Spidey: Eudaimonia

Training Training Logs
441

So did as I promised, adjusted my Squat to what’s most ‘natural’. Honestly doesn’t look much different, bar is just a bit higher, and legs a big closer, with feet turned slightly more out. While it seems like minor adjustments, just as every girl I’ve been with is sure to point out, a few inches makes a huge difference (sigh) :frowning: … moving on.

Legs Volume

Moderate Squat: While this feels natural, cuing is a bit different, so only went up to 295 for a single, with my belt 2 notches loose. Also did like 2 mins rest with 5x5, as the weight is still very light.
295x1

235x5x5

Franken-Fronts: Falling in love with these. I can feel my hips trying to shoot back with these, but having to come back under the bar. I think a few weeks of these will help a LOT with form. All beltless
165x3x6 (paused)
185x2x5

Split Squats: Just go really slow with these and kind of make the DB’s feel heavier than they are, because I’m not messing with plates and all that with my Oly DB’s
25’x3x10

Then breathing squats, hanging leg raises, and some one-arm hangs

Solid workout, a good deal of volume and really nailing technique. Moderate Squat (idk what else to call it) feels better already, hips feel worked but not wrecked, not elbow pain, etc. Will need to focus on paused work a good deal I think, as i get a LOT of rebound with the closer stance and knees more out.

442

I just watched a bunch of your squat videos. Have you considered performing exclusively paused high bar squats for your squat variation?

I know the load was pretty light last you did them but everything (depth, confidence, speed, knees etc.) looked very good squatting in that fashion. Also, I think it could be a good idea to consider putting the over warm ups on hold for a bit. I think you struggle too much on those reps. My hypothesis is that those ingrain bad form (especially with your knees caving) that appears when you are slightly fatigued from the previous, comparatively smoother reps. The similarity between your last few reps in the moderate squat video and your over warmups is pretty striking. Just a few thoughts.

On another note, your bench looks good and you look considerably leaner

443

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
Goddammit Squats are my new Bench, aka shitty.

Squats: Idk, form looks ‘alright’ but it absolutely feels horrible lol
325x1
305x2x3
245x5x3 (speed)

HB Paused Squats:
200x2x6
185x8 (long pauses)

Deficit DL’s: Going to wear a belt on these because it seems easy to snap my shit up with these
325x2x6

Videoed a few of the lifts. Back Squats, the bar keeps shifting to my right shoulder blade, and it hurts lol. Idk I think I need to look at what others do with Squat. I feel I may need to just work up to a ‘top’ set, as opposed to straight sets, but I’m not sure yet. I’ve just made no Squat progress in the last few months. Yeah I’ve lost a lot of weight, but it’s still disheartening.

I do think I need to widen my grip again. I think I don’t have the mobility or maybe just strength to keep my elbows ‘down’ with a closer hand position. I tried warming up in flats, didn’t feel good. However, have though of using some old hard soled sneakers with a ver slight heel to try and Squat, may help with falling forward. I think I need a heel, but it may be that the adipowers heel is too big for me.
[/quote]

With the squats: The bar shift could be minimised by a shirt and chalk on the shirt (I’ve found the chalk stops ANY bar slip). The pain on the shoulder blade happens, you eventually develop a callus and find the sweet spot. Mine is just above my acromion. I used to bleed through my shirt a little when I started low bar but it toughened up just fine in a short time and its now really comfy.

The whole grip width and elbows down is a funny one. I’ve got the mobility to grip close and keep my elbows down which does help me stay upright BUT it gave me pretty bad tendinitis in my elbows. I had to widen my grip to about where you grip and deliberately keepy my elbows back; but to stay upright that means I have to push my chest up and pinch my scaps together with tight lats. it feels odd the first couple of times but now is way more comfortable, and I’ve found the bar sits more stably this way.

I’d also suggest widening your stance even more if you can, because like you said you’re pretty long limbed. You could also sit back more with that wide stance. It changes how the lift feels, but it may work very well for you (it also may not, you’ll only know by trying). I’ve got short legs but a longer back and that wide stance/sit back suits me nicely, so there’s a possibility your proportions won’t like it as much but I still reckon its worth a try.

With the sets, I’ve found going in six sets of three, three, two, two, one, one at 85, 85, 90, 90, 95, 95% is a good way to get more weight on the bar. I’ve tried going five, five, three, three, one, one starting at 80% going to 90% but that just sucks. I can usually get the first two sets and the last two but the two triples at 90% are horrible and often end up being singles or doubles. Three sets of five, three, one from 80 to 90% seems OK too.

Your form does look alright, but I know what you mean by feels horrible - I used to pitch forward a fair bit and that really isn’t fun. Paused front squats with about 80% of front squat max helped me develop the ability to stay upright, plus they helped by deadlift a fair bit too. They aren’t pleasant to do though.

444

Sam: That’s a good point on the ingraining bad motor patterns. While I’m not as worried about the knee things as others are, I do think I need to be more ‘conservative’ with my over-warm ups. Maybe just 20 lbs over my working sets for the day. I’m hoping the moderate bar position allows me the form consistency I had with paused high bar. I’ve considered going all in and just going with high bar, but honestly anytime I get heavy with it, it becomes a balancing act, just like realllyyy low bar does.

MarkKO: Thanks for stopping by man. I’m honestly thinking of ditching low bar for a bit. Not only does it feel weird, but the wide stance, along with pulling Sumo, has REALLY been wrecking my hips. I like the rep scheme you proposed though, I may try it out this next heavy Squat day. I’m emphasizing some paused high bar and front squats to hopefully remedy the falling forward issues.

445

If it feels weird and wide stance wrecks your hips, ditching both is a sound idea. Got to go with what’s comfortable.

Glad you like the set/rep idea. Its nothing new, but it worked for me.

446

[quote]MarkKO wrote:
If it feels weird and wide stance wrecks your hips, ditching both is a sound idea. Got to go with what’s comfortable.

Glad you like the set/rep idea. Its nothing new, but it worked for me.[/quote]

I think I can handle one of them. Sumo by itself has never given my issues, just when combined with the wider stance Squats. I think, at least for right now, may just be too much stress on my hips.

447

Heavy Pull day today, but wasn’t worth a shit lol.

Warming up Sumo, my grip felt ‘weak’. Like I couldn’t grip as hard as I wanted, it was weird, and when I can’t grip hard, it’s hard to tighten my back. So even 405 felt bad.

Got to a 465 single, it was a absolute shit. Put it on 4 Mats, thinking maybe it was just from the floor and I’d get some more volume off mats. Nope, barely got a single there too.

So just did some SLDL’s and some chins and finished up. I only had about 5 hrs of sleep last night, so maybe that was an issue. Could just be an off workout, could be pulling from mats aka supramaximally for so many weeks means I need to take a bit of a deload with my pulls at least.

448

Also just writing this as a note to myself, I need to start my sumo with the bar about an inch or so off my shins. the bar kept rolling a bit, causing the bar to be right on my shins as soon as I placed my feet. Think it was causing me to round a bit too much.

449

What is your take on the knee issue vs. others?

450

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
Also just writing this as a note to myself, I need to start my sumo with the bar about an inch or so off my shins. the bar kept rolling a bit, causing the bar to be right on my shins as soon as I placed my feet. Think it was causing me to round a bit too much. [/quote]

Don’t you find that pulls you horribly out of position at the start? If I pull sumo and the bar comes even a centimetre away from my shins at any point my leverages go to hell - as opposed to conventional where I need the bar an inch or so off my shins. I guess that’s because for sumo I MUST have my shoulders behind the bar the whole time but for conventional shoulders over the bar or even a tad in front works better for me.

For sumo I drag the bar up my shins at the start - I always get some slight grazing through my socks.

Of course if an inch away works better for you it just works better for you, I’m just trying to picture how it’d work because I’m curious.

451

[quote]MarkKO wrote:

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
Also just writing this as a note to myself, I need to start my sumo with the bar about an inch or so off my shins. the bar kept rolling a bit, causing the bar to be right on my shins as soon as I placed my feet. Think it was causing me to round a bit too much. [/quote]

Don’t you find that pulls you horribly out of position at the start? If I pull sumo and the bar comes even a centimetre away from my shins at any point my leverages go to hell - as opposed to conventional where I need the bar an inch or so off my shins. I guess that’s because for sumo I MUST have my shoulders behind the bar the whole time but for conventional shoulders over the bar or even a tad in front works better for me.

For sumo I drag the bar up my shins at the start - I always get some slight grazing through my socks.

Of course if an inch away works better for you it just works better for you, I’m just trying to picture how it’d work because I’m curious.[/quote]

Well first off I kind of have a ‘semi-sumo’ stance, so that’s likely the culprit. I drag the bar up my shins as well. I think it’s more I have to start with it a bit off my shins, but as I go down, grip it, and tighten up, it pulls everything in position to where then the bar IS right on my shins. So I guess I mean I need to ‘pull’ the bar into position, not start with my feet there and just drop down. For some reason it tweaks my set-up in a weird way.

I think it’s kind of how some people set their feet first with conventional, others set their grip, and while both do the same thing, if you’re used to one, you’ll probably have an issue getting the same tightness/feel doing it the other way.

452

[quote]Samplaysbaseball wrote:
What is your take on the knee issue vs. others? [/quote]

I personally think a Quad dominant raw squatter will likely have some knee cave, and it gets the quads firing out of the hole. And that my issue is torso rigidity and weak hips, while my knees are mostly not an issue.

If you look online you’ll find a ton of arguments going either way, and while I don’t want my knees to ‘buckle’, I’m fine with some inward movement and then them going back out on the way up.

453

Ok. Interesting. Always heard to push your knees out (like the spread the floor cue). I’ve never heard that before about high bar squatting but you’ve clearly put more thought/ time into this issue than I have. You’re also stronger than I am so I’ll defer to you on squatting related matters especially when it’s YOUR SQUATS we’re talking about lol.

454

[quote]Samplaysbaseball wrote:
Ok. Interesting. Always heard to push your knees out (like the spread the floor cue). I’ve never heard that before about high bar squatting but you’ve clearly put more thought/ time into this issue than I have. You’re also stronger than I am so I’ll defer to you on squatting related matters especially when it’s YOUR SQUATS we’re talking about lol. [/quote]

I still spread the floor, it just seems I’m ‘strongest’ when my knees line back up over my toes. Dan Green talks about it. I notice some people don’t do it, some people do, I’m not really sure if it’s a hip thing or a weakness in something, but I’ve just seen people lift a lot of weight both ways.

Here’s Dan discussing it.

455

Ok I see. That makes sense (sort of). Im not sure about Dan Greene’s logic though. Why would you get more speed/ power by pushing out, coming back in to line up with your toes, then pushing back out? Seems like wasted energy. Not going to argue with him though. The dude can squat a house

The thing is that the inward movement of your knee increases throughout your reps in a given set and also as the weight increases which led me to think it was you resorting to bad form while fatigued/ struggling with the weight.

Edit: it could just be your reps get slower so I notice it more. There’s a good chance that’s the case.

456

[quote]Samplaysbaseball wrote:
Ok I see. That makes sense (sort of). Im not sure about Dan Greene’s logic though. Why would you get more speed/ power by pushing out, coming back in to line up with your toes, then pushing back out? Seems like wasted energy. Not going to argue with him though. The dude can squat a house

The thing is that the inward movement of your knee increases throughout your reps in a given set and also as the weight increases which led me to think it was you resorting to bad form while fatigued/ struggling with the weight.

Edit: it could just be your reps get slower so I notice it more. There’s a good chance that’s the case. [/quote]

I think it’s too get past a sticking point, so while it’s ‘technically’ wasted energy, it still works. Like how it’s kind of a longer bar path to press the bar back towards your face on Bench (as opposed to a straight arm), but often times more advantageous position regardless.

The slower reps could be the case, but I do think the knee cave increases as a fatigue. I guess that’s what I’m trying to say but kind of not articulating well. falling forward is what increases with fatigue I think, and too compensate my Quads are having to exert themselves even more in attempt to get the weight up, which is why they come in even more. So, at least from how I feel, it’s the tipping causing the knee cave, not the other way around? Idk I could totally be wrong though haha

457

Ah I see! That sounds like a good way to think of it. Good bench press analogy. Of course it’s the bench press analogy that makes my shoulder hurting self understand hahaha

By the way I think we just fused bro science with biomechanics…Bromechanics!..I kinda like that

458

Bromechanics, I like that. Dibs on website name haha

Hit Bench today

Flat Bench: Felt alright, had a grindyish rep so didn’t push for more than 2 sets
235x1
225x2x3
185x5x4 (speed)

Wide Grip Bench:
185x2x5-6 (Paused)
175x8 (TnG)

Then some triceps and delt stuff.

So I guess I forgot to mention, I kind of thought of a solid auto-regulation thing tactic. It’s super simple, pretty much I always choose a weight I can hit for 2 sets. After that, if I feel good, I keep doing sets, if not, then 2 is enough. Seems like it wouldn’t make a difference, but I think just knowing when to quit is a big part of progressing.

I had my first real cheat day in 20 weeks yesterday. Was great. Asian buffet, Cookiecake, cheesecake, chocolate rice krispies, sweet tea. Was everything I dreamed.

459

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]MarkKO wrote:

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
Also just writing this as a note to myself, I need to start my sumo with the bar about an inch or so off my shins. the bar kept rolling a bit, causing the bar to be right on my shins as soon as I placed my feet. Think it was causing me to round a bit too much. [/quote]

Don’t you find that pulls you horribly out of position at the start? If I pull sumo and the bar comes even a centimetre away from my shins at any point my leverages go to hell - as opposed to conventional where I need the bar an inch or so off my shins. I guess that’s because for sumo I MUST have my shoulders behind the bar the whole time but for conventional shoulders over the bar or even a tad in front works better for me.

For sumo I drag the bar up my shins at the start - I always get some slight grazing through my socks.

Of course if an inch away works better for you it just works better for you, I’m just trying to picture how it’d work because I’m curious.[/quote]

Well first off I kind of have a ‘semi-sumo’ stance, so that’s likely the culprit. I drag the bar up my shins as well. I think it’s more I have to start with it a bit off my shins, but as I go down, grip it, and tighten up, it pulls everything in position to where then the bar IS right on my shins. So I guess I mean I need to ‘pull’ the bar into position, not start with my feet there and just drop down. For some reason it tweaks my set-up in a weird way.

I think it’s kind of how some people set their feet first with conventional, others set their grip, and while both do the same thing, if you’re used to one, you’ll probably have an issue getting the same tightness/feel doing it the other way. [/quote]

Ah, right. That makes sense now. I set up for sumo a little like Efferding does for conventional, one foot at a time and with shins right up on the bar. My sumo setup is pretty slow because I take time to make sure everything is exactly where I want it. I’m much quicker setting up for conventional, all I really do is make sure my width is ok and the bar is over my mid foot. Then I take a big air, squeeze my lats, grip the bar and pull as soon as my grip is closed. I did shake the hell out of the bar on my third attempt last meet but I was that angry with it I didn’t know I was doing it until I saw the video.

460

MarkKO: Yeah one of my biggest issues for Sumo is I can’t ‘rip and grip’ like I could with conventional. Though with hook grip now, even with conventional set-up takes a bit longer than I’d want

Hit Legs today, and had a great session!

Moderate Squats: Just felt so good today.
315x5x2

255x3x3 (Speed)

Paused High Bar Narrow Squats: Beltless
185x8
195x7
205x6

Deficit Conventional DL’s: Easy
345x6

Abs

Great workout, all 5 sets with 315 felt great. Not sure if depth was good enough, but I’ll have to take a vid from the side to know. Also put my belt up a bit higher. I don’t have that wide of a waist, so I felt pushing my ‘lower’ abdomen out wasn’t as good as pushing out aroung my belly button. Seemed to help a lot