[quote]BeforeIforget wrote:
So to avoid any loses would it be better to wake up, train, shower and spray, then shower and spray 10-12 hours later. [/quote]
If you like to shower twice a day. If not, then there’s no need, in terms of the application, to shower prior to the second application. Though the skin certainly should be dry.
Yes, that’s equally well an option.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
actionjeff, either I confused myself or you corrected your post (which is cool) to make the question a general one of time between cycles. Whereas my reply was tailored to what I thought was asked: how long between if application was only in the morning.
If 2x/day, then at least 2 weeks. This gives enough time with normal LH levels that any amount of cycles will still leave testicular atrophy a non-issue.[/quote]
nah I realized I could phrase the question better, didn’t think you’d be so fast to respond!
thanks a lot for the detailed response, that’s what I wanted to know
What are the estrogenic affects after using 11-T? Do you need to Take TRIBEX and REZ-V so not to have a gyno inflated E rebound?
Tim, every time you release a new cutting edge product that isn’t shipped to Canada, a puppy dies.
Would it be best to apply in the front of the body, or both the back/front. In the application sheet pdf file it says “you receive the greatest effect from 11-T�?� when you cover the widest area of skin possible” and right below it shows areas in blue (front and back).
I’m assuming to get the best affects you will need someone to spray your back for you with this? Or could you possibly be fine with spraying your front and be perfectly good to go?
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
HD8 wrote:
So what is reccomended one or two servings?
I am dieting right now and would like a brief on when to use the 2 servings per day vs the once per day
Thanks in advance
The value of using only once per day is if:
There’s an intent to go an extended period of time rather than follow the label instructions and limit use to 2 weeks on then at least 2 weeks off,
It’s possible but not known that in a dieting situation, if only a given amount of 11-T will be purchased, that perhaps using half the dose for twice as many weeks may give more total benefit.
Other than this, double dose will be more effective.[/quote]
So if I use half a dose of 11-T with HOT-ROX Extreme for 6 weeks then would I just use Biotest PCT(Carbolin 19, Alpha Male).
Is that OK?
Is 6 weeks too long at half the maximum dose?
Thanks Bill appreciate the help
[quote]actionjeff wrote:
thanks a lot for the detailed response, that’s what I wanted to know[/quote]
Sure thing! 
[quote]MISCONCEPTION wrote:
What are the estrogenic affects after using 11-T? Do you need to Take TRIBEX and REZ-V so not to have a gyno inflated E rebound?[/quote]
Estogenic rebound doesn’t occur with cycles that don’t themselves contribute to estrogen – for example, there are no issues of abnormally high estrogen levels after a Primo or Winstrol/only (or both of those) cycle, nor were there with Androsol or MAG-10 which were also in this same situation – and 11-T does not contribute to estrogen. No problem here.
Hey Bill. Although this product is a pro-hormone and not a steroid, would there be any health benefit to taking milk thistle and/or Q10 while on a cycle of 11-T?
[quote]paugel wrote:
Would it be best to apply in the front of the body, or both the back/front. In the application sheet pdf file it says “you receive the greatest effect from 11-T�?� when you cover the widest area of skin possible” and right below it shows areas in blue (front and back).
I’m assuming to get the best affects you will need someone to spray your back for you with this? Or could you possibly be fine with spraying your front and be perfectly good to go?[/quote]
There’s a very slight bit of trick to doing it but it’s not at all too hard to spray the back.
There is health benefit at all times to those two supplements.
By the way, on the CoQ10 I’d look into one of the newer ubiqionol (as opposed to the standard ubiquinone) supplements, as the evidence seems very good that the bioavailability is much better. The two brands I know of are Life Extension Foundation and Vitamin Shoppe, but there may be more.
Since the bioavailality is better than standard CoQ10, the 50 mg dose is probably enough (as a personal guess.)
[quote]HD8 wrote:
So if I use half a dose of 11-T with HOT-ROX Extreme for 6 weeks then would I just use Biotest PCT(Carbolin 19, Alpha Male).
Is that OK?
Is 6 weeks too long at half the maximum dose?
Thanks Bill appreciate the help
[/quote]
If the means of accomplishing the half-dose is morning-only application, that should not be too long.
[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
It was asked a few posts ago, but i’m a guy who has considerable amount of hair on my body. Would the spray have to be rubbed in to make sure it gets past the hair and onto the skin?[/quote]
No, if an area has so much hair that the eye can see that a substantial amount of the product is adhering to the hair, rubbing in still would I think still not achieve the desired effect. If nothing else – but it’s not the only reason – the vast (in this case) surface area of the hair will still continue to hold the product. Largely this would accomplish only spreading it more even through the hair, rather than getting it off the hair and to the skin.
Oh, as a correction to my saying CoQ10 “always” has health benefits: I doubt for example that there is much, and almost certainly not noticeable, benefit to say a teenager. The supplement would probably be a waste of money for him or her at that time.
At what age it starts becoming useful I don’t know. I wouldn’t be surprised if there is some long term benefit to starting for example sometime in the 20s but don’t know it for a fact. The importance of it increases with age.
It seems that you guys (possibly for legal reasons) are skirting the “what are the typical gains to be expected” question. Bill, I saw your “personal” response to this question but there must be internal users at Biotest that have anecdotal feedback (who aren’t at the point of deminishing returns with their body comp).
I realize that it’s a generalization answer and really depends on the user (e.g. training level, previous AAS experience,etc.); however, isn’t there a ballpark number that can be thrown out as was done with releases of similar products? BTW, I’m not talking about water gain that will be lost. Just bodycomp expectations relative to a tpical muscle gaining (500 cal over maintenance) routine/diet.
Thanks!
Bill, Since 11-T is considered an adrenosterone hormone regulated out of the adrenal gland, what are the potential side effects for adrenal fatigue? I would assume that the adrenal system would be fatigued after a cycle of 11-T due to an increased overlaod. Also, if there is fatigue in the adrenal system, could one benefit from an herbal adrenal support supplement to counter-act the side effects. Thanks
Was there ever a ballpark number for other Biotest supplements? I suppose there might have been an example reasonable minimum expectation given for MAG-10, though I don’t recall specifically, but generally I believe not and possibly there are just no examples other than that if even that.
I could be wrong, there is such a vast amount of material published on the site that most certainly I haven’t read anything like all of it, but I certainly hadn’t thought we typically did that.
I do think there’s a real problem even the general approach of having “expectations” except in certain cases where something is overwhelmingly effective, in which case individual variation won’t be enough to result in not meeting some expectation that’s deliberately set well below the average.
For example – and again, not that 11-T is an anabolic steroid – but I cannot say there is an expectation for what bodycomp changes should occur with say 250 mg/week of injected testosterone. Some will get quite little off it. Others will do amazingly.
If it’s invalid to have a bodycomp expectation for 250 mg/week testosterone, is it necessarily valid to claim one should expect at least a given bodycomp change outcome with 11-T?
It’s possible it is valid to do so but if so that will only be apparent with more time and enough users to have a good understanding of what the degree of variability may be.
The reason I think I have never given such figures, unless maybe I did with MAG-10 with deliberate underestimation, is that I really think it’s invalid. There’s nothing worse than, say, the Women’s Week (a supermarket checkout-line magazine) approach where every single week, just doing this one thing WILL cause 7 or 9 lb or other specified figure of fat loss per week.
(Since just about everything they recommend for fat loss is things I’d already adopted, I should be losing at least 100 lb of fat per week! Yet somehow I still easily put on fat even doing probably every single one of them! An example of how naming how many pounds of change can be expected per week is generally not valid and if anything, it should usually be worrying to see someone do it.)
[quote]W8 LOGIC wrote:
Bill, Since 11-T is considered an adrenosterone hormone regulated out of the adrenal gland, what are the potential side effects for adrenal fatigue? I would assume that the adrenal system would be fatigued after a cycle of 11-T due to an increased overlaod. [/quote]
There isn’t any added load to the adrenal system. Being an adrenosteroid has to do with its structure (having the 11-keto substituent) and its biological origin, not that it affects adrenoreceptors. And supplying it doesn’t add any load to the adrenals themselves.
Bill, I completely understand your perspective. Thanks for taking time to respond. cheers
G
Bill,
Is this going to be better used as a muscle building product…or more of a muscle holding onto product? Noting the effect on cortisol does this have the capabilitie to build new muscle or just excelling at keeping the muscle you already have?
Also since I am doing the radical diet…(low car mod fat mod protein) Would this be a good supplement since really there is nothing to cause the glycogen storing effect to take place except a carb up day?