[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]lift206 wrote:
I would toss in some seated good mornings to reinforce upper back tightness. If you don’t want to go heavy then do light work for developing the motor pattern. At least keep them in until your upper back no longer collapses.[/quote]
Do you have a video of that? I’ve googled it but just found traditional good monrings. I could alternate them as my first movement on my first pull day of the week[/quote]
No I don’t and won’t be lifting again until next week, lol. You can search for “seated good morning” or “westside seated good morning” on Youtube. IMO, you should do seated as opposed to standing so you don’t have to worry about hip position and focus mainly on your erector. I would suggest that you round the upper back at the bottom of the movement to make it harder on your thoracic spine but it isn’t necessary if you don’t feel comfortable doing that. The most important points are to hinge properly, brace your abs (and make sure your lower spine always remains locked unless you’re intentionally using light weights to go into lumbar flexion which I see no point in doing), and arch hard especially in the thoracic region to complete the lift.
IMO, good mornings for geared lifters are like front squats for raw lifters. Both accessory lifts really target the erectors and you get the most out of them if you keep the upper back tight (for now you can round the upper back at the bottom as a training tool and maybe in the future if you deadlift like Konstantin or find you really benefit from them). Good mornings emphasize the posterior chain more and front squats emphasize the anterior chain more but they both do a good job at strengthening the torso which is why so many people use them for accessory lifts. I just think good mornings are easier to execute in terms of mobility so it can be used as a great training tool. But remember that it only helps you achieve your goal if you’re doing it in the manner to develop the intended movement/muscle. It should give you clues how to setup for squat and deadlift.
Edit: Similar to front squats, don’t forget the chest up cue to get your upper back tight. One last thing I forgot to add is not to let the change in your programming affect your deadlift since you’ve been making great progress.
Thanks for the write-up lift. I am kind of scared now that you mentioned it, to adjust my training too much as my DL is going up. However I think some added Conventional work, from deficit especially, will help with my lockout strength on my Sumo, at least for the way I pull. But DL’s of any variation seems like a lot 2x a week, so idk yet.
Today did my First push workout of the week.
Flat Bench: Pretty solid.
225x1 (paused)
205x3x5
185x3x4 (focus on speed, 45-60s rest)
Paused Wide Grip Bench:
175x3x5-7
2 sets rear delts, 3 sets laterals, bunch of band pushdowns
Good workout. I have a vague outline of weights/reps/sets every week but feel a bit better is I have some wiggle room. Using the general GZCL guidelines along with a lot of Dan Green’s principle, but really every day is going to just be basic ‘do more work’ style of lifting.
Legs today
Squats: I did a light workout with HeavyTriple this weekend, he helped me with some Squat set-up things.
315x1
290x2x5
245x4x3 (focused on controlled eccentric, and then explosive concentric)
HB Paused Squats: Really trying to hit my Quads. I see these, realize they look better form wise, but think that’s just the light load
195x3x6
Then I did some abs and hangs from the chinning bar.
Plan was to do 3 sets of the 290x5, but the last rep of the 2nd set got away from me so called it there. Not going to be scared of volume, but I have come to realize that my leg volume I was used to at a commercial gym used things that were a lot less draining on recovery, so when compared to upper body, I’ll likely use a little less this time around for legs and build up
So had a crazy day yesterday, only got like 4 hrs of sleep on a crappy couch. Woke up, chugged some coffee + energy drink, drove home, and worked out. Knew it was going to be a rough workout, so didn’t push it.
Sumo DL: Just wanted to see how pulling from the floor felt. Just a belt
475x1
Fat Grip Chins: Chest to bar
+25x3x3
BWx8
Wide Grip BO Rows:
135x3x10
Rear Delts + Biceps
So DL didn’t feel horrible, but I didn’t feel strong. I like the ROM progression, but I think maybe doing some Deadstop reps off the 3-4 mat height would REALLY help the most, especially with keeping hips near the bar and getting stronger with a more upright torso. I also realize pulling after Leg day isn’t ideal, but honestly in PL meet you DL like a few hrs after Squatting, idk why doing it 24 hrs later would be that big an issue.
Still not sure how to set-up my Pull days, or if I even need 2 of them. So Idk lol
Push Volume Day
Paused Flat Bench: Felt good, long strong pauses
225x1
185x3x6
High Incline Pin Presses:
140x2x6
DB Seated Press:
40’sx2x10
CG Bench:
145x2x8-10
Tris + Delts Iso
Good workout. Felt strong, got a lot of pressing in. Really trying to hammer my delts + tris. Ideally I’d like to have a split where I Press 3x a week, Squat 2x a week, and DL once (good deal of volume), I think that’d be ideal but I’m too lazy to work something out that seems as tried and true as P/P/L
Legs Volume
Squats: Just going to add 5-10lbs every week to this, straight sets, until I can’t. last 3 sets beltless
245x1 (long pause)
225x5x5
Franken-Fronts: So I want to nail front squats. So I started to do the ‘handless’ style, arms straight out, to make SURE I’m going straight up and down, chest up.
135x6
145x6
155x6
165x6
175x4
185x4
Split Squats + Abs
Nice amount of volume, felt really good. Squats were GREAT! Felt fast, which is obvious because the light weight, but I think I FINALLY nailed the bracing, and it was so obvious I feel like an idiot. I was reading some Dan Green Q&A’s, and he was talking about how belts actually aid in making the core stronger, and how when he braces, he crunches ‘down’ on the belt while keeping chest up. That seemed weird, so I tried it. Wore the belt like 2 notches too loose, so I had to REALLY push out. Did first 2 sets, felt perfect. Then I took OFF the belt, and wow, there it was. I could finally ‘brace’, like doing it with a loose belt was the cue I needed. So for beltless stuff, may do a set or two with a loose belt first, because it seems to get everything firing for me
Also, the Franken-Fronts kind of not only kept me upright, but made me realize lately I’ve not even been putting the bar in the correct ‘nook’ behind my delts. No wonder I’m caving.
I’ll likely have to put Sumos on Saturday from now on though. Hips took SOOO long to get loose, hammies were still really wrecked, I think end of the week would be better.
That’s good to hear you figuring out the bracing. Those discoveries are some of the best moments in training, haha.
[quote]lift206 wrote:
That’s good to hear you figuring out the bracing. Those discoveries are some of the best moments in training, haha.[/quote]
Yeah I feel dumb for not trying it before haha
Did a Pull Day today
Deficit Conv DL: Beltless, no straps. Probably 3 inch deficit? Maybe a but more
405x1
315x6
SLDL: Off deficit
225x2x8
Then some high pulls, face pulls, and rows
Didn’t seem like a lot but this was hard. 405 was a bit slow, and if I don’t just blast off with the weight on Conventional it saps my energy a ton. Doing all reps deadstop for awhile. Definitely hit my mid back and erectors a lot more with this, hopefully these will help with a lot of those weaknesses.
Heavy Push
Flat Bench: Felt pretty solid. Some of the reps were a bit ‘slow’ with 215, but I just fought through and maintained form. I realized sometimes my sticking point is just because my ‘natural’ tendency is bad form, and my reps just slow down due to fighting bad habits
225x1 (paused)
215x3x4
185x4x4 (speed)
Wide Grip Bench: Damn these are so hard lol
175x2x5 (long pauses)
175x8 (TnG)
Then some tricep and delt stuff.
Good workout. I figured out my split I think. Basically will be in regards to Legs and Pull days:
Legs 1: Squats, HB Paused Squats, Conv Deficit DL
Pull 1: Bodybuilding Back + Bis
Pull 2: Sumo DL, Mat Pulls, SLDL, Chins
So that way I can get in DL’ing in some shape or form 2x a week, but have a bit more recovery. I thought of dispensing my back work across the week, and making a Dan Green style DL day, just Sumo, Block pulls, Conv Deficit, SLDL, etc, but I don’t want my sessions getting too long, so this seems a bit more manageable.
Goddammit Squats are my new Bench, aka shitty.
Squats: Idk, form looks ‘alright’ but it absolutely feels horrible lol
325x1
305x2x3
245x5x3 (speed)
HB Paused Squats:
200x2x6
185x8 (long pauses)
Deficit DL’s: Going to wear a belt on these because it seems easy to snap my shit up with these
325x2x6
Videoed a few of the lifts. Back Squats, the bar keeps shifting to my right shoulder blade, and it hurts lol. Idk I think I need to look at what others do with Squat. I feel I may need to just work up to a ‘top’ set, as opposed to straight sets, but I’m not sure yet. I’ve just made no Squat progress in the last few months. Yeah I’ve lost a lot of weight, but it’s still disheartening.
I do think I need to widen my grip again. I think I don’t have the mobility or maybe just strength to keep my elbows ‘down’ with a closer hand position. I tried warming up in flats, didn’t feel good. However, have though of using some old hard soled sneakers with a ver slight heel to try and Squat, may help with falling forward. I think I need a heel, but it may be that the adipowers heel is too big for me.
Been lurking on your log for a while and can definitely feel your pain when it comes to squatting. I’m 6’4" with some really log legs and it’s been a struggle in my two and a half year lifting career to keep consistent form when back squatting. Remembering the cues that was laid out for you in the squat form forum you made are easy to remember and tell someone to do but for us tall guys with long legs we are at a major leverage disadvantage. Rippetoe mentioned in Starting Strength that guys with longer femurs are going to have more forward lean than those with shorter femurs which is why guys with long torsos and short legs can squat almost straight up and down.
As far as weightlifting shoes I highly recommend the Adidas Men’s Powerlift 2. They have a half inch heel instead of the 3/4" heel that your Adipowers have. I have gone back and forth between my Powerlift shoes and Chucks and find I have an easier time squatting in the Adidas more so than Chucks. They are also only 90 bucks as opposed to 200.
I don’t have any great insight to help you out but from another tall lifter to another, keep up the good work and stay at it. I’m sure squats will click for the both of us eventually!
Nobody seems to post this image when discussing low bar squatting
Thanks for stopping by Jblues
Yeah I guess I’m not sure if I want to just accept an ugly low bar Squat with a lot of forward lean, or just lessen the load and stick with a high bar position. Low bar just feels ‘crappy’ if that makes sense haha. I already have the adipowers, I’d hate to buy ANOTHER pair lol
Any reason in particular for doing the low bar squat?
I feel like a squat is a squat. They’ll all build strong legs, it’s more about finding “your squat”. For some, it might be high bar, others might be low, others might be front squats, etc.
The squats in the videos looked fine. Feet are a little too wide and bar is a little too high for my own liking, but the form you are producing is sound. However, if you don’t like the movement, there is no reason to force it. I hear all the time how crucial high bar and front squats are to strongman, and I never do them, and I manage to get along just fine. I think you’ll manage the same as long as you are doing some sort of squat.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
Any reason in particular for doing the low bar squat?
I feel like a squat is a squat. They’ll all build strong legs, it’s more about finding “your squat”. For some, it might be high bar, others might be low, others might be front squats, etc.
The squats in the videos looked fine. Feet are a little too wide and bar is a little too high for my own liking, but the form you are producing is sound. However, if you don’t like the movement, there is no reason to force it. I hear all the time how crucial high bar and front squats are to strongman, and I never do them, and I manage to get along just fine. I think you’ll manage the same as long as you are doing some sort of squat.[/quote]
Well I’ve been trying to just give them an honest shot. I’m pretty long limbed, and thought maybe it’d benefit me, leverage wise, to switch to a lower bar and a wider stance. And while I don’t think my form looks that bad, it seems it’s inconsistent. I go down with the weight never feeling like I’m in control.
It could honestly just be I don’t have enough back muscle to properly hold a low bar position, as you said it’s still higher than you’d like and it still seems ‘high’ compared to others. I honestly took the last few months to clean up my form, and I’m not sure I’m much better for it. I may just be stronger with my weird narrower stance medium-high bar position. I do want to compete in PL’ing though at some point, so getting the hang of back squatting is a goal right now.
So what you said Pwnisher kind of resonated with me lol. I went out to my garage, and just put 225 on the bar, and did a bunch of doubles, kind of feeling out what feels best. Honestly, a slightly narrower stance than I’ve been taking, with feet out a bit more, and a ‘moderate’ bar position (Not on the top of my traps, but on the lower part) is what felt best. Now with maximal weight that could change, but honestly it’s what felt the least awkward, and allowed me to keep my hips close while still having the bar over the mid foot mostly. So I think I’m going honestly just go completely moderate- just moderate bar position, moderate stance width, moderate toe angle.
That’s awesome man. I think you’re going to find that it will work well for you. Everyone is going to have their own unique squat based on a variety of factors. If you go watch a powerlifting meet, it’s crazy how different everyone can be.
Good luck with the switch. The main things to focus on are to have a rigid torso and not to let your hips rise faster than your chest. Even if your hips shoot up, it should be okay if that happens while your chest still goes up with your hips to maintain your torso angle. Ben Rice squats like that and he’s pretty damn strong. Otherwise, I’ve never seen a record setting good morning squat. So regardless of whether you think your squat looks ugly, just keep that in mind and you’ll be on the right track.
If you still have problems with chest caving in the future I would suggest getting a safety squat bar. Learning to use the SSB, front squat, zercher squat, high bar, etc. all teach you to keep the upper back tight while squatting. That doesn’t guarantee you’ll do it effectively in the low bar but hopefully it bridges the gap to make the learning curve smaller. That really seems to be the main thing you need work on. IMO, getting the upper back tight (erectors not traps) should be prioritized over getting the lats tight. You already figured out how to brace your abs so you aren’t that far off in figuring out your technique to have a consistent squat. I think you’ll have it figured out within this year.
Remember, chest up!
Thanks guys. I’m definitely going to focus on the upper back tightness and keeping the chest up. I think bringing back some form of conventional DL’ing will help in getting stronger back/torso overall, along with just finding a Squat style that ‘feels’ and confident for me. A lot of my issues are mental IMO, i psyche myself out and think about a lot of things instead of just being focused on moving the weight sometimes.
Today did a Pull Hypetrophy workout today
Snatch Grip High Pulls: Did an actual collar to collar grip
185x3x3
Chins: Trying to get my chest up to the bar
+30x3x3
BWx10
BB Rows:
185x4x6
Then some rear delts, curls, and shrugs
Felt good, but straps kept slipping on the high pulls.
Push Volume
Paused Bench: ayye moving up steadily
225x1
190x5x5
High Incline Pin Presses: Videoed a set to show ya’ll what I’m talking about with these
145x4
135x6
DB Seated Presses:
40x12
CG Bench: Triceps really fatigue fast
145x2x10
Then some Tri and Delt stuff
So feeling good with this, form on Bench is getting solid (THX HEAVYTRIPLE). Can probably just milk the 5x5 Paused for a while honestly. Pin Presses, I do them that way as opposed to traditional OHP just because well, regular OHP fucks up my shoulders, so starting with the bar just around chin level makes sure I don’t mess with that dangerous bottom ROM that knocks my shoulder out of it’s socket routinely. Also, I can take my Flat Bench width grip, so better carryover I’d assume.
