Oh, come on. I’m just saying that the statistics that you provided don’t conclusively prove anything. There are lots of weightlifters with world class squats, and they all squat high bar. But many who do compete in powerlifting (Max Aita for example) switch to low bar because they can lift a few more pounds and can grind out lifts that would have otherwise folded them over. It’s not a black and white argument, if someone can squat more high bar then there is no reason to stop them.
Maybe 40 lifters is not enough to conclusively prove anything?
By the way, I’m not trying to argue against high bar squats at all. I actually squatted high bar at a meet last year, I was having issues with depth in training (I compete in an IPF-affiliated fed) but I had been doing lots of SSB and close stance high bar squats in training. I decided to give high bar (with a not-so-close stance) a shot and surprisingly it was on par with my low bar squat, and I had no problem hitting depth. Currently I’m squatting low bar again, I have adjusted my technique and it seems to give me a few pounds over low bar plus the ability to grind out lifts that I would likely fail high bar. I’m not totally sold on one over the other for myself, but the widely accepted opinion is that low bar allows you to lift more weight. It could be wrong, it’s up to everyone to figure out what works best for them. If you are bombing out on squat depth then you would do better to squat a bit less high bar, right?
Indeed it does not really prove anything. Was just something I found interesting considering the (probable) fact that most people squat more low bar. As you said, in the end it does not really matter how do most people get the most weight out of their squat since one can’t really know if he’s one of the “most-group” or the odd one out that nails it with high bar. It’s something to consider though, when figuring out what works for you.
I’m just getting my shoulder in full working condition so I recon I’m gonna have to wait a few weeks until I start experimenting with low bar. As it should be bit tougher on the shoulders.
Yeah, low bar can cause arm pain too. There are a lot of lifters that mostly squat high bar until they are prepping for a meet, not only will that reduce arm pain but it has also been argued that the high bar squat is better at building strength than low bar, while low bar is better for displaying strength. I don’t have an opinion on that, but it works for some guys.
I’m thinking of dropping low bar squats for a bit after my next meet (in 2 months). I made some good progress a few months ago squatting 4-5 days a week, but the arm pain was torture. Two days a week were low bar. I’m still making progress squatting twice a week right now, but it’s slower and still get some minor arm pain. It’s not really a major transition to switch to low bar from high bar, it should only take a couple of weeks to sort out your technique.
Just parroting Rippetoe here, but the argument from the SS camp is that low bar squats activate the largest number of muscles over the longest range of motion so they are most effective at developing overall strength.
That might be true, I have no evidence either way. However, there are not a lot of people who aren’t powerlifters that squat low bar and it doesn’t seem to be an issue. Also, there seems to be an assumption amongst some people that a high bar and low bar squat are drastically different movements. They don’t have to be, and for most raw lifters they are not. It will be a different story if you squat like one of those multiply guys with a super wide stance. With a similar stance the only real difference is that there will be slightly more forward lean on a low bar squat, which will transfer more of the load to the glutes and hamstrings.
Post some more videos next squat session.
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Just to add to this.
It’s quite possible to do a westside style box squat with the high bar position with the shins perpendicular to the ground the whole time, very wide stance, and sitting way back. In fact, this is one of my favorite assistance exercises. I’ll even take it a step further and put the bar higher up with the manta ray.
It’s also possible to do a more Oly style squat with the low bar position. Where you fight to stay as upright as possible and go as low as mobility will allow while letting the knees drift far over the feet wearing oly shoes.
What low bar does, is that it puts the bar further back closer to the hips which decreases the lever arm. The disadvantage is the greater lean which means the lower back has to work harder. Granted, with high bar squat the upper back works harder.
Personally, I gained about 10% immediately upon switching to low bar. I was reluctant for awhile due to comfort and mobility issues, but after a few weeks of working on mobility to get under the bar, and learning some tricks lick going thumbless and backing my hands a bit off the bar, I got it down. I’d recommend at least trying it.
I found that my weights on the SSB (which tends to mimic high bar) and low bar are somewhat similar though I can grind out a bit more weight with the low bar.
Stance seems to make more difference.
I switched from a wide stance that a lot of geared lifters use, to a medium stance and my weights jumped up. This is my PR from last year, would you guys consider this medium stance?
To the OP, I’d recommend experimenting and keep an open mind. You seem to be doing a narrow stance, high bar, quad dominated squat that is popular in the oly crowd. But many in the powerlifting world use a wider stance and focus on getting the posterior chain involved by sitting back.
Louis Simmons has commented that using wider stance, butt back and keeping you shins more vertical (not so much knee flexion) helps preserve your knees over the long haul for a long lifting career.
When I came into this sport 3 years ago, it was with bad knees (torn ACL and medial meniscus due to motox wreck). Lifting in this style has prevented them from getting any worse, and I’m 48.
Just tried low baring today while doing some paused squats. Felt really good to be honest and after I tried high bar after a few reps of low bar, the high bar felt kinda unstable and awkward (arm and shoulder position not included).
Only thing holding me back was the small discomfort on my shoulder which I have had issues with lately.
