This may be an odd question but since it’s absorbed through the skin could it affect tattoos in any way?
Bill, so how long before someone tries this with ground and filtered finaplix? Yeah i was around when we were all taking abdrosol, grinding up finaplix, mxing and filtering it…those that don’t know missed one ofthe best non-injectable preparations ever, i would assume the same or better results would be seen here?
Anyway just a thought, i was also one of the “long term steroid users” chosento participate in the MAG-10 trial, if i remember right they gave us like 8 weeks worth of MAG-10 for free, that kicked ass to say the least. These days like you, i don’t get much from steroid use other than CNS stimualation and bloat. So i pretty much stick to my HRT dose and hoping to get my doc to allow me to do GH at a replacement dose as well, still have to have tests done on IGF-1 levels. BTW off topic, any tips on how to minimize that on a blood test in hopes of obtaining my GH script??? Nice seeing you around again!
would it be a good idea to stack with Carbolin 19 or TRIBEX. also is this somthing that you should notice strength gains from or is it more for asthetics.
Studies?
What I’m unclear on is how something that only affects how cortisol reacts to certain tissues, can cause infertility or testicular shrinkage.
As well as increased libido.
Granted, I know that when you mess with one hormone it will typically cause a reaction to another hormone.
But, we’re not increasing or decreasing cortisol.
[quote]beebuddy wrote:
Mr. Roberts,
I am a VERY hairy man. After reading that the key is getting this stuff all over your body without rubbing it in, I am a bit concerned. Knowing this, what would you recommend? I’m not the metro-sexual type that shaves, but I am open to it. Other than that is rubbing it in that problematic?[/quote]
It is potentially a problem. Any that adheres to hair instead of reaching the skin is wasted, and someone certainly could have enough hair to block a lot of it.
As a suggestion instead of shaving, while not myself particularly hairy I use clippers to a length that’s fairly short but not to an odd-looking degree. Personally that’s just for what I think looks better, but if needed I’d guess that only being absolutely extremely hairy would win up being too much for good application if clipped short.
[quote]BeforeIforget wrote:
This may be an odd question but since it’s absorbed through the skin could it affect tattoos in any way?[/quote]
No problem there. There are no chemically reactive ingredients.
How would this work with someone who wears cologne? Just make sure your application of each are at different times? I ask because the instructions mentioned not using any lotions, creams or whatever… wouldn’t that apply to colognes?
Thanks; looks like an incredible product.
[quote]morepain wrote:
Bill, so how long before someone tries this with ground and filtered finaplix? Yeah i was around when we were all taking abdrosol, grinding up finaplix, mxing and filtering it…those that don’t know missed one ofthe best non-injectable preparations ever, i would assume the same or better results would be seen here?
Anyway just a thought, i was also one of the “long term steroid users” chosento participate in the MAG-10 trial, if i remember right they gave us like 8 weeks worth of MAG-10 for free, that kicked ass to say the least. These days like you, i don’t get much from steroid use other than CNS stimualation and bloat. So i pretty much stick to my HRT dose and hoping to get my doc to allow me to do GH at a replacement dose as well, still have to have tests done on IGF-1 levels. BTW off topic, any tips on how to minimize that on a blood test in hopes of obtaining my GH script??? Nice seeing you around again![/quote]
Thanks, morepain!
As always, topically applied Fina is a great way to go and gives good value for the money, though not as good as self-made injectable. Which really is not too hard to do at all.
It really would not be necessary to use the 11-T solution for making it. The sprayer is ideal for the purpose, whereas sprayers I’ve found in products sold at the drugstore or supermarket are not, but that would require only a used 11-T bottle or an old Androsol bottle.
You would want to use 99% isopropyl alcohol. While the 11-T has an added penetration enhancer, I don’t think that’s necessary with trenbolone acetate. Well it certainly isn’t necessary, that wasn’t the right way to put it, but the point is I’m not sure with the trenbolone acetate it would help at all, as there are some differing physical properties.
I preferred 25 mg/mL in the case of Finasol.
The biggest issue is the annoyance of the filler tending to clog things up. Making a solution well in advance and letting it settle helps with that.
I haven’t evaluated stacking effects with 11-T vs differing anabolic steroids. It’s entirely possible and I think not at all unlikely that straight Fina would be the more economical way to go for any given effect.
In the case of mixing Fina with Androsol, there was a synergistic tacking benefit due to the properties of 4-AD. But I don’t know that that’s true with 11-T.
That’s a very interesting question on how to minimize IGF-1 readings. I don’t know, but I’ll try to think about it and look into it.
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
What I’m unclear on is how something that only affects how cortisol reacts to certain tissues, can cause infertility or testicular shrinkage.
As well as increased libido.
Granted, I know that when you mess with one hormone it will typically cause a reaction to another hormone.
But, we’re not increasing or decreasing cortisol.
[/quote]
Because there is also some androgenic effect, though weak, and therefore there is probably some LH inhibition.
Over extended periods of time, though not in just 2 weeks, LH inhibition can have the effects you mention. Thus there has to be a warning, even though when used as per directions those are non-issues.
[quote]thirdgemini wrote:
How would this work with someone who wears cologne? Just make application of each are at different times? I ask because the instructions mentioned not using any lotions, creams or whatever… wouldn’t that apply to colognes?
Thanks; looks like an incredible product. [/quote]
It should be no problem to apply to areas where cologne was not used. Or if cologne was used at any sensible amount of application per square inch, after it had dried I doubt it would be a problem having the 11-T following it.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
thirdgemini wrote:
How would this work with someone who wears cologne? Just make application of each are at different times? I ask because the instructions mentioned not using any lotions, creams or whatever… wouldn’t that apply to colognes?
Thanks; looks like an incredible product.
It should be no problem to apply to areas where cologne was not used. Or if cologne was used at any sensible amount of application per square inch, after it had dried I doubt it would be a problem having the 11-T following it.
[/quote]
Do we have any clinical studies to review Bill Roberts?
[quote]benmoore wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
thirdgemini wrote:
How would this work with someone who wears cologne? Just make application of each are at different times? I ask because the instructions mentioned not using any lotions, creams or whatever… wouldn’t that apply to colognes?
Thanks; looks like an incredible product.
It should be no problem to apply to areas where cologne was not used. Or if cologne was used at any sensible amount of application per square inch, after it had dried I doubt it would be a problem having the 11-T following it.
Do we have any clinical studies to review Bill Roberts?[/quote]
My guess would be no. If you’re that worried about its effectiveness, wait for the “2nd batch” and look for people’s reviews of it :shrug:
2 Questions:
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How would this product work with someone who is on HRT (Androgel)? Would you suggest using it at all, and if so, would you change any recommendations?
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As a fighter, I’m constantly concerned about my weight, and making weight. Obviously, the change of increased fat loss is attractive, but would this cause a lot of weight gain that I’d have trouble cutting for a fight? Or, looking at it another way, if I was constantly having to cut more because of increased weight gain, would it even be worth it? Or, more simple, would you recommend this for fighters at all?
Thanks.
[quote]benmoore wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
Do we have any clinical studies to review Bill Roberts?[/quote]
No.
Sometimes science is an odd thing. One wouldn’t have thought that Biotest Laboratories would be the ones to discover, somewhere around 1999 or 2000 or whenever it was, that in man blood levels of 4-AD are comparable to those of testosterone: in other words, there’s a ton of it. Yet it was unstudied, and scientists simply did not know there was so much of it.
Patrick Arnold informed us that blood levels of 17-ADR (which he calls 11-KT, same thing) in man are, if I recall correctly, something like 1/5 of testosterone levels. In other words, there’s a whole lot of it.
Yet medical science has studied it no more than they have 4-AD.
With Androsol we paid to have a formal study done to determine blood levels and the time course of blood levels of 4-AD. While that would be nice with 11-T and, if the world were ideal, would have been the case here too, it doesn’t make sense to do that when quite possibly doing only a single fairly small run of this. It also would have delayed introduction by months.
Your guarantee, so to speak, of efficacy is not a clinical study – good luck finding that for that matter on most anabolic steroids, a differing family of hormones, they are effective in performance enhancement but not only do most have no studies showing it, there are many studies that have been cited to “prove” not effective. How did that happen? Because dose was inadequate and/or training and/or nutrition protocols may have been inadequate and/or statistical noise obscured actual results yielding “insignificance.”
As I was saying, your guarantee is not a medical study, but money back if you’re not satisfied. The proof that is in fact feasible is the actual putting to the test.
Androgel doesn’t deliver much testosterone so there’s still a lot of room for improvement. I wouldn’t consider it an important factor with regard to use of 11-T.
Your question on effect on weight and optimal weight class for you is a very interesting and obviously important one that I can’t answer. It is a complicated issue, depending on individual factors even with things that have been used for a long time.
As an example: maybe not now, I don’t know, but some years back Halotestin was very popular with elite level bicyclists. Why? Not strength increase, but remarkable improvement in work output in the latter part of races. Or with any anabolic steroid (again, but I need to be clear on it, a differing family of hormones but useful as an example) work capacity with weighlifting is much improved. Is there a useful such effect on, for example, boxers that have to go 12 rounds? I don’t know. Is the time involved in martial arts matches long enough for this effect to kick in? I don’t know.
On strength, I don’t think it’s correct to say that an individual who would naturally be a lighter weight, but thanks to anabolic steroids is a heavier weight is for that reason going to be stronger than a competitor who is naturally that same size.
On the maximum rate of work that can be achieved, which has a lot to do with VO2max, becoming larger than one’s natural size doesn’t give the bigger heart and lungs that tend to go along with naturally being that bigger size.
For example, as a personal guess I tend to think the reason Evander Holyfield tended to run out of gas as a heavyweight while competitors who probably really were not as well-trained and were certainly much fatter, such as Riddick Bowe, could outwork him in the later rounds. The naturally bigger guys had the heart and lungs of a big guy: Holyfield did not. Just my guess.
It does seem to me overall, at least in boxing, that those who have fought at the top level in multiple divisions were the most dominant at the lighter weights.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Androgel doesn’t deliver much testosterone so there’s still a lot of room for improvement. I wouldn’t consider it an important factor with regard to use of 11-T.
Your question on effect on weight and optimal weight class for you is a very interesting and obviously important one that I can’t answer. It is a complicated issue, depending on individual factors even with things that have been used for a long time.
As an example: maybe not now, I don’t know, but some years back Halotestin was very popular with elite level bicyclists. Why? Not strength increase, but remarkable improvement in work output in the latter part of races. Or with any anabolic steroid (again, but I need to be clear on it, a differing family of hormones but useful as an example) work capacity with weighlifting is much improved. Is there a useful such effect on, for example, boxers that have to go 12 rounds? I don’t know. Is the time involved in martial arts matches long enough for this effect to kick in? I don’t know.
On strength, I don’t think it’s correct to say that an individual who would naturally be a lighter weight, but thanks to anabolic steroids is a heavier weight is for that reason going to be stronger than a competitor who is naturally that same size.
On the maximum rate of work that can be achieved, which has a lot to do with VO2max, becoming larger than one’s natural size doesn’t give the bigger heart and lungs that tend to go along with naturally being that bigger size.
For example, as a personal guess I tend to think the reason Evander Holyfield tended to run out of gas as a heavyweight while competitors who probably really were not as well-trained and were certainly much fatter, such as Riddick Bowe, could outwork him in the later rounds. The naturally bigger guys had the heart and lungs of a big guy: Holyfield did not. Just my guess.
It does seem to me overall, at least in boxing, that those who have fought at the top level in multiple divisions were the most dominant at the lighter weights.[/quote]
Really good answer, thank you. I know that I am comfortable at my current weight class not so much because of strength or a lack thereof, but because I am fairly short for my current weight class and I’d be a bandleader in the lollipop kids in the next higher one.
I should have been more clear and just asked, will 11-T cause much weight gain? I’m thinking that if it doesn’t cause a real significant amount of weight gain through mechanisms other than muscle gain (water rentention), then the possibility of increased fat loss and decreased muscle loss during times of very hard training and cutting are very appealling. However, if I am going to gain a bunch of weight that is water, then that’s going to be a real pain in the ass to cut come competition time.
The next time you introduce a new product could you mention first that it is not available outside the USA? You gave me blue balls…
So what kind of weight gain might we expect?
Bill, first I wanted to tell you I’ve been a fan of Biotest products for quite some time. I’ve always been impressed with your innovation and the support you provide customers in this forum. I tried MAG-10 and 4-AD-EC and really look forward to getting 11-T. But I just had 2 questions:
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Would 11-T be as effective as 4-AD-EC was during cutting cycles? If so, what are the other Biotest products you’d recommend to stack with it for a cutting cycle?
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When I’d cycle off MAG-10 or 4-AD-EC, I’d feel down–nothing horrible, but definitely mildly depressed. Will cycling off 11-T yield the same result? If so, what can I do to mitigate that?
Thanks and congratulations on 11-T.