“Our Country won’t go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won’t
be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our
women and breed a hardier race!”
-Lt. Gen. Lewis B. “Chesty” Puller, USMC
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
MaloVerde wrote:
Good post? Are you kidding? Explain how that is in perspective.
A man beats his dog, but you say, well I’ve seen a man beat his wife and that’s much worse.
No one was being beaten. Poor analogy.
This thread has nothing to do with the “History of Warfare” It has to do with teasing a bunch of kids. It would have been a shitty thing to do even if it wasn’t soldiers.
Of course what happens in war has something to do with it.
Normal rules of civilization do not apply in a war zone.
These guys acted like dicks. They were stupid for filming it and letting it out of their control. People act like dicks every day. Big deal. [/quote]
It’s not a poor analogy. It’s right in line with the one PGJ wrote.
These soldiers didn’t Fire-bomb anyone so they should get a pass on ill thought out behavior?
These soldiers would still be called dicks if they were in plain clothes and in the back of a pick-up truck here in the US of A. Same thing applies, they should be reprimanded. It would be good for them.
[quote]MaloVerde wrote:
BH6 wrote:
We used to throw the small instant coffee packets from our MREs to kids in Somalia. They would think it was candy and would eat it. The look on thier faces was priceless.
We would throw water bottles into a crowd and watch the kids fight over them.
My Gunny caught us doing that stuff and he corrected us swiftly and with great vengence.
It was all in all a pretty f*cked up thing to do. We never had enough stuff to give to every kid, and most of the time the older kids would wait off to the side and kick the crap out of the little ones as soon as we were leaving.
I’m not too proud of doing that stuff, but at the time we didn’t give much thought to the idea of winning hearts and minds.
We were pretty damn tired of getting rocks thrown at us and getting sniped at, so it seemed perfectly reasonable to screw with the kids. That doesn’t make it right, but I understand the mindset these soldiers are in.
These guys in Iraq are facing much worse than we did in Mogadishu. As an officer now, I would be administering a swift kick in the ass to these guys for screwing with the kids. Sometimes we are doomed to learn the same lessons over and over again.
I’m glad you shared this, BH6. What these soldiers did was immature, but a lot of people forget that our boys fighting over there are just that, BOYS. 18, 19 and 20 year olds.
[/quote]
I wasn’t going to comment on this thread, only read. But these two comments gave me goosebumps and a chill up my spine. Anyone older than 30 probably thinks about how the 18, 19 and 20 year old soldiers and marines fighting in the war are just kids…I’m sure a lot of 30-somethings and older can relate when I say that at that young age, I was entirely clueless about life, and wonder how those young kids ever cope with the emotional trauma of war, seeing people you know killed, having to kill people, the very high possibility of dying a violent death being a constant threat 24-7???
[quote]PGJ wrote:
AdamC wrote:
And to be fair, it’s very debatable as to whether you should have even invaded.
“YOU”??? I believe England had a small part in this as well.
[/quote]
Yes you are correct
[quote]chinadoll wrote:
I wasn’t going to comment on this thread, only read. But these two comments gave me goosebumps and a chill up my spine. Anyone older than 30 probably thinks about how the 18, 19 and 20 year old soldiers and marines fighting in the war are just kids…I’m sure a lot of 30-somethings and older can relate when I say that at that young age, I was entirely clueless about life, and wonder how those young kids ever cope with the emotional trauma of war, seeing people you know killed, having to kill people, the very high possibility of dying a violent death being a constant threat 24-7???
[/quote]
Exactly. These are very young guys. Teasing a kid was stupid on their part and I would bust their chops for it but in the overall scheme of things it is a minor offense.
We had a few vehicles stopped at an intersection in Mogadishu when we had a little boy run into the middle of our perimeter holding an undetonated mortar round by the fins. The guys on security aimed in on the kid, but none of us pulled the trigger. We wouldn’t have been in the wrong to shoot the kid, at least according the rules of engagement we were operating under at the time. The kid dropped the round (on its nose) and we all figured we were going to get blown up.
The kid was crying, he probably didn’t know what he was doing. The round hit the deck, didn’t explode, and the little boy ran off. We didn’t pursue him. It turned out that using kids to deliver explosives (usually a grenade or a mortar round) was a common tactic in the Mahdi Army in Mogadishu.
The moral of the story is that war sucks, it sucks even more if you have to grow up in one. Screwing with little kids isn’t the most terrible thing a Soldier or Marine could do. It isn’t right either, although you usually don’t get any perspective on it until you are a little older or have kids yourself. It isn’t illegal, it isn’t a war crime, it is just being an asshole.
That was some good motivation from Chesty Puller by the way.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
chinadoll wrote:
I wasn’t going to comment on this thread, only read. But these two comments gave me goosebumps and a chill up my spine. Anyone older than 30 probably thinks about how the 18, 19 and 20 year old soldiers and marines fighting in the war are just kids…I’m sure a lot of 30-somethings and older can relate when I say that at that young age, I was entirely clueless about life, and wonder how those young kids ever cope with the emotional trauma of war, seeing people you know killed, having to kill people, the very high possibility of dying a violent death being a constant threat 24-7???
Exactly. These are very young guys. Teasing a kid was stupid on their part and I would bust their chops for it but in the overall scheme of things it is a minor offense.[/quote]
Yep! If I saw these guys doing this and I was in charge, a simple “knock it off” would suffice perhaps followed by a quick hip-pocket class on winning hearts and minds and “let’s not forget what we represent”.
I wonder how many of the bleeding-heart critics here were perfect little gentlemen as teenagers.
[quote]PGJ wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
chinadoll wrote:
I wasn’t going to comment on this thread, only read. But these two comments gave me goosebumps and a chill up my spine. Anyone older than 30 probably thinks about how the 18, 19 and 20 year old soldiers and marines fighting in the war are just kids…I’m sure a lot of 30-somethings and older can relate when I say that at that young age, I was entirely clueless about life, and wonder how those young kids ever cope with the emotional trauma of war, seeing people you know killed, having to kill people, the very high possibility of dying a violent death being a constant threat 24-7???
Exactly. These are very young guys. Teasing a kid was stupid on their part and I would bust their chops for it but in the overall scheme of things it is a minor offense.
Yep! If I saw these guys doing this and I was in charge, a simple “knock it off” would suffice perhaps followed by a quick hip-pocket class on winning hearts and minds and “let’s not forget what we represent”.
I wonder how many of the bleeding-heart critics here were perfect little gentlemen as teenagers.
[/quote]
Just incase if you missed it I didnt say send them home. Give them a hefty slap on the wrists and telling them “let’s not forget what we represent.” Thats would be good. Something that would make sure they wouldnt be so stupid again.
[quote]PGJ wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
chinadoll wrote:
I wasn’t going to comment on this thread, only read. But these two comments gave me goosebumps and a chill up my spine. Anyone older than 30 probably thinks about how the 18, 19 and 20 year old soldiers and marines fighting in the war are just kids…I’m sure a lot of 30-somethings and older can relate when I say that at that young age, I was entirely clueless about life, and wonder how those young kids ever cope with the emotional trauma of war, seeing people you know killed, having to kill people, the very high possibility of dying a violent death being a constant threat 24-7???
Exactly. These are very young guys. Teasing a kid was stupid on their part and I would bust their chops for it but in the overall scheme of things it is a minor offense.
Yep! If I saw these guys doing this and I was in charge, a simple “knock it off” would suffice perhaps followed by a quick hip-pocket class on winning hearts and minds and “let’s not forget what we represent”. [/quote]
Agreed all around.
Minus this part. I don’t think anyone on the thread insinuated that theses soldiers needed more than a reprimand or claimed perfection as a youngster.
Here’s an Islamic video messing with our troops. Compare it to the vid of soldiers teasing children.
there’s your fucking perspective.
[quote]kane101nod wrote:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cfcb67c129
Here’s an Islamic video messing with our troops. Compare it to the vid of soldiers teasing children.
there’s your fucking perspective. [/quote]
I’m sure it was children that were pulling the triggers in those videos. Probably the very ones the soldiers were teasing.
You are a super fucking sleuth.
[quote]MaloVerde wrote:
I’m sure it was children that were pulling the triggers in those videos. Probably the very ones the soldiers were teasing.
You are a super fucking sleuth.
[/quote]
HAHAHAHA!
[quote]AdamC wrote:
five-twelve wrote:
who really gives a shit about this vid. I could care less.
If I had it my way that fucking place would be turned into glass. Muslims know nothing but hate, vengence, and murder. Islam is a religion of peace? Give me a fucking break. The only good thing going on right now in Iraq is they are killing each other now. Maybe they will do us a favor and just kill themselves in one mass suicide bomb.
If we where serious about winning this war we would withdraw all of our troops and drop a big fucking A bomb right on them and call it game, set, match. This shit where we have to play by there rules is bull-shit. Whats the point on having all of these expensive weapons if we are not going to use them.
Do you personally know any muslims?
Just because there are a lot of wack job muslims you dont nuke a whole fucking country. There are a lot of good muslims in the world just like there are a lot of good christians, atheists and whatever.
And to be fair, it’s very debatable as to whether you should have even invaded.
[/quote]
I agree the war is very debatable whether we should have even gone. This is what pisses me off. We get ourselves into these bull-shit battles, Mog., Vietnam, Iraq. And the problem is none of them was a direct threat to the U.S. So we fight these police wars and get rapped. I mean would you like it if some foriegn country came in and tried to police you. Probably not. If we really where fighting a war, we would have leveled that place then built it back up into a legite country.
War is not war anymore its the asshole curling in a squat rack and no one saying get the fuck out!
[quote]MaloVerde wrote:
I’m sure it was children that were pulling the triggers in those videos. Probably the very ones the soldiers were teasing.
You are a super fucking sleuth.
[/quote]
HAWHAWHAW!! you are so witty malo! I can’t believe you picked up on that!
It seems you missed the point of the video. The purpose of the video was to show one particularly horrible aspect of the war, and to demonstrate one of the stresses our troops undergo every time they step outside.
The “perspective” is that soldiers ‘teasing’ kids with water, and eventually giving it to them anyway, is completely unimportant in the larger scheme of things when compared with something like that sniper video, not that those soldiers dying is the direct result of the kids. Where did you even get that? Of course you were being sarcastic, but did you honestly think anyone actually thought that it was the kids’ fault?
$.05 just because…
I just got back from Iraq (like days ago… not weeks or months). I am a platoon leader of those type vehicles depicted and saw on occasion my soldiers doing that type of stupid crap. I would tell their squad leader (an NCO, because they run shit) to fix it and he would. That is likely what happened here. That was the last vehicle in a convoy… which ALWAYS has kids running after it, begging for chocolate, money, soccer balls, water and anything else. I was in Baghdad and Mosul to name a few places over the last 16 months and it is not that the kids are starving or anything like that, we (as a military) have taught these kids that begging is the way to get things. For that manner we have taught the adult civil and military leaders that “begging” the coalition is the way to get more money for their different projects (after they generally take their % cut for themselves), instead of finding creative ways to finance and/or get things done on their own. Were those two soldiers wrong? Yes, wrong for being stupid and stupid for filming it (not to mention the posting it on the internet… another story is how many soldiers get in trouble for YouTube and MySpace crap). Do they deserve PUNISHMENT… probably not. As an officer or NCO if you make the on the spot correction that is enough… soldiers usually do not like to disappoint their leadership.
Speaking of kids… after Ramadan (the muslim holy month) Al Qadeia and others were giving their kids realistic looking toy guns and having them play with the guns by pointing at us on patrol trying to get us to shoot a kid for the bad press… we didn’t, but what dickheads to put their own kids in jeapordy like that.
If this video truly offends you you really need to move to France or something like that. It is not the image we like to portray, as a leader if I saw it I would stop it, but I can think of many other things to focus my attention on… like bringing your sons, brothers and neighbors home alive and in one piece.
Okay, rant over… flame on… but maybe you could put all that anger over this video into motivation and take your ass to the gym!
[quote]jmarshburn wrote:
$.05 just because…
I just got back from Iraq (like days ago… not weeks or months). I am a platoon leader of those type vehicles depicted and saw on occasion my soldiers doing that type of stupid crap. I would tell their squad leader (an NCO, because they run shit) to fix it and he would. That is likely what happened here. That was the last vehicle in a convoy… which ALWAYS has kids running after it, begging for chocolate, money, soccer balls, water and anything else. I was in Baghdad and Mosul to name a few places over the last 16 months and it is not that the kids are starving or anything like that, we (as a military) have taught these kids that begging is the way to get things. For that manner we have taught the adult civil and military leaders that “begging” the coalition is the way to get more money for their different projects (after they generally take their % cut for themselves), instead of finding creative ways to finance and/or get things done on their own. Were those two soldiers wrong? Yes, wrong for being stupid and stupid for filming it (not to mention the posting it on the internet… another story is how many soldiers get in trouble for YouTube and MySpace crap). Do they deserve PUNISHMENT… probably not. As an officer or NCO if you make the on the spot correction that is enough… soldiers usually do not like to disappoint their leadership.
Speaking of kids… after Ramadan (the muslim holy month) Al Qadeia and others were giving their kids realistic looking toy guns and having them play with the guns by pointing at us on patrol trying to get us to shoot a kid for the bad press… we didn’t, but what dickheads to put their own kids in jeapordy like that.
If this video truly offends you you really need to move to France or something like that. It is not the image we like to portray, as a leader if I saw it I would stop it, but I can think of many other things to focus my attention on… like bringing your sons, brothers and neighbors home alive and in one piece.
Okay, rant over… flame on… but maybe you could put all that anger over this video into motivation and take your ass to the gym![/quote]
POST!
mike
[quote]jmarshburn wrote:
$.05 just because…
I just got back from Iraq (like days ago… not weeks or months). I am a platoon leader of those type vehicles depicted and saw on occasion my soldiers doing that type of stupid crap. I would tell their squad leader (an NCO, because they run shit) to fix it and he would. That is likely what happened here. That was the last vehicle in a convoy… which ALWAYS has kids running after it, begging for chocolate, money, soccer balls, water and anything else. I was in Baghdad and Mosul to name a few places over the last 16 months and it is not that the kids are starving or anything like that, we (as a military) have taught these kids that begging is the way to get things. For that manner we have taught the adult civil and military leaders that “begging” the coalition is the way to get more money for their different projects (after they generally take their % cut for themselves), instead of finding creative ways to finance and/or get things done on their own. Were those two soldiers wrong? Yes, wrong for being stupid and stupid for filming it (not to mention the posting it on the internet… another story is how many soldiers get in trouble for YouTube and MySpace crap). Do they deserve PUNISHMENT… probably not. As an officer or NCO if you make the on the spot correction that is enough… soldiers usually do not like to disappoint their leadership.
Speaking of kids… after Ramadan (the muslim holy month) Al Qadeia and others were giving their kids realistic looking toy guns and having them play with the guns by pointing at us on patrol trying to get us to shoot a kid for the bad press… we didn’t, but what dickheads to put their own kids in jeapordy like that.
If this video truly offends you you really need to move to France or something like that. It is not the image we like to portray, as a leader if I saw it I would stop it, but I can think of many other things to focus my attention on… like bringing your sons, brothers and neighbors home alive and in one piece.
Okay, rant over… flame on… but maybe you could put all that anger over this video into motivation and take your ass to the gym![/quote]
Thanks for the post and what you did over there.
PGA I often wonder how you got the time to alway’s surf the net and post all these thing’s from you tube and other sites ?? Shit I wish I had this much time in a day to do so.
[quote]EMTERIC wrote:
PGA I often wonder how you got the time to alway’s surf the net and post all these thing’s from you tube and other sites ?? Shit I wish I had this much time in a day to do so.
[/quote]
I work on the computer all day. I’ve been at the same job for 14 years, since I was 17. Its the only way I can keep myself from committing suicide from bordeom from a boring job. Hence in school again to change careers.
[quote]jmarshburn wrote:
$.05 just because…
I just got back from Iraq (like days ago… not weeks or months). I am a platoon leader of those type vehicles depicted and saw on occasion my soldiers doing that type of stupid crap. I would tell their squad leader (an NCO, because they run shit) to fix it and he would. That is likely what happened here. That was the last vehicle in a convoy… which ALWAYS has kids running after it, begging for chocolate, money, soccer balls, water and anything else. I was in Baghdad and Mosul to name a few places over the last 16 months and it is not that the kids are starving or anything like that, we (as a military) have taught these kids that begging is the way to get things. For that manner we have taught the adult civil and military leaders that “begging” the coalition is the way to get more money for their different projects (after they generally take their % cut for themselves), instead of finding creative ways to finance and/or get things done on their own. Were those two soldiers wrong? Yes, wrong for being stupid and stupid for filming it (not to mention the posting it on the internet… another story is how many soldiers get in trouble for YouTube and MySpace crap). Do they deserve PUNISHMENT… probably not. As an officer or NCO if you make the on the spot correction that is enough… soldiers usually do not like to disappoint their leadership.
Speaking of kids… after Ramadan (the muslim holy month) Al Qadeia and others were giving their kids realistic looking toy guns and having them play with the guns by pointing at us on patrol trying to get us to shoot a kid for the bad press… we didn’t, but what dickheads to put their own kids in jeapordy like that.
If this video truly offends you you really need to move to France or something like that. It is not the image we like to portray, as a leader if I saw it I would stop it, but I can think of many other things to focus my attention on… like bringing your sons, brothers and neighbors home alive and in one piece.
Okay, rant over… flame on… but maybe you could put all that anger over this video into motivation and take your ass to the gym![/quote]
Thank you for your service. Well said.