[quote]Tank53 wrote:
God in the same moment does bring absolute love but also absolute judgement, and those go hand and hand. God cannot exist as God without these two. We cannot focus solely on one or the other, my point. Each are wonderful[/quote]
I agree, but the use of derogatory words in an angry and hateful context would not could as Godly judgement in any christians opinion.
[quote]Tank53 wrote:
Generally, you can say that God is all loving. In the same token though, He is a God of judgement. Often those two ideas don’t intertwine in people’s head. How can an all loving God, for example, send people to hell? Well I’m not here to answer that question specifically but to give you a small thought to think about.
Let’s say for example, you have a small daughter playing outside in the yard. A small stray nasty looking dog comes up the alley, baring its ugly teeth, to your back yard where she is playing. What would be your first reaction as a loving father or mother? Go pet the dog and say “nice doggie, go play with my daughter”? Of course not. You’d probably chase it away, or go and defend your daughter. What might seem like hatred for the dog is love and care for your daughter.
The reason i mention this is people ought to know for God to have absolute love for His children means He also must have a certain hatred for the things that harm them. I know its disillusions people to have a God who hates sin, for example, yet loves absolutely His children. How can it be? But both those attributes exist, one not excluding the other, to give the full character of God.
God in the same moment does bring absolute love but also absolute judgement, and those go hand and hand. God cannot exist as God without these two. We cannot focus solely on one or the other, my point. Each are wonderful[/quote]
This story vexes me. Is the dog the people that God creates and then burns in hell for eternity? If so, why did you only chase it away? It would have been better if you had raised the dog from a little puppy, beating the shit out of it each day, scaring it, not feeding it.
Then someday when the dog barked at your daughter, you could pour gas on it and set it ablaze.
[quote]Feanor76 wrote:
I know far more about this subject than I’d ever really care to. The wikipedia entry posted early should give you the general facts of the matter. One thing that may not be mentioned is that some of the most fundamentalist, Pentacostal churches will only consider “tongues” to be legitimate if it is “interpreted” into English.
Invariably, such interpretation begins with “Thus sayeth the Lord unto you” and continues using Biblical imagery, King James phrasing, and is either 1) comforting and encouraging, 2) admonishing, or 3) predicting the future in some general, unspecified way.
As far as understanding the process, I’d compare it most closely to trance dancing where you are producing muscular contractions within a very broadly defined framework. Your mind may or may not be consciously guiding the actions. The “interpretation” step is simply a different person telling a story in a particular vocabulary (essentially at random) that has no connection to the initial speaking in tongues.
Regards,
Mark[/quote]
I think Feanor76 is completely correct in what he has described in both the above paragraphs.
Thanks to those who kept it on topic. I’ve got a much better understanding now.
[quote]Northcott wrote:
Dragon wrote:
From what ive seen on christian television, nowdays speaking in tongues looks as fake as the davici code/ dead sea crolls/ the book of judas…
You’re kidding… right?
[/quote]
the davinci code is a ficticious novel as its author admits. the dead sea scrolls and the scriptures supposedly written by judas are real. The Orthodox Church new about that piece of writting (judas) from its very beginnings. There was a reason why it was left out of the Holy Bible and not included as a true Gospel; because it was heretical. laters pk
[quote]swordthrower wrote:
john w wrote:
i’ve yet to see any real proof from the Bible
HA! You said “proof from the bible.” That’s some funny shit. Kinda like how the Bible proves that the Bible is the word of God, right?[/quote]
The Holy Bible is about The Word of God. It is not The Word. The Word is Jesus Christ Himself. The Holy Bible was put together by men who decided to include what ever books they chose in the first Ecumenical Conference. That is why the Holy Bible is just one piece of the puzzle in Christianity. laters pk
Utterances of demons.
Two basic types of “Tounges”:
Speaking directly to God through the Holy Spirt.
The Holy Spirt gives a message to a group throught one person and will be translated by someone.
The rules of speaking in tounges are, if real, it will not interupt the service. Also if God provides a message he will provide a person to translate. Keep in mind this is from my experience. I was raised a Baptist and it freaked me out the first time that I experienced tounges. I always worry about how easay it would be to use this to manipulate people. After saying that, I have no doubt that some of it is real and true.
Me Solomon Grundy
[quote]pkradgreek wrote:
swordthrower wrote:
john w wrote:
i’ve yet to see any real proof from the Bible
HA! You said “proof from the bible.” That’s some funny shit. Kinda like how the Bible proves that the Bible is the word of God, right?
The Holy Bible is about The Word of God. It is not The Word. The Word is Jesus Christ Himself. The Holy Bible was put together by men who decided to include what ever books they chose in the first Ecumenical Conference. That is why the Holy Bible is just one piece of the puzzle in Christianity. laters pk[/quote]
Thanks for the response. while i agree that Jesus himself is identified as the Word of God in John, I also believe the Bible to be the written “word” of God. I don’t know where you got the information that books were merely “chosen” at man’s whim, but that is hardly the case. through history we can trace the books of the bible to the early church fathers. each book in the Bible is in harmony with the rest of the Bible. certain books were rejected because they contained teachings contrary to what Jesus taught.
gospel of Thomas, peter, mary,judas, etc. also were written during the 2nd or 3rd century by gnostics; the gospels and the rest of the canon of the “new” testament can be dated back to the 1st century, some it has been argued to have been written within a generation of Christ himself). the council of Nicea which I believe is what you are referring to, was convened in order to combat heresies concerning the divinity and humanity of Christ.
the listing of the 27 books of the new testament was written at the Synod of Hippo in 393 AD. while this didn’t decide upon their inspiration, it recorded their previously established canonicity. which books were canon and were not can be seen in the following church fathers writings: polycarp, clement of rome, justin martyr, irenaeus, tertullian, origen, eusebius, and athanasis of alexandria. the gospels, acts, and the core of the new testament were never doubted as to their canonical authority.
a handful of books such as hebrews, 2 peter, revelation, 2 and 3 john, and james were questioned but were eventually accepted as canon.
as christians, we believe these men who “chose” these books were under the guidance of the Holy Spirit and that God led them to choose the books that were the true “Word”.
to the original response, i never said the Bible is the Word of God just because it says so. christians base their practices on the Bible, in 2 timothy 3:16 it states that all scripture is “God-breathed” or inspired for those non King James folks. since they (penecostals) also base their practices on the Bible for speaking in tongues (read, a supposed “heavenly language”)I am curious exactly how they justify it if they believe as we do that the Bible is the inspired Word of God.
if you are truly curious about the history or “proof” of the bible I would recommend the following site:
Speaking in tongues is a good way to keep a group of idiots (e.g., poor, uneducated, and profoundly religious) busy for a while. When I was about 12 I used to think things like speaking in tongues, ghosts, the occult, black magic, ESP, religion, etc. were all real things. I suppose in retrospect (and after many years of schooling) I see what an idiot I was, but at the same time it is amazing how many people still are ignorant/gullible enough to believe in such crap; I?m not just talking about 12 year olds, but grown men and women who should have the common sense to figure it out.
Read the book “The Illusion of Conscious Will” by Daniel Wegner if you are having trouble understanding how such things like speaking in tongues, spiritual healing, conversing with spirits etc. is “possible.” This book gives a good overview of why these things occur throughout all walks of humanity, and it is written in a manner that most people who have graduated high school should be able to understand.