Spazzing Out Sparring Partners

Training
1

Recently other white belts of the same grade and size as me are spazzing out on me whilst rolling. I get the impression when they roll with someone of the same stature they know its all down to there own technique so become angry when it doesn’t work.

This has happened to me twice in one month each time I was dominating the positions and hitting submissions. Everytime its someone within my weight class or near enough, never had a problem with the larger guys they know they can just over power if need be.

Any advice on how to deal with these guys? Should I let them pass my guard maybe let them gain a dominant position on me once in a while?

2

If you are completely dominating someone while rolling then IMO, yes you should allow them to have some success sometimes and maybe work on your defensive game. So yes, let them pass your guard (make them work for it a little of course) and then let them try to impose their top game while you work on your sub defenses and escapes. Remember that you should both be there to make each other better and build each other up, not demoralize/conquer each other.

You can also tell your training partner what you are going to go for or just keep going for the same thing over and over and tell them how to defend against it to make things harder on yourself and make you better at setting up, hitting the sub, and extensions off of it while making them better at defending against it.

You could also just start from a position of disadvantage and give your training partner the green light to go for any submissions they want and to try to maintain their position while your goal is to get to a dominant position and submit them. If either of you are successful then you just start over again. This is a great option if you know there is a certain position and/or submission that you need extra work on escaping/defending.

Really several ways to go about evening the playing field so you can both still work hard, but even out the skill disparity to a degree and allow you both to have some success while continuing to improve. It will also help both of you to develop a more well rounded skill set than just playing to your strengths all the time.

3

Don’t roll with white belts.

4

“Same grade and size”, are you also a white belt? I’d say if you’re a white belt and other white belts are spazzing, keep doing what you’re doing. Eventually they’ll figure out that spazzing isn’t getting them anywhere and try to sharpen up their technique. But if you’re a little more experienced than they are I’d let them work more and work on your own weak spots. Sento gives good advice.

5

Trust me. Don’t roll with white belts but people who are better. You will get better faster and actually get to improve your technique…unless the upper belts are jerks or spazzes in which case you should switch schools.

Then when you do roll with white belts just crush them. It’s the upper belts’ job to help lower ranking students improve, not yours. Don’t let them pass because they haven’t earned it if they are not doing the technique correctly. Don’t reinforce their incorrect approach to BJJ. Learn from the upper belts and use those lessons against people at your level. A white belt “beating” another white belt is OK. A purple belt crushing a white belt is not, unless that white belt needs to be taught a lesson.

6

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
If you are completely dominating someone while rolling then IMO, yes you should allow them to have some success sometimes and maybe work on your defensive game. So yes, let them pass your guard (make them work for it a little of course) and then let them try to impose their top game while you work on your sub defenses and escapes. Remember that you should both be there to make each other better and build each other up, not demoralize/conquer each other.

You can also tell your training partner what you are going to go for or just keep going for the same thing over and over and tell them how to defend against it to make things harder on yourself and make you better at setting up, hitting the sub, and extensions off of it while making them better at defending against it.

You could also just start from a position of disadvantage and give your training partner the green light to go for any submissions they want and to try to maintain their position while your goal is to get to a dominant position and submit them. If either of you are successful then you just start over again. This is a great option if you know there is a certain position and/or submission that you need extra work on escaping/defending.

Really several ways to go about evening the playing field so you can both still work hard, but even out the skill disparity to a degree and allow you both to have some success while continuing to improve. It will also help both of you to develop a more well rounded skill set than just playing to your strengths all the time.[/quote]

Points noted thanks for the comprehensive answer Sento!

7

[quote]Melvin Smiley wrote:
“Same grade and size”, are you also a white belt? I’d say if you’re a white belt and other white belts are spazzing, keep doing what you’re doing. Eventually they’ll figure out that spazzing isn’t getting them anywhere and try to sharpen up their technique. But if you’re a little more experienced than they are I’d let them work more and work on your own weak spots. Sento gives good advice.[/quote]

Yep im still white belt im 8-9 months in.

8

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Trust me. Don’t roll with white belts but people who are better. You will get better faster and actually get to improve your technique…unless the upper belts are jerks or spazzes in which case you should switch schools.

Then when you do roll with white belts just crush them. It’s the upper belts’ job to help lower ranking students improve, not yours. Don’t let them pass because they haven’t earned it if they are not doing the technique correctly. Don’t reinforce their incorrect approach to BJJ. Learn from the upper belts and use those lessons against people at your level. A white belt “beating” another white belt is OK. A purple belt crushing a white belt is not, unless that white belt needs to be taught a lesson.
[/quote]

I agree that training with people who are better than you is extremely beneficial. But I disagree with your attitude towards training with people at or below your level. It should be everyone’s goal and to a greater or lesser extent responsibility to try to make everyone you train with (better, same level, or below) better every time you train. That is going to make for the most productive training environment possible and eventually make you a much better coach and technician once you reach the higher ranks or even have your own school someday.

9

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Trust me. Don’t roll with white belts but people who are better. You will get better faster and actually get to improve your technique…unless the upper belts are jerks or spazzes in which case you should switch schools.

Then when you do roll with white belts just crush them. It’s the upper belts’ job to help lower ranking students improve, not yours. Don’t let them pass because they haven’t earned it if they are not doing the technique correctly. Don’t reinforce their incorrect approach to BJJ. Learn from the upper belts and use those lessons against people at your level. A white belt “beating” another white belt is OK. A purple belt crushing a white belt is not, unless that white belt needs to be taught a lesson.
[/quote]

I agree that training with people who are better than you is extremely beneficial. But I disagree with your attitude towards training with people at or below your level. It should be everyone’s goal and to a greater or lesser extent responsibility to try to make everyone you train with (better, same level, or below) better every time you train. That is going to make for the most productive training environment possible and eventually make you a much better coach and technician once you reach the higher ranks or even have your own school someday.[/quote]

Its funny because id just shown the guy who spazzed on me why i was rolling him of me in side control. I agree if everyone is challenging each other the whole club grows.

10

[quote]Pete86 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Trust me. Don’t roll with white belts but people who are better. You will get better faster and actually get to improve your technique…unless the upper belts are jerks or spazzes in which case you should switch schools.

Then when you do roll with white belts just crush them. It’s the upper belts’ job to help lower ranking students improve, not yours. Don’t let them pass because they haven’t earned it if they are not doing the technique correctly. Don’t reinforce their incorrect approach to BJJ. Learn from the upper belts and use those lessons against people at your level. A white belt “beating” another white belt is OK. A purple belt crushing a white belt is not, unless that white belt needs to be taught a lesson.
[/quote]

I agree that training with people who are better than you is extremely beneficial. But I disagree with your attitude towards training with people at or below your level. It should be everyone’s goal and to a greater or lesser extent responsibility to try to make everyone you train with (better, same level, or below) better every time you train. That is going to make for the most productive training environment possible and eventually make you a much better coach and technician once you reach the higher ranks or even have your own school someday.[/quote]

Its funny because id just shown the guy who spazzed on me why i was rolling him of me in side control. I agree if everyone is challenging each other the whole club grows.[/quote]

Sometimes it’s also good to remember that your training partners are only human. You may pick up on techniques, or concepts in BJJ fairly easily while others may have a much harder time going so. We all have our strengths and weaknesses and sometimes our weaknesses can frustrate us if they aren’t improving at the rate we’d like them to. And you never know what is going on in a person’s life off the mat. So don’t be too quick to judge people for “spazzing” out. You seem like you have the right attitude though.

Finally, some people are just naturally talented while others are not, so it’s also good to not always equate “winning” with successful learning. If you start out at a “5” due to natural talent (strong, fast, flexible, coordinated, good balance, etc…) and in a years time work yourself up to a “6”, while someone else starts at a “1” (very naturally unathletic) but works themselves up to a “4” by year end you may still beat them while rolling, but IMO they have actually improved, grown, and been more successful than you in that year’s time. Or even if they haven’t progressed that much, but have stuck if out, even though it was very difficult for them and had them getting frustrated and tapped all the time; that is still admirable .

11

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]Pete86 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Trust me. Don’t roll with white belts but people who are better. You will get better faster and actually get to improve your technique…unless the upper belts are jerks or spazzes in which case you should switch schools.

Then when you do roll with white belts just crush them. It’s the upper belts’ job to help lower ranking students improve, not yours. Don’t let them pass because they haven’t earned it if they are not doing the technique correctly. Don’t reinforce their incorrect approach to BJJ. Learn from the upper belts and use those lessons against people at your level. A white belt “beating” another white belt is OK. A purple belt crushing a white belt is not, unless that white belt needs to be taught a lesson.
[/quote]

I agree that training with people who are better than you is extremely beneficial. But I disagree with your attitude towards training with people at or below your level. It should be everyone’s goal and to a greater or lesser extent responsibility to try to make everyone you train with (better, same level, or below) better every time you train. That is going to make for the most productive training environment possible and eventually make you a much better coach and technician once you reach the higher ranks or even have your own school someday.[/quote]

Its funny because id just shown the guy who spazzed on me why i was rolling him of me in side control. I agree if everyone is challenging each other the whole club grows.[/quote]

Sometimes it’s also good to remember that your training partners are only human. You may pick up on techniques, or concepts in BJJ fairly easily while others may have a much harder time going so. We all have our strengths and weaknesses and sometimes our weaknesses can frustrate us if they aren’t improving at the rate we’d like them to. And you never know what is going on in a person’s life off the mat. So don’t be too quick to judge people for “spazzing” out. You seem like you have the right attitude though.

Finally, some people are just naturally talented while others are not, so it’s also good to not always equate “winning” with successful learning. If you start out at a “5” due to natural talent (strong, fast, flexible, coordinated, good balance, etc…) and in a years time work yourself up to a “6”, while someone else starts at a “1” (very naturally unathletic) but works themselves up to a “4” by year end you may still beat them while rolling, but IMO they have actually improved, grown, and been more successful than you in that year’s time. Or even if they haven’t progressed that much, but have stuck if out, even though it was very difficult for them and had them getting frustrated and tapped all the time; that is still admirable .[/quote]

I hear you im often one of the smallest at the club, its a grind.

12

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]Pete86 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Trust me. Don’t roll with white belts but people who are better. You will get better faster and actually get to improve your technique…unless the upper belts are jerks or spazzes in which case you should switch schools.

Then when you do roll with white belts just crush them. It’s the upper belts’ job to help lower ranking students improve, not yours. Don’t let them pass because they haven’t earned it if they are not doing the technique correctly. Don’t reinforce their incorrect approach to BJJ. Learn from the upper belts and use those lessons against people at your level. A white belt “beating” another white belt is OK. A purple belt crushing a white belt is not, unless that white belt needs to be taught a lesson.
[/quote]

I agree that training with people who are better than you is extremely beneficial. But I disagree with your attitude towards training with people at or below your level. It should be everyone’s goal and to a greater or lesser extent responsibility to try to make everyone you train with (better, same level, or below) better every time you train. That is going to make for the most productive training environment possible and eventually make you a much better coach and technician once you reach the higher ranks or even have your own school someday.[/quote]

Its funny because id just shown the guy who spazzed on me why i was rolling him of me in side control. I agree if everyone is challenging each other the whole club grows.[/quote]

Sometimes it’s also good to remember that your training partners are only human. You may pick up on techniques, or concepts in BJJ fairly easily while others may have a much harder time going so. We all have our strengths and weaknesses and sometimes our weaknesses can frustrate us if they aren’t improving at the rate we’d like them to. And you never know what is going on in a person’s life off the mat. So don’t be too quick to judge people for “spazzing” out. You seem like you have the right attitude though.

Finally, some people are just naturally talented while others are not, so it’s also good to not always equate “winning” with successful learning. If you start out at a “5” due to natural talent (strong, fast, flexible, coordinated, good balance, etc…) and in a years time work yourself up to a “6”, while someone else starts at a “1” (very naturally unathletic) but works themselves up to a “4” by year end you may still beat them while rolling, but IMO they have actually improved, grown, and been more successful than you in that year’s time. Or even if they haven’t progressed that much, but have stuck if out, even though it was very difficult for them and had them getting frustrated and tapped all the time; that is still admirable .[/quote]

every post of yours is very valuable!

13

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
If you are completely dominating someone while rolling then IMO, yes you should allow them to have some success sometimes and maybe work on your defensive game. So yes, let them pass your guard (make them work for it a little of course) and then let them try to impose their top game while you work on your sub defenses and escapes. Remember that you should both be there to make each other better and build each other up, not demoralize/conquer each other.
.[/quote]

i strongly disagree with this… by doing this, you’re teaching them that what they’re doing works. it doesn’t work, and they need to be a)taught proper technique and b)understand that it doesn’t work.

rolling/sparring and drilling are 2 different things. drilling is working through a technique with varying levels of resistance. but sparring should be reserved for focused technique, at the very least…

14

^this might appear demoralizing to some, but sweep, submit, whatever, and explain what happened. start rolling again, and continue, if necessary… it’s not your job to coddle someone because they haven’t learned the appropriate technique. as a training partner, it’s your job to be a good partner… the better you make each other, the better partner you are.

15

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
If you are completely dominating someone while rolling then IMO, yes you should allow them to have some success sometimes and maybe work on your defensive game. So yes, let them pass your guard (make them work for it a little of course) and then let them try to impose their top game while you work on your sub defenses and escapes. Remember that you should both be there to make each other better and build each other up, not demoralize/conquer each other.
.[/quote]

i strongly disagree with this… by doing this, you’re teaching them that what they’re doing works. it doesn’t work, and they need to be a)taught proper technique and b)understand that it doesn’t work.

rolling/sparring and drilling are 2 different things. drilling is working through a technique with varying levels of resistance. but sparring should be reserved for focused technique, at the very least…[/quote]

Perhaps I wasn’t completely clear about what I meant.

Let’s say I have someone in my guard who I am much better than or just sweeping or submitting at will. What good does it really do either of us if I just continue to tool on them other than to boost my ego and crush their spirit?

I’m not suggesting that you just let them pass via incorrect technique; what I’m saying is to let them have some success passing but make them do it right and make them work for it. We’re talking about white belts here; they’re practically babies. If they know any effective passes, it’s probably only one, maybe two, they aren’t going to likely be great at executing or setting them up, and really they shouldn’t be expected to (keep in mind I’m talking about being good enough to pull them off against someone who is better than them). And clearly, from the OP’s post, these people were struggling with correctly executing the techniques during rolling.

Or, you just start from a position or disadvantage right from the get go (give them side control, mount, north south, back control, etc…) do they get to work on their offense while you work on your defense.

You should be able to turn your intensity dial up or down accordingly so that both people are being challenged, neither is being cheated or conquered.

16

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
^this might appear demoralizing to some, but sweep, submit, whatever, and explain what happened. start rolling again, and continue, if necessary… it’s not your job to coddle someone because they haven’t learned the appropriate technique. as a training partner, it’s your job to be a good partner… the better you make each other, the better partner you are.[/quote]

Agree

17

[quote]MWP wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
^this might appear demoralizing to some, but sweep, submit, whatever, and explain what happened. start rolling again, and continue, if necessary… it’s not your job to coddle someone because they haven’t learned the appropriate technique. as a training partner, it’s your job to be a good partner… the better you make each other, the better partner you are.[/quote]

Agree
[/quote]

yes, the objective of training is to improve and that means for both sides, it’s not the k-1 GP final.

18

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
If you are completely dominating someone while rolling then IMO, yes you should allow them to have some success sometimes and maybe work on your defensive game. So yes, let them pass your guard (make them work for it a little of course) and then let them try to impose their top game while you work on your sub defenses and escapes. Remember that you should both be there to make each other better and build each other up, not demoralize/conquer each other.
.[/quote]

i strongly disagree with this… by doing this, you’re teaching them that what they’re doing works. it doesn’t work, and they need to be a)taught proper technique and b)understand that it doesn’t work.

rolling/sparring and drilling are 2 different things. drilling is working through a technique with varying levels of resistance. but sparring should be reserved for focused technique, at the very least…[/quote]

Perhaps I wasn’t completely clear about what I meant.

Let’s say I have someone in my guard who I am much better than or just sweeping or submitting at will. What good does it really do either of us if I just continue to tool on them other than to boost my ego and crush their spirit?

I’m not suggesting that you just let them pass via incorrect technique; what I’m saying is to let them have some success passing but make them do it right and make them work for it. We’re talking about white belts here; they’re practically babies. If they know any effective passes, it’s probably only one, maybe two, they aren’t going to likely be great at executing or setting them up, and really they shouldn’t be expected to (keep in mind I’m talking about being good enough to pull them off against someone who is better than them). And clearly, from the OP’s post, these people were struggling with correctly executing the techniques during rolling.

Or, you just start from a position or disadvantage right from the get go (give them side control, mount, north south, back control, etc…) do they get to work on their offense while you work on your defense.

You should be able to turn your intensity dial up or down accordingly so that both people are being challenged, neither is being cheated or conquered.[/quote]

While I like the idea about starting form a disadvantageous position or “calling a shot”, do you really think that most white belts, even if they are superior to their sparring partner, have a complete enough grasp on the techniques to dial it back and allow their partner to pass without reinforcing a bad technique??

19

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
If you are completely dominating someone while rolling then IMO, yes you should allow them to have some success sometimes and maybe work on your defensive game. So yes, let them pass your guard (make them work for it a little of course) and then let them try to impose their top game while you work on your sub defenses and escapes. Remember that you should both be there to make each other better and build each other up, not demoralize/conquer each other.
.[/quote]

i strongly disagree with this… by doing this, you’re teaching them that what they’re doing works. it doesn’t work, and they need to be a)taught proper technique and b)understand that it doesn’t work.

rolling/sparring and drilling are 2 different things. drilling is working through a technique with varying levels of resistance. but sparring should be reserved for focused technique, at the very least…[/quote]

Perhaps I wasn’t completely clear about what I meant.

Let’s say I have someone in my guard who I am much better than or just sweeping or submitting at will. What good does it really do either of us if I just continue to tool on them other than to boost my ego and crush their spirit?

I’m not suggesting that you just let them pass via incorrect technique; what I’m saying is to let them have some success passing but make them do it right and make them work for it. We’re talking about white belts here; they’re practically babies. If they know any effective passes, it’s probably only one, maybe two, they aren’t going to likely be great at executing or setting them up, and really they shouldn’t be expected to (keep in mind I’m talking about being good enough to pull them off against someone who is better than them). And clearly, from the OP’s post, these people were struggling with correctly executing the techniques during rolling.

Or, you just start from a position or disadvantage right from the get go (give them side control, mount, north south, back control, etc…) do they get to work on their offense while you work on your defense.

You should be able to turn your intensity dial up or down accordingly so that both people are being challenged, neither is being cheated or conquered.[/quote]

While I like the idea about starting form a disadvantageous position or “calling a shot”, do you really think that most white belts, even if they are superior to their sparring partner, have a complete enough grasp on the techniques to dial it back and allow their partner to pass without reinforcing a bad technique?? [/quote]

Depends on the school and the white belt, but in most cases probably no, they don’t.

One could choose not to use a counter or technical defense to a pass though. That way the other student’s technique still has to be correct to pass, but he’s not being shut down. Either that or like I said, just keep going for the same sweep or submission and it should continue to get more and more challenging as they start to get better at defending it which will force you to work on your submission set-ups, extensions, and combinations.