Love the updates, keep 'em coming and keep up the hard work.
OKay,… so I took an entire week off from training, and basically ate way too much, and way too infrequently (I’m sure the time difference messed me up a bit as I slept a hell of a lot more than I usually do!). My back felt a lot better, but oddly, my left elbow (which had required a cortizone shot at the beginning of my Spring '10 prep) was still aching quite a bit. I kept up my Flameout and Curcumin 500 all week, and hoped that my body would actually heal a bit from the constant pounding of heavy weights.
Today, I went to the gym to do chest and calves, and tried to ease into things (still feeling very strong, despite needing a bit more of a warm up, ramping my weights up in smaller increments). During my last exercise for chest though, after several fairly heavy sets, I felt q very severe and pinpoint pain in my left elbow, and rather than deciding to back off, or push through it, I just acknowledged that I was done for the day (at least for chest, I still hit my calves).
I spoke to my brother afterward, and discussed addressing this issue, and my contest plans. He mentioned possibly getting surgery and “debriding” it (I had never heard the term). I wasn’t too thrilled with his explanation of “ONLY” an 8 week recovery. He described it as a “clean up job”, but stressed that it’s only a possible option, not an ONLY option (google Topaz Debridement Elbow Surgery, pretty cool stuff!).
We also talked about PRP studies, and what my friend Steve called “Prolotherapy”, in which you actually create more of an inflammation response in the injured area (usually connective tissue), and the body will resultingly speed up its natural healing process to ligaments, tendons and cartilage, areas with a usually poor blood supply (hence incomplete healing to some injuries). I searched online and found some people dismissing the process, and others claiming great results, with little to no actual down time. We’ll have to see how bad things look.
I’ve already considered how I’d be able to train around my elbow should I actually require any form of surgery,… so far, I’ve only had issues with pressing motions, so I’d still be able to hammer my legs, back, possibly bis, but chest and delts would have to be all cables/pec deck and lateral/raises, and triceps may be completely out of the question.
At the moment, this issue (and how it affects my training) looks to be the deciding factor as to whether I will push for the INBF Worlds in November, or hold off until next Spring. A reminder, I’m 37 years old, so 17 years of pounding is sure to have had some effect on my joints, and as smart as I try to be with my training and diet/supplementation, the human body is prone to wear and tear no matter how smart you are.
S
I guess the good part of the injury is that it is your elbow, as any work done in your shoulder would carry with it a much longer recovery time. I work in medical technology and specialize in sports medicine (spending most of my time in the OR) so I’ve gotten to see the broad spectrum of treatments and doctors.
By far the most important choice is the right doctor, as the goods ones are like artists and the bad ones are like monkeys with power tools. You must also realize that orthopods specialize in certain operations, even though they might not like to admit it. I know surgeons that are great with ACL recons and knees, but should never be allowed to tough a shoulder. Make sure you find a doctor that is both a great ortho and known for working on what you will be getting repaired.
Second opinions are always a great idea, and are a must unless financial restraints make that unachievable.
Also, if you do decide to use PRP, make sure your getting the highest grade. Lower quality PRPs are actually mislabeled, and utilize portions of your blood that are of inferior quality, thus almost negating their benefits. Personally, it is fairly pricey and the research that I have seen is pretty inconclusive, but that choice is up to you.
Here’s a bit of an update… so I ended up basically getting stranded out on Long Island for this past week (car issues), which allowed me to go in to my brothers office a few times, and have him work on my arm.
He administered some Active Release (very painful but amazing in case you’ve never tried it), and commented that the muscles in my forearm (of the injured arm) were a mess, and could possibly be preventing the inflamed area for healing (or even be part of the cause).
I got some muscle stim, some ice, and even some prescription level ion based anti-inflam ointment which was deep massaged into the afflicted area and then a current was sent through in order to have it actually absorb into the connective tissue (I’m sure my brother would scream that I’m describing this all incorrectly, but you get the idea -lol).
I did train all through the week, but was careful on pressing movements (still surprisingly strong though), and avoided anything that would put an excessive stretch on the triceps (did rope pressdowns and bench dips, but no skull crushers).
Despite my little ‘issue’, I feel like I’ve gotten great training sessions this past week, and am eating as if my body needs food to heal (and trying to get a bit more sleep than I usually would). I’m keeping up with all my supps (bumped up my flameouts a bit), and actually feel pretty damn good. The plan is to keep dropping by my brother’s office as much as I can for the next couple of weeks, concurrently with my training and see how things progress.
Contest wise, I believe I’ve decided to focus on a Spring show instead of the November Worlds, simply so that I don’t have any looming deadline in the back of my mind while I try to make progress around an injury.
Also, After emailing back and forth with Mod Brian a bit, I’ve decided to try throwing ReceptorMaxx into my supplement mix, hopefully to take advantage of the nutrient partitioning effects, and put on more quality LBM while minimizing potential gain of adipose tissue.
On a side note, I’m sure I mentioned before that my brother works with a lot of high level athletes. The joke a few years back was that half of his clientele was on the Mitchel Report. Well, unlike both of my brothers, I know absolutely nothing about sports.
I’m trained as an artist, and to me, bodybuilding is sort of the culmination of sculpting, and being an obsessive fan of super hero comic books. Well, this past Wednesday, I’m on a table in my brother’s office, electrodes stuck to my arm, a huge ice pack on top of the set-up, and I’m just making chit chat with a few other folks who are there for various ailments. Most people pick up on the fact that I look a bit like the ‘Doc’, and inquire about that.
Anyway, as one guy gets up from his seat, and while returning several ice packs that were placed about his body, jokes around a bit with my bro, then heads out. My brother comes over and asks me if I knew who that guy who just left was. Of course I didn’t, but true to my meathead nature, I felt obligated to express my pity over his lacking calf development. Turns out the guy was Jose Delgado, and my brother was nice enough to give me his full bio -lol.
At this point, my brother just shakes his head sadly at how uninformed his “pro athlete” of an older brother truly is.
S
Don’t feel too bad Stu, I have no idea who Jose Delgado is.
Carlos Delgado?
[quote]hit the gym wrote:
Carlos Delgado?[/quote]
LMAO man, I’m so uninformed about sports! -lol
S
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]hit the gym wrote:
Carlos Delgado?[/quote]
LMAO man, I’m so uninformed about sports! -lol
S[/quote]
If it doesn’t involve half naked men oiled up and posing on stage its not a sport right Stu? =P
Hey Stu. Im trying to gain right now and putting a little too much around the gut. I am a biology major and have a professor thats deeply into bodybuilding the guy is like 230 fairly lean in his mid 40’s. He told me one thing he does whether gaining or losing weight is not have carbs for breakfast. His rational was that high cortisol levels peak in the morning so it would be a bad time to spike insulin (the storing nutrient), he quoted several studies that show how a protein and fat breakfast promoted fat loss and blunted metabolic syndrome. Is this something you experienced with or would advise?
Hey Stu, don’t mean to hijack. But would you mind PMing me an email address I can reach you at? I’d like to run something by you if you don’t mind.
[quote]Elite0423 wrote:
Hey Stu. Im trying to gain right now and putting a little too much around the gut. I am a biology major and have a professor thats deeply into bodybuilding the guy is like 230 fairly lean in his mid 40’s. He told me one thing he does whether gaining or losing weight is not have carbs for breakfast. His rational was that high cortisol levels peak in the morning so it would be a bad time to spike insulin (the storing nutrient), he quoted several studies that show how a protein and fat breakfast promoted fat loss and blunted metabolic syndrome. Is this something you experienced with or would advise?[/quote]
OKay,… Insulin is one of those can be good/can be bad hormones. It can be what tells your body to store fat, or it can be what tells your body to store nutrients and build muscle (gross simplification, but work with me here -lol). There are times when you do not want high insulin levels (as they will promote fat storage), and there are times when you do (to counteract high cortisol levels POST training, and Upon Waking in the morning!). It really all comes down to timing.
At certain times of the day, your body will be best prepared to make gains from higher insulin levels (and other times,… not so much). The two most important times are first thing in the morning (your cortisol levels are high because you’ve been starving all night, and that’s a pretty stressful situation for your body), and right after your workouts (again, stressful situation).
The idea that you should worry about keeping your insulin in accordance with your cortisol is something I’ve never heard any competitor (or knowledgeable coach) speak of. It’s usually an approach of using an insulin spike (created by the food you ingest) to counteract the high cortisol levels. EVen when I’m dieting for a contest, and I’m closing in on low single digit bodyfat levels, I STILL create insulin spikes at certain points throughout the day to PREVENT high cortisol levels (which will basically eat your muscle tissue). Having elevated cortisol for prolonged periods of time will lead to nothing but catabolism (who cares about burning a little bit of fat if you also burn A LOT of MUSCLE?!)
Am I going to disagree with your professor? of course not, most professors teach out of outdated books and do not actually deal with any real world advice anyway (I taught college myself for a while, so I can tell you firsthand). And besides, if this were true, then why are 99.9% of the successful athletes and bodybuilders out there eating macros (carbs) for breakfast that intentionally spike insulin?
(and you can find studies that support any argument, I know, I’ve read more than my share! -lol)
So I guess the answer is… No, I wouldn’t advise what your professor is suggesting at all, I think it’s a horrible idea for anyone seeking extreme levels of musculature and low levels of bodyfat.
S
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]Elite0423 wrote:
Hey Stu. Im trying to gain right now and putting a little too much around the gut. I am a biology major and have a professor thats deeply into bodybuilding the guy is like 230 fairly lean in his mid 40’s. He told me one thing he does whether gaining or losing weight is not have carbs for breakfast. His rational was that high cortisol levels peak in the morning so it would be a bad time to spike insulin (the storing nutrient), he quoted several studies that show how a protein and fat breakfast promoted fat loss and blunted metabolic syndrome. Is this something you experienced with or would advise?[/quote]
OKay,… Insulin is one of those can be good/can be bad hormones. It can be what tells your body to store fat, or it can be what tells your body to store nutrients and build muscle (gross simplification, but work with me here -lol). There are times when you do not want high insulin levels (as they will promote fat storage), and there are times when you do (to counteract high cortisol levels POST training, and Upon Waking in the morning!). It really all comes down to timing.
At certain times of the day, your body will be best prepared to make gains from higher insulin levels (and other times,… not so much). The two most important times are first thing in the morning (your cortisol levels are high because you’ve been starving all night, and that’s a pretty stressful situation for your body), and right after your workouts (again, stressful situation).
The idea that you should worry about keeping your insulin in accordance with your cortisol is something I’ve never heard any competitor (or knowledgeable coach) speak of. It’s usually an approach of using an insulin spike (created by the food you ingest) to counteract the high cortisol levels. EVen when I’m dieting for a contest, and I’m closing in on low single digit bodyfat levels, I STILL create insulin spikes at certain points throughout the day to PREVENT high cortisol levels (which will basically eat your muscle tissue). Having elevated cortisol for prolonged periods of time will lead to nothing but catabolism (who cares about burning a little bit of fat if you also burn A LOT of MUSCLE?!)
Am I going to disagree with your professor? of course not, most professors teach out of outdated books and do not actually deal with any real world advice anyway (I taught college myself for a while, so I can tell you firsthand). And besides, if this were true, then why are 99.9% of the successful athletes and bodybuilders out there eating macros (carbs) for breakfast that intentionally spike insulin?
(and you can find studies that support any argument, I know, I’ve read more than my share! -lol)
So I guess the answer is… No, I wouldn’t advise what your professor is suggesting at all, I think it’s a horrible idea for anyone seeking extreme levels of musculature and low levels of bodyfat.
S
[/quote]
Thanks Stu, I appreciate the response. I guess him being big struck a cord with me. Good to know I can resort to means such as this instead of ask some dude at the gym and get a response like “yo i have a banana and coffee for breakfast, bananas get you jacked !” So oatmeal and eggs for breakfast as usual !
[quote]Elite0423 wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]Elite0423 wrote:
Hey Stu. Im trying to gain right now and putting a little too much around the gut. I am a biology major and have a professor thats deeply into bodybuilding the guy is like 230 fairly lean in his mid 40’s. He told me one thing he does whether gaining or losing weight is not have carbs for breakfast. His rational was that high cortisol levels peak in the morning so it would be a bad time to spike insulin (the storing nutrient), he quoted several studies that show how a protein and fat breakfast promoted fat loss and blunted metabolic syndrome. Is this something you experienced with or would advise?[/quote]
OKay,… Insulin is one of those can be good/can be bad hormones. It can be what tells your body to store fat, or it can be what tells your body to store nutrients and build muscle (gross simplification, but work with me here -lol). There are times when you do not want high insulin levels (as they will promote fat storage), and there are times when you do (to counteract high cortisol levels POST training, and Upon Waking in the morning!). It really all comes down to timing.
At certain times of the day, your body will be best prepared to make gains from higher insulin levels (and other times,… not so much). The two most important times are first thing in the morning (your cortisol levels are high because you’ve been starving all night, and that’s a pretty stressful situation for your body), and right after your workouts (again, stressful situation).
The idea that you should worry about keeping your insulin in accordance with your cortisol is something I’ve never heard any competitor (or knowledgeable coach) speak of. It’s usually an approach of using an insulin spike (created by the food you ingest) to counteract the high cortisol levels. EVen when I’m dieting for a contest, and I’m closing in on low single digit bodyfat levels, I STILL create insulin spikes at certain points throughout the day to PREVENT high cortisol levels (which will basically eat your muscle tissue). Having elevated cortisol for prolonged periods of time will lead to nothing but catabolism (who cares about burning a little bit of fat if you also burn A LOT of MUSCLE?!)
Am I going to disagree with your professor? of course not, most professors teach out of outdated books and do not actually deal with any real world advice anyway (I taught college myself for a while, so I can tell you firsthand). And besides, if this were true, then why are 99.9% of the successful athletes and bodybuilders out there eating macros (carbs) for breakfast that intentionally spike insulin?
(and you can find studies that support any argument, I know, I’ve read more than my share! -lol)
So I guess the answer is… No, I wouldn’t advise what your professor is suggesting at all, I think it’s a horrible idea for anyone seeking extreme levels of musculature and low levels of bodyfat.
S
[/quote]
Thanks Stu, I appreciate the response. I guess him being big struck a cord with me. Good to know I can resort to means such as this instead of ask some dude at the gym and get a response like “yo i have a banana and coffee for breakfast, bananas get you jacked !” So oatmeal and eggs for breakfast as usual ![/quote]
I would suggest reading some of Lonnie Lowery’s stuff on here to get even more of a detailed response on carb timing. I know Stu follows the same line of thinking as LL
Definitely read Lowery’s stuff. Not too many folks in the bodybuilding community who have the education credentials as well as the gym credentials (the guy really walks the walk). Got a bunch of his articles in my collection (along with those from CT, Berardi, Poliquin, and Aceto… a few of my favs).
Little update on my arm,… it seems that the joint pain, at least where it was really localized initially is doing better, although the forearm (radiobracchialis -sp?!) has been a bit swollen, and the overall elbow area still feels generally ‘tight’ (cracks whenever I extend my arm).
I’m trying to avoid heavy pressing when it’s acting up, and am thinking that I may have to forgo all pressing movements for a few weeks until this sorts itself out (still getting PT 3-4x a week while I can). I’ve had issues in the past (usually shoulder related) where I couldn’t do pressing work for a while, and was only able to do pec deck for chest and laterals and raises for delts. If I have to, I guess I could resort to the same approach. I’m just glad that this waited until after my May 2010 win -lol.
S
[quote]Elite0423 wrote:
Good to know I can resort to means such as this instead of ask some dude at the gym and get a response like “yo i have a banana and coffee for breakfast, bananas get you jacked !” ![/quote]
True story. At the gym yesterday, this guy told me he’s been having a banana and a beer for lunch the last few weeks. I told him he won’t do shit on a banana and beer.
15 minutes later - he walks up to me (6’1", 200lbs, roughly 15%) and says “damn, i’m gettin big huh!”
15 minutes later - walking around with his shirt up over his stomach, he asks me what he has to do to lose “the last few pounds”
ok… latest update… the original spot of my pain is completely fine, but the opposite side of the arm (specifically the very tip of the bone by my elbow joint) aches quite a bit when I hit the extension point of any sort of pressing movement. I have found that doing all DB work (with a focus on the bottom portion of the ROM, and not having to rereack the weight as I would with a barbell), doesn’t irritate it. The thinking now is that it may simply be a case of bursitis based on the locale, Soooooo I’m going to keep my Chest work to all limited ROM DB work and cables, and avoid regular shoulder presses (oddly enough, reverse shoulder presses didn’t bother me). Hopefully this adjustment along with continued PT over the next few weeks will clear things up. I hope I hope I hope. Nothing is as annoying as a recurring injury (or injuries in an area that has been an issue before). I had had such plans for my training this summer. Still, I know I’ve said this before, but I’m glad this held off until after my Spring 2010 Prep. Now I can at least rest on my laurels a bit while I heal -lol.
S
Hey Stu-
I have the exact same elbow pain and I am assuming its olecranon bursitis as well. It has been one of the nagging things that never seem to fully go away. Outside of elbow sleeves, the best thing I have done was suggested from BBB. I am not sure if you caught it (I am not sure where he posted it) but he spoke of keeping it covered and warm at night. I have had a lot of success with just wrapping it with an ace wrap at night since I usually don’t keep my arm covered and I really feel the increased warmth has helped with blood flow and I am not being bothered nearly as badly.
[quote]ajweins wrote:
Hey Stu-
I have the exact same elbow pain and I am assuming its olecranon bursitis as well. It has been one of the nagging things that never seem to fully go away. Outside of elbow sleeves, the best thing I have done was suggested from BBB. I am not sure if you caught it (I am not sure where he posted it) but he spoke of keeping it covered and warm at night. I have had a lot of success with just wrapping it with an ace wrap at night since I usually don’t keep my arm covered and I really feel the increased warmth has helped with blood flow and I am not being bothered nearly as badly. [/quote]
Yeah, that’s exactly what we’ve settled on for my diagnosis (of course I also had some knost in my RadioBrach, so we’ve been hitting that with some active release every session, and it’s doing a lot better). I actually just walked in from a chest session, and while I certainly didn’t push myself too hard today, I was able to do some semblance of a decent workout (low inc and flat DB presses and low inc and flat cable flyes), just so long as I limited my ROM, and really milked the negative portion of the movements. I’ll have to wait a few days to see if the same approach holds true for shoulder work, but right now, even though I’ve got my elbow on ice, I’m feeling pretty good. Amazing how this thread seems to have turned into my injury update the last few weeks -lol. I had so hoped it would detail my assault on the 2010 INBF Worlds 
S
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]ajweins wrote:
Hey Stu-
I have the exact same elbow pain and I am assuming its olecranon bursitis as well. It has been one of the nagging things that never seem to fully go away. Outside of elbow sleeves, the best thing I have done was suggested from BBB. I am not sure if you caught it (I am not sure where he posted it) but he spoke of keeping it covered and warm at night. I have had a lot of success with just wrapping it with an ace wrap at night since I usually don’t keep my arm covered and I really feel the increased warmth has helped with blood flow and I am not being bothered nearly as badly. [/quote]
Yeah, that’s exactly what we’ve settled on for my diagnosis (of course I also had some knost in my RadioBrach, so we’ve been hitting that with some active release every session, and it’s doing a lot better). I actually just walked in from a chest session, and while I certainly didn’t push myself too hard today, I was able to do some semblance of a decent workout (low inc and flat DB presses and low inc and flat cable flyes), just so long as I limited my ROM, and really milked the negative portion of the movements. I’ll have to wait a few days to see if the same approach holds true for shoulder work, but right now, even though I’ve got my elbow on ice, I’m feeling pretty good. Amazing how this thread seems to have turned into my injury update the last few weeks -lol. I had so hoped it would detail my assault on the 2010 INBF Worlds
S[/quote]
This is the reality of training Stu, You can never follow an Ideal rutine for very long before life forces us to adapt. Its good to see for people who are suffering similar setbacks how you are working around it. I am currently having to dial things back because of several niggles related to playing rugby.
Thanks again
Wow,… so last night and tonight I was actually able to do what I would consider ‘normal’ workouts for me (basically, not training around any injuries). Sure, I held back just a bit as far as weight and my usual ‘Crush it!’ attitude when I approached each set, but my exercise selection worked perfectly,… I was able to do a normal bicep routine (not worrying about the lateral epicondylitis), and tonight I even did some damn heavy shoulder presses as well as DB incline skull crushers (two exercises that had me worried about the excessive strain or stretch on my elbow area - bit of bursitis in there too!)
Gonna keep up with the PT as often as I can, keep the fish oils and curcumin cranked, and keep icing post workout, while I try to slowly ease back into my usual routine (SLOWLY being the important point here, as I’m still not feeling 100%, just didn’t feel limited in any way tonight).
I was reminded earlier of an old piece of advice I read many years ago in a Powerlifting USA magazine… (forgot who said it)… it basically said that if you wait until you’re injury free to compete or try to make gains, the time will never come (or something like that,… you see where I’m going with this -lol)
S