wek,
Body comp = body composition = lean muscle vs. fat
I’m agree Mike R comment regarding flexibility (actually I agree with all of MRs comments), but you can’t just look at flexibility as “touching your toes”, that is just static flexibility. Mike is talking about dynamic flexibility; in other works things like stride length and ability to move quickly through a large ROM without injury.
Ryan
If OL’s don’t transfer directly to speed and explosiveness in sprinting and jumping then why was it that the Olympic Weightlifters of the Mexico 1964 olympics had the highest vertical jumps and the fastest 25 yard times of all the athletes tested including the sprinters and high jumpers? (yes good genetics would play a part but this would apply to the sprinters and high jumpers too)
Its not like they train for sprinting or jumping. It would be logical to conclude that OL and explosive lifts (high pulls e.t.c.) would transfer directly to improved sprint times at least in the first 25 yards which is probably the furthest a running back would have to run.
And as for a weak posterior chain being a limiting factor I agree but i don’t believe that this would prevent you from at least learning good technique. And you don’t have to do the full oly lifts or even the power versions to get the benefits. Anyone should be able to learn them using just the bar if necessary.
I know my posterior chain is weak, my max GM is only 87.5kg (192lbs) but i still managed to go from a 35kg (77lb) to 80kg (176lb) in the powersnatch in 4mths. Everybody has to start somewhere.
creed,
I’m a firm believer of OL moves, but the 1964 Olympic in Mexico testing may be an urban legend. One problem is that the 1964 Olympics were in Tokyo. There were several threads on other forums dealing with finding the actual data, but none appeared. The other things, which make me suspicious, is that most events don’t happen concurrently and many teams leave after their events, so when did the testing occur? Besides 1964 was the peak of the Cold War; which nations would allow their athletes to be tested (in tests were they may incur injury) and publish the data?
I believe that someone did the testing and that OL weightlifters posted high numbers, but the testing may have been done somewhere other than the Olympics.
If the testing actually did occur in 1964, remember that more then likely the only athletes who did strength training at that time were weightlifters, so were the results of the testing because of the OL moves, or simply strength training. Because most track and field athletes include strength training in their routines the results may be quite different.
Many OL weightlifters do sprint and practice jumping BTW.
Rick
That is very interesting stuff. Your reasoning makes perfect sense.
Also why do OL’s practice sprinting? I can understand jumping but sprinting…
Rick,
I was joking about the %. Your post was great
Wek,
From your description of your feet “being heavy on the ground” it sounds like you have a reactive imbalance. Your plyometric/reactive stretch shortening capacity is behind your muscular capacity. With each footstrike there is a reflexive process of absorption, stabilization, and reaction as your foot absorbs and creates additional energy from the ground and transfers energy from your hips back into the ground. It could be that you are not strong enough to absorb the forces created with each footstrike but, with a slow turnover that’s doubtful, rather, it’s probably the speed and ability of the entire reflexive process that could use some work. I have an 8 year old nephew who’d be lucky to squat 50lbs yet is as quick and quiet on his feet as can be, due to his natural reactive ability.
In addition to working on your overall strength and explosiveness, work on improving this reactive ability particularly in your plantar flexors. One thing you can do that is obvious is sprint to full speed and learn to relax as much as possible. Also drills like low rhythmic box jumps, ankle jumps, and fast slalom jumps can be used building up into an elevated drop jump stepping off into an athletic stance position on your toes, and then progressing that drop jump into a depth jump.
Thanks Rick, and creed too. That is info I’d like to see.
Later,
Ryan
Rick. Look at the sprinters in the Tokyo Olympiad Documentary and tell me they didn’t lift weights. Bob Hayes looks like he could bench double bodyweight easy.
theories and personal beliefs are great, a lot of things work in theory or are strongly supported by personal beliefs, but as William James said almost 100 years ago, reality is what works. Is this saying oly’s are to be the only thing comprised in a lifting plan? No way, but they are to be included and are essential! In reality look at an oly lifters vert and acceleration(acc. is key in football), along with the strength in their p chain which can be developed with olys and not to mention the numerous neural stimulations and adaptation caused by them(too extensive of a subject). Put them on it, all this bs about being strong first, wow fantastic, just go at your own pace, you can develop both, strength train and oly train, just go at the individual pace, if the person can only do the bar properly fine, but progress will occur. Hey I only did olys for the reintroduction to weight training after an extensive layoff and look where it got me, a 265 bench 415 squat and 405 deadlift, and Im only going up. Oh yes and my quickness, agility, and vert have all rised along with lean body mass.
creed,
Back in the ice age (late 1950s) when my dad was on the OL team, they trained at a facility with athletes from other disciplines. During the off-season, they all participated in many different sports (soccer, track, fencing, etc). The theory was the more sports they were involved in the better athletes they would become. I also think it served as GPP training and took their minds of their regular sports in order to recuperate mentally.
I believe today?s OL sprint to enhance their neural efficiency and to increase GPP.
Squattin600,
I figured you were kidding, but after I posted I though about my reasoning and though that I would get it down on ?paper?.
Kelly Bagget,
Great post! I would like to add that one thing people seldom attribute to great power running backs is their ability to switch quickly between relaxed (full sprint) and tight (delivering a blow to a tackler, changing directions) states.
nArKeD,
Looking at pictures of Bob Hayes I see a guy with great genetics. I?m not positive he didn?t lift weights, but I?d be willing to bet that his physique was developed sprinting and boxing (his father was a boxer).
numba56,
As the philosopher Ido Nowho said, ?A building is only as good as its foundation.? The reason the teaching protocol for most OL programs breaks the movements into components is that allows the building of a foundation.
I?m not sure what your background is, but wek at 15 more than likely doesn?t have much lifting experience. Doesn?t it make sense to learn the proper form of less complex movements before attempting to learn the proper form for OL moves? How many people in the gym actually use the proper form for squatting, deadlifting, or benching?