The “Reverends” Jackson and Sharpton on site in 5,4,3,2,1.
And if I walk in and a guy has raped and hurt my family…I am gonna put a whole clip in him…jail be damned.
[quote]Sifu wrote:
Let me start off by saying the cop was very wrong to shoot the man in the back and then plant evidence next to the body. But now that we have the dash cam video we also get to see the other side of this. Walter Scott did a dumb thing by getting out of his car and running.
This is a recurring theme with these incidents. Someone does something which gives the police a reason or excuse to impose their authority on them and they over react. The moral of the story is when having an encounter with the police remain calm, civil and orderly.
[/quote]
Interesting enough the audio cuts out at just the right moments.
My point still stands. You want to throw this dude a beating for running, fine. I’m not pleased with it, but fine.
Shooting him? Nope.
What if the publicity surrounding all of these questionable police shootings is intended to pressure localities into equipping their officers with body cameras? What if body cameras are desired by the government for the purpose of eliminating officers that exercise discretion when dealing with minor/victimless crimes? I’ll just say, to those wanting police officers to wear cameras at all times, be careful what you ask for…you remember the last time a change ultimately resulted in more freedom or safety, right?
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]Sifu wrote:
Let me start off by saying the cop was very wrong to shoot the man in the back and then plant evidence next to the body. But now that we have the dash cam video we also get to see the other side of this. Walter Scott did a dumb thing by getting out of his car and running.
This is a recurring theme with these incidents. Someone does something which gives the police a reason or excuse to impose their authority on them and they over react. The moral of the story is when having an encounter with the police remain calm, civil and orderly.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/09/us/south-carolina-police-shooting/[/quote]
Sounds to me like you’re saying the moral of the story is to remain calm and civil, or you’ll get fucking shot. If that’s the way encounters with the police go, then we need new police.[/quote]
Both of you are correct.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]Sifu wrote:
Let me start off by saying the cop was very wrong to shoot the man in the back and then plant evidence next to the body. But now that we have the dash cam video we also get to see the other side of this. Walter Scott did a dumb thing by getting out of his car and running.
This is a recurring theme with these incidents. Someone does something which gives the police a reason or excuse to impose their authority on them and they over react. The moral of the story is when having an encounter with the police remain calm, civil and orderly.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/09/us/south-carolina-police-shooting/[/quote]
Sounds to me like you’re saying the moral of the story is to remain calm and civil, or you’ll get fucking shot. If that’s the way encounters with the police go, then we need new police.[/quote]
Exactly. I don’t think staying calm and civil is something everyone is going to do. Obviously people may run for a variety of reasons. Does that mean we make things easy by just killing them?
Shouldn’t shooting be reserved for when one’s life is in danger. I don’t see how anybody could watch that video (unless you know someone wanted to make a bunch of comments on it but not watch it) and think shooting was necessary. Motherfucker could barely move to begin with.
The calmness is very spooky. The cop doing the shooting seems as relaxed as possible.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]Sifu wrote:
Let me start off by saying the cop was very wrong to shoot the man in the back and then plant evidence next to the body. But now that we have the dash cam video we also get to see the other side of this. Walter Scott did a dumb thing by getting out of his car and running.
This is a recurring theme with these incidents. Someone does something which gives the police a reason or excuse to impose their authority on them and they over react. The moral of the story is when having an encounter with the police remain calm, civil and orderly.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/09/us/south-carolina-police-shooting/[/quote]
Sounds to me like you’re saying the moral of the story is to remain calm and civil, or you’ll get fucking shot. If that’s the way encounters with the police go, then we need new police.[/quote]
No what I am saying is there are two sides to this. On the one hand Walter Scott did not deserve to get shot, he probably even didn’t deserve to get a beat down either.
On the other hand he is the one who chose to resist arrest which was the beginning of the chain of events that ended up with him getting killed.
This is something that keeps repeating. Someone chooses to flee and elude or resist arrest, which gets the cops excited and then something bad happens. The reason why is because of human nature. Even a good cop can get drawn into a situation where he does something that he may not have been predisposed to do.
I doubt that when Slager first stopped Scott he was planning to commit a cold blooded murder. If Scott had gone along quietly and cooperated I don’t think Slager would have shot him.
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]Sifu wrote:
Let me start off by saying the cop was very wrong to shoot the man in the back and then plant evidence next to the body. But now that we have the dash cam video we also get to see the other side of this. Walter Scott did a dumb thing by getting out of his car and running.
This is a recurring theme with these incidents. Someone does something which gives the police a reason or excuse to impose their authority on them and they over react. The moral of the story is when having an encounter with the police remain calm, civil and orderly.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/09/us/south-carolina-police-shooting/[/quote]
Sounds to me like you’re saying the moral of the story is to remain calm and civil, or you’ll get fucking shot. If that’s the way encounters with the police go, then we need new police.[/quote]
Exactly. I don’t think staying calm and civil is something everyone is going to do. Obviously people may run for a variety of reasons. Does that mean we make things easy by just killing them?
Shouldn’t shooting be reserved for when one’s life is in danger. I don’t see how anybody could watch that video (unless you know someone wanted to make a bunch of comments on it but not watch it) and think shooting was necessary. Motherfucker could barely move to begin with.
The calmness is very spooky. The cop doing the shooting seems as relaxed as possible. [/quote]
I agree with your general premise in a normative sense. Yes, we SHOULD remain calm and civil when interacting with the police. However, it should NOT be incumbent upon someone to do so.
When it comes to the police, this isn’t a normative matter at all; it’s strictly positive. Police officers ARE required to remain calm and civil in these situations. We should remain so, but they are required to act as such. As a result, the responsibility in terms of moderated behavior falls squarely on the shoulders of the police, not the citizen.
[quote]Sifu wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]Sifu wrote:
Let me start off by saying the cop was very wrong to shoot the man in the back and then plant evidence next to the body. But now that we have the dash cam video we also get to see the other side of this. Walter Scott did a dumb thing by getting out of his car and running.
This is a recurring theme with these incidents. Someone does something which gives the police a reason or excuse to impose their authority on them and they over react. The moral of the story is when having an encounter with the police remain calm, civil and orderly.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/09/us/south-carolina-police-shooting/[/quote]
Sounds to me like you’re saying the moral of the story is to remain calm and civil, or you’ll get fucking shot. If that’s the way encounters with the police go, then we need new police.[/quote]
No what I am saying is there are two sides to this. On the one hand Walter Scott did not deserve to get shot, he probably even didn’t deserve to get a beat down either.
On the other hand he is the one who chose to resist arrest which was the beginning of the chain of events that ended up with him getting killed.
This is something that keeps repeating. Someone chooses to flee and elude or resist arrest, which gets the cops excited and then something bad happens. The reason why is because of human nature. Even a good cop can get drawn into a situation where he does something that he may not have been predisposed to do.
I doubt that when Slager first stopped Scott he was planning to commit a cold blooded murder. If Scott had gone along quietly and cooperated I don’t think Slager would have shot him. [/quote]
If Slager had done his job, the guy wouldn’t have been shot regardless of his behavior. I just posted something in reference to your initial post, but I accidentally quoted the wrong person, so my points all reside in the post previous to this one. But I’ll make them again anyways.
The police have a responsibility, the citizen does not. Sure, this guy has a role in this whole thing, but in no way does his action warrant any sort of lethal force against him, period. You apparently take the view that he shouldn’t have run. I take the view that the police officer should not have shot him and that whether the guy ran or not is immaterial. The only action that led to this guy getting shot was Slager unloading 8 rounds at him.
I suppose you could make the argument that the victim’s actions are contributory negligence, but this isn’t quite analogous to, say, getting killed by a drunk driver because you failed to wear your seatbelt when he t-boned you at 50 mph.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]TooHuman wrote:
All that’s required for a cop to legally shoot you in the back when you’re running is that you have committed a felony.
[/quote]
Well, I think that’s horse shit.
If a guy breaks in my house, rapes my wife, and runs away I am not allowed to shoot him in the back. I would go to jail for murder, but a cop can use lethal force when a felony has allegedly occurred. How the fuck is that fair?
Last I checked the police don’t get to be judge, jury, and executioner.[/quote]
They do in judge dredd and now apparently in, nyc, oakland, cincy, fl, stl, & sc… time to police the police enough is enough…fleeing & resisting arest are both misdemeanors not felony that even result in lengthy prison terms much less death sentence. The suspect was fleeing a traffic vioation which is a municipal violation. Shooting suspects is suposed to be reserved for comision of a felony or felony warrent. It sure feels like the V for vendetta movie…I think as citizens this isnt what we want are taxs doing. Less military traing and swat bs & more conflict resolution & non lethal training. Everytime some guy punches or runs from a cop or tells a cop to fuck off they dont deserve a full clip. Its the judge & jurys job to decide punishment. This fuckin sux ass & im tired of seeing this shit
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]Sifu wrote:
Let me start off by saying the cop was very wrong to shoot the man in the back and then plant evidence next to the body. But now that we have the dash cam video we also get to see the other side of this. Walter Scott did a dumb thing by getting out of his car and running.
This is a recurring theme with these incidents. Someone does something which gives the police a reason or excuse to impose their authority on them and they over react. The moral of the story is when having an encounter with the police remain calm, civil and orderly.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/09/us/south-carolina-police-shooting/[/quote]
Sounds to me like you’re saying the moral of the story is to remain calm and civil, or you’ll get fucking shot. If that’s the way encounters with the police go, then we need new police.[/quote]
Exactly. I don’t think staying calm and civil is something everyone is going to do. Obviously people may run for a variety of reasons. Does that mean we make things easy by just killing them?
Shouldn’t shooting be reserved for when one’s life is in danger. I don’t see how anybody could watch that video (unless you know someone wanted to make a bunch of comments on it but not watch it) and think shooting was necessary. Motherfucker could barely move to begin with.
The calmness is very spooky. The cop doing the shooting seems as relaxed as possible. [/quote]
When a person gets arrested that can trigger flight or fight mechanisms in the brain. When that happens you can do something irrational and dangerous. That is why it is smart to stay as calm as possible and not try to raise the drama level.
With the cops something that can happen in a pursuit is they get tunnel vision. When that happens their field of view and the amount of information they are processing becomes very limited. That is why they are trained not to engage in high speed pursuits unless there is a real need to protect the public.
Tunnel vision would explain why Slager would explain why Slager did what he did and didn’t notice someone stood there filming him.
[quote]Sifu wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]Sifu wrote:
Let me start off by saying the cop was very wrong to shoot the man in the back and then plant evidence next to the body. But now that we have the dash cam video we also get to see the other side of this. Walter Scott did a dumb thing by getting out of his car and running.
This is a recurring theme with these incidents. Someone does something which gives the police a reason or excuse to impose their authority on them and they over react. The moral of the story is when having an encounter with the police remain calm, civil and orderly.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/09/us/south-carolina-police-shooting/[/quote]
Sounds to me like you’re saying the moral of the story is to remain calm and civil, or you’ll get fucking shot. If that’s the way encounters with the police go, then we need new police.[/quote]
Exactly. I don’t think staying calm and civil is something everyone is going to do. Obviously people may run for a variety of reasons. Does that mean we make things easy by just killing them?
Shouldn’t shooting be reserved for when one’s life is in danger. I don’t see how anybody could watch that video (unless you know someone wanted to make a bunch of comments on it but not watch it) and think shooting was necessary. Motherfucker could barely move to begin with.
The calmness is very spooky. The cop doing the shooting seems as relaxed as possible. [/quote]
When a person gets arrested that can trigger flight or fight mechanisms in the brain. When that happens you can do something irrational and dangerous. That is why it is smart to stay as calm as possible and not try to raise the drama level.
With the cops something that can happen in a pursuit is they get tunnel vision. When that happens their field of view and the amount of information they are processing becomes very limited. That is why they are trained not to engage in high speed pursuits unless there is a real need to protect the public.
Tunnel vision would explain why Slager would explain why Slager did what he did and didn’t notice someone stood there filming him. [/quote]
I am not required as a citizen to remain calm in such situations. The police officer, as part of his job, is required to basically not have tunnel vision. The citizen has no “job” to do, but the police officer does, and he did not do it.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]Sifu wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]Sifu wrote:
Let me start off by saying the cop was very wrong to shoot the man in the back and then plant evidence next to the body. But now that we have the dash cam video we also get to see the other side of this. Walter Scott did a dumb thing by getting out of his car and running.
This is a recurring theme with these incidents. Someone does something which gives the police a reason or excuse to impose their authority on them and they over react. The moral of the story is when having an encounter with the police remain calm, civil and orderly.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/09/us/south-carolina-police-shooting/[/quote]
Sounds to me like you’re saying the moral of the story is to remain calm and civil, or you’ll get fucking shot. If that’s the way encounters with the police go, then we need new police.[/quote]
Exactly. I don’t think staying calm and civil is something everyone is going to do. Obviously people may run for a variety of reasons. Does that mean we make things easy by just killing them?
Shouldn’t shooting be reserved for when one’s life is in danger. I don’t see how anybody could watch that video (unless you know someone wanted to make a bunch of comments on it but not watch it) and think shooting was necessary. Motherfucker could barely move to begin with.
The calmness is very spooky. The cop doing the shooting seems as relaxed as possible. [/quote]
When a person gets arrested that can trigger flight or fight mechanisms in the brain. When that happens you can do something irrational and dangerous. That is why it is smart to stay as calm as possible and not try to raise the drama level.
With the cops something that can happen in a pursuit is they get tunnel vision. When that happens their field of view and the amount of information they are processing becomes very limited. That is why they are trained not to engage in high speed pursuits unless there is a real need to protect the public.
Tunnel vision would explain why Slager would explain why Slager did what he did and didn’t notice someone stood there filming him. [/quote]
I am not required as a citizen to remain calm in such situations. The police officer, as part of his job, is required to basically not have tunnel vision. The citizen has no “job” to do, but the police officer does, and he did not do it. [/quote]
This is going to be a reply to your last three posts. I never once suggested or tried to imply that Slager was right to shoot Scott.
I think cops should conduct themselves as professionally as possible. But you are trying to rationalize stupidity. What Slager did was wrong, unprofessional and he could be executed for it. But all that still isn’t going to bring Scott back from the dead. Is it?
If Scott had quietly complied with Slager it probably would have saved his life.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]Sifu wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]Sifu wrote:
Let me start off by saying the cop was very wrong to shoot the man in the back and then plant evidence next to the body. But now that we have the dash cam video we also get to see the other side of this. Walter Scott did a dumb thing by getting out of his car and running.
This is a recurring theme with these incidents. Someone does something which gives the police a reason or excuse to impose their authority on them and they over react. The moral of the story is when having an encounter with the police remain calm, civil and orderly.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/09/us/south-carolina-police-shooting/[/quote]
Sounds to me like you’re saying the moral of the story is to remain calm and civil, or you’ll get fucking shot. If that’s the way encounters with the police go, then we need new police.[/quote]
Exactly. I don’t think staying calm and civil is something everyone is going to do. Obviously people may run for a variety of reasons. Does that mean we make things easy by just killing them?
Shouldn’t shooting be reserved for when one’s life is in danger. I don’t see how anybody could watch that video (unless you know someone wanted to make a bunch of comments on it but not watch it) and think shooting was necessary. Motherfucker could barely move to begin with.
The calmness is very spooky. The cop doing the shooting seems as relaxed as possible. [/quote]
When a person gets arrested that can trigger flight or fight mechanisms in the brain. When that happens you can do something irrational and dangerous. That is why it is smart to stay as calm as possible and not try to raise the drama level.
With the cops something that can happen in a pursuit is they get tunnel vision. When that happens their field of view and the amount of information they are processing becomes very limited. That is why they are trained not to engage in high speed pursuits unless there is a real need to protect the public.
Tunnel vision would explain why Slager would explain why Slager did what he did and didn’t notice someone stood there filming him. [/quote]
I am not required as a citizen to remain calm in such situations. The police officer, as part of his job, is required to basically not have tunnel vision. The citizen has no “job” to do, but the police officer does, and he did not do it. [/quote]
I don’t think that anyone believes the officer deserves to be employed as an officer any longer; however, there are factors that could possibly lead one to believe the incident falls short of murder. The guy’s job should not matter in criminal court, other than to show that he had the lawful power to stop the deceased’s vehicle, pursue the deceased when he ran, and attempt to take custody of the deceased.
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]Sifu wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]Sifu wrote:
Let me start off by saying the cop was very wrong to shoot the man in the back and then plant evidence next to the body. But now that we have the dash cam video we also get to see the other side of this. Walter Scott did a dumb thing by getting out of his car and running.
This is a recurring theme with these incidents. Someone does something which gives the police a reason or excuse to impose their authority on them and they over react. The moral of the story is when having an encounter with the police remain calm, civil and orderly.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/09/us/south-carolina-police-shooting/[/quote]
Sounds to me like you’re saying the moral of the story is to remain calm and civil, or you’ll get fucking shot. If that’s the way encounters with the police go, then we need new police.[/quote]
Exactly. I don’t think staying calm and civil is something everyone is going to do. Obviously people may run for a variety of reasons. Does that mean we make things easy by just killing them?
Shouldn’t shooting be reserved for when one’s life is in danger. I don’t see how anybody could watch that video (unless you know someone wanted to make a bunch of comments on it but not watch it) and think shooting was necessary. Motherfucker could barely move to begin with.
The calmness is very spooky. The cop doing the shooting seems as relaxed as possible. [/quote]
When a person gets arrested that can trigger flight or fight mechanisms in the brain. When that happens you can do something irrational and dangerous. That is why it is smart to stay as calm as possible and not try to raise the drama level.
With the cops something that can happen in a pursuit is they get tunnel vision. When that happens their field of view and the amount of information they are processing becomes very limited. That is why they are trained not to engage in high speed pursuits unless there is a real need to protect the public.
Tunnel vision would explain why Slager would explain why Slager did what he did and didn’t notice someone stood there filming him. [/quote]
I am not required as a citizen to remain calm in such situations. The police officer, as part of his job, is required to basically not have tunnel vision. The citizen has no “job” to do, but the police officer does, and he did not do it. [/quote]
I don’t think that anyone believes the officer deserves to be employed as an officer any longer; however, there are factors that could possibly lead one to believe the incident falls short of murder. The guy’s job should not matter in criminal court, other than to show that he had the lawful power to stop the deceased’s vehicle, pursue the deceased when he ran, and attempt to take custody of the deceased. [/quote]
Perhaps I am not making my point very well. His job may not matter in criminal court, but it does matter on some level. Yes, both sides have a part in this. But the police officer’s job is to serve and protect. A FAR higher standard is placed upon him than upon Walter Scott. While Scott’s actions are certainly a factor in this, Officer Slager is held to such a higher standard as to make any role that Scott has in this completely irrelevant.
That’s all I’m trying to say.
That whole video looks like it was almost staged. Any $$ on the whole thing being a hoax to strong arm us into having the feds oversee the local PDs?
[quote]beachguy498 wrote:
That whole video looks like it was almost staged. Any $$ on the whole thing being a hoax to strong arm us into having the feds oversee the local PDs?[/quote]
Cool. I am in for 35K (I need some tuition money). Do you need a paypal account or will you send me cash?
jnd
[quote]jnd wrote:
[quote]beachguy498 wrote:
That whole video looks like it was almost staged. Any $$ on the whole thing being a hoax to strong arm us into having the feds oversee the local PDs?[/quote]
Cool. I am in for 35K (I need some tuition money). Do you need a paypal account or will you send me cash?
jnd[/quote]
That’s some next level conspiracy shit right there.
[quote]beachguy498 wrote:
That whole video looks like it was almost staged. Any $$ on the whole thing being a hoax to strong arm us into having the feds oversee the local PDs?[/quote]
Be careful. I’m sure they are monitoring this conversation and we could be next.
[quote]H factor wrote:
The calmness is very spooky. The cop doing the shooting seems as relaxed as possible. [/quote]
It’s how they are trained. This is the conditioned response he has been trained to have.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
The calmness is very spooky. The cop doing the shooting seems as relaxed as possible. [/quote]
It’s how they are trained. This is the conditioned response he has been trained to have.
[/quote]
Perhaps. I just think it is spooky. I mean I can see the training to remain calm while shooting as obviously that increases accuracy. When I’m wound at the range I’m horrible.
The idea that he never moves quickly towards the man and just saunters about is what gets me. It’s like he’s out for a sunday stroll. I can’t imagine having that little of an emotional reaction.