[quote]HunterKiller wrote:
Dont use knee wraps! [/quote]
WHY?
[quote]
Dont use knee wraps!
WHY?[/quote]
By the way, I also dislike knee wraps. If you come to visit me, please leave your gloves and wraps in the bag. Knee wraps aren’t a knee injury prevention device; they’re an elastic aid to move more weight. In addition, they magnify the fulcrum effect that Klein and Allman describe.
-Mike Boyle
http://www.T-Nation.com/article/performance_training/6_things_i_really_dislike
I was referring to info I read in a Mike Boyle article, linked above. Just reread my post, and I left the impression that I personally read the study. I did not, just read the article Boyle wrote here citing said study. Article was ‘6 things I really dislike’, I believe.
I have been looking at the powerlifting pictures in the performance and physique photos and everyone that was squatting had their knees wrapped. I know that the weight was heavy but wouldn’t that have a greater effect on the fulcrum ? (more pressure ?)
[quote]Shane krausman wrote:
mopar_nocar wrote:
Shane krausman wrote:
Not a good idea to go beyond parrallel like said above.
Not what he said. Paralell to what?
The point where damage would occur is when the hamstring and calf actually meet and spread the knee like a fulcrum. The LEAST stable knee angle is 90 degrees. Full ROM is desirable, keeping your hamstrings tight and rebounding out of the bottom. This is not boucing your hammies against your calves.
The only acceptable depth is squatting to hips lower than knees.
sb
thats exactly what i meant i could have sworn it was mentioned in different words though and i meant thigh parrallel to the ground which would be 90 degrees… Ive always heard going beyond 90 degrees causes damage. Is this not right?
[/quote]
No. Squat deep but not so deep your hamstrings touch your calves. Go past parallel and past 90 degrees.
[quote]Ramo wrote:
…
Squat as low as you can. The lower the better. If you’re a powerlifter learn to squat to the depth you need for your fed and no further. For anyone else, you should be doing full squats, which means but resting on calves at the bottom. It will not ‘pry your knees apart’ or anything. Your knee joint is unloaded at the bottom, it’s a lot safer on your knees than a powerlifting squat.
…[/quote]
Maybe guys with huge legs can get away with hamstring to calf but it causes me knee pain.
[quote]patrick12 wrote:
I have been looking at the powerlifting pictures in the performance and physique photos and everyone that was squatting had their knees wrapped. I know that the weight was heavy but wouldn’t that have a greater effect on the fulcrum ? (more pressure ?)[/quote]
Yes it would add pressure (well possibly), but think about it, you were looking at powerlifting pictures. The goal of powerlifting isn’t to save your joints but to lift the most weight.
My knees hurt like a bitch after my squat day yesterday, however I have had bad knees since I was a pitcher in baseball (aka long time ago).
I can’t even think of using wraps except on my heaviest sets. Those things don’t feel so good, plus are a pain to wrap correctly after every set!
[quote]CrewPierce wrote:
patrick12 wrote:
I have been looking at the powerlifting pictures in the performance and physique photos and everyone that was squatting had their knees wrapped. I know that the weight was heavy but wouldn’t that have a greater effect on the fulcrum ? (more pressure ?)
Yes it would add pressure (well possibly), but think about it, you were looking at powerlifting pictures. The goal of powerlifting isn’t to save your joints but to lift the most weight.
My knees hurt like a bitch after my squat day yesterday, however I have had bad knees since I was a pitcher in baseball (aka long time ago).
I can’t even think of using wraps except on my heaviest sets. Those things don’t feel so good, plus are a pain to wrap correctly after every set![/quote]
Try neoprene sleeves. They don’t give you a bounce and help you lift more weight like wraps, they just make your knees feel good.
When I forget mine my knee aches for days after squatting.
^^I agree, I love the way my Tommy Kono sleeves feel
If your knees go past your toes or they buckle inward while doing heavy squats, then yes they are harmful. As with any lift, improper technique will take its toll on your joints sooner or later. The best way to avoid potential knee damage from squats is to do deep squats. Your thighs should go past parallel with the floor when you do deep squats.
yeah neoprene sleeves are nice to keep your joints warm, which keeps muscles loose and allows more blood to flow to the joint.
Rehband are by far the best (probably the most expensive as well), they are great for powerlifters as they allow you to warm up and stay warmed up all the way through your workout, even when you have those 5 minutes between sets.
so the consensus is that ass to grass squats are dangerous… i thought id read several articles on here that said otherwise…and said to try to get as deep as possible…
its what i do and i dont have knee problems
OK, I think that I will do full squats (heavy) with neoprene sleeves instead of wraps.
since when is knees over toes dangerous? Not allowing your ankles to flex is dangerous to the knee joint! Your promoting inflexibility!
and look @ how all people in china or third world countries w/o chairs squat! Looks ass to grass to me!
deeper is better.
[quote]patrick12 wrote:
I have been looking at the powerlifting pictures in the performance and physique photos and everyone that was squatting had their knees wrapped. I know that the weight was heavy but wouldn’t that have a greater effect on the fulcrum ? (more pressure ?)[/quote]
Powerlifters don’t squat ass-to-calves so its not really an issue. No fulcrum.
[quote]HotCarl28 wrote:
so the consensus is that ass to grass squats are dangerous… [/quote]
No the consensus is the exact opposite. They are good for the majority of people. They are dangerous only in certain circumstances or if done improperly like most idiots out there.
To the original poster–rock out with the full squats. Knee sleeves are good for joint warmth, knee wraps not good unless you’re a comp. powerlifter.
Also, if full squats were bad, then you would see a vast majority of the olympic lifters with bad knees. That is not what we see–they by and large have excellent knees and their toes go past their knees, as well as going well below parallel. The most common injuries are elbow and shoulder injuries from misses/traumatic accidents/repetitive strain, not knee injuries.
To repeat Dan John–it’s not the exercise that’s bad, it’s the way people do it (improperly).
To paraphrase something in that Mike Boyle article: not allowing the knees to pass the toes because it’s dangerous suggests that one guy with size 12 feet and one guy with size 8 feet, who are otherwise physically identical, can squat to the same depth and thus have the same angle at the knee, but for some imaginary reason it’s only bad for the guy who has size 8 feet because his knees pass his toes. It makes no sense.
- Squat as low as you can whilst maintaining a tight arch.
- Wear knee sleeves if you want to keep them warm (I do, because I’m getting old). Use linament too if you want some extra heat.
- Ice your knees afterwards if you feel the need.
- Don’t neglect hamstring work - knee pain from weak or tight hamstrings is not uncommon.
- Work on your ankle mobility.
[quote]romanaz wrote:
since when is knees over toes dangerous? Not allowing your ankles to flex is dangerous to the knee joint! Your promoting inflexibility!
and look @ how all people in china or third world countries w/o chairs squat! Looks ass to grass to me!
deeper is better. [/quote]
You should be pushing your ass back when you squat. If your knees move out past your toes, a shearing force is created, which places great stress on the meniscus, patellar ligament, and ACL. All of my professors, athletic trainers, and doctors have told me this. Every one of these people have a Ph.D in exercise science, athletic training, or exercise physiology. If you don’t believe me, wait until you are sixty years old and tell me how your knees and ankles feel from all those years of squatting with poor technique.