietary cholesterol was quickly transformed into pregnenalone after absorption, I wouldn’t expect there to be much effect on serum cholesterol, since it has no need to hang out in the bloodstream.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]kakno wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
My very naive theory… [/quote]
Dietary cholesterol has almost no effect on serum cholesterol, so eating more cholesterol will not lead to any of the effects you desire. The concentration of cholesterol in your blood is not what limits test synthesis. The concentrations of test, GnRH and LH are.
If you want significantly more test in your blood, inject test. And since you’re still a beginner, don’t.[/quote]
Hey, you’ve got to give me some credit for admitting it
Obviously (?) injecting test is the best route if that’s what I’m after… I was really just trying to hedge my bets by approaching it from a diet standpoint. Either way, eggs and liver is a good protein and B-vitamin source.
But serious question: If dietary cholesterol has almost no effect on serum cholesterol, what happens to it? Where does it go? Really only three things can happen to it: it’s broken down, stored somewhere, or excreted… right?
If dietary cholesterol was quickly transformed into pregnenalone after absorption, I wouldn’t expect there to be much effect on serum cholesterol, since it has no need to hang out in the bloodstream.[/quote]
Some goes straight through, some goes to the liver. If a lot goes to the liver, the liver doesn’t have to produce as much on its own. If nothing goes to the liver, it will have to produce more. Some is metabolized to bile or roidz.