Background info…
and the editorial…
What say you? I’m going with “giant waste of taxpayer dollars.”
Yeah, what a terrible idea for the government to make sure companies can’t put a bunch of shit in your food…
I’m sure that people going to the hospital with blood pressure-related conditions doesn’t cost us any money, either.
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
Yeah, what a terrible idea for the government to make sure companies can’t put a bunch of shit in your food…
I’m sure that people going to the hospital with blood pressure-related conditions doesn’t cost us any money, either.[/quote]
It is a terrible idea. Am I not a responsible adult who can make my own health choices? If I want to eat a bunch of shit, what is the problem? If the public at large truly desired healthy food, it would be in the self-interest of the food industry to provide them with that. And indeed that has happened in some instances, at least in my area where I have seen many health/organic food stores open up. But the fact is, that most people prefer taste to health, and that is absolutely their right to.
No, it’s not a terrible idea. Just like it wasn’t a terrible idea for the government to get involved in the meatpacking industry either (of course, you would have defended them too, had you been around at the time). Go to China if you don’t care what kind of crap makes it into your food.
I assume you are a responsible adult, but it makes no difference when everything in the store is full of sodium.Furthermore, it is a public health problem, which is absolutely within the purview of the government when the public bears so much healthcare-related expense.
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
No, it’s not a terrible idea. Just like it wasn’t a terrible idea for the government to get involved in the meatpacking industry either (of course, you would have defended them too, had you been around at the time). Go to China if you don’t care what kind of crap makes it into your food.
I assume you are a responsible adult, but it makes no difference when everything in the store is full of sodium.Furthermore, it is a public health problem, which is absolutely within the purview of the government when the public bears so much healthcare-related expense.[/quote]
Everything in the store is full of sodium? Umm, have you been to a grocery store lately? There are a ton of items that are low and even no sodium because -gasp- the producers actually serviced the consumers’ demands. This is not a “public health problem”, this is about an individual’s right to choose his own health choices, in accordance with his own values and ideals.
You are trying to make an excuse for the government to invade our lives because you apparently think you know what’s good for us. I actually know people who want to eat bad, salty foods because they LIKE them and would fully admit that they value that more than eating healthy. Does it make them kind of irrational, and maybe even stupid at times? Indeed. Does this mean the government has the right to tell me how much of an ingredient I can eat? Nope.
Re: meat-packing industry…not sure what type of analogy you’re attempting to make. Early twentieth century meat-packing plants had unsanitary conditions, disease, and (possibly, I’m not sure there’s any hard evidence for it) workers that slipped and fell being ground up along with beef. Salt is a GRAS substance that nearly all evidence I’ve come across shows does not need to be limited in healthy individuals, and much of the evidence for limitation in various disease states is conflicted. It’s a stupid substance to target.
The government already IS involved. There are these things, called nutritional information labels - designed so people can read them (if they want), and make a choice about whether or not to consume a product.
Haha. I guess groceries aren’t the only area in which you look no deeper than the label. The can of Diet Sunkist I’m drinking right now has 5% of the RDA of sodium. A can of soda. Look at frozen food. Some of those pathetic little entrees have a third of your daily allotment. It’s in meat, it’s in cereal, it’s in sauces, it’s everywhere. You’re a fool if you think that the availability of a few low-sodium (which may not be that low in sodium) items does anything about the problem.
Yes it is. Talk to any doctor about the health risks of a very high-sodium diet. Quit taking the piss.
And no, this is not about an individual’s right to choose, it’s about protecting your utopian ideology. You’re still free to salt your food before you eat it if it’s that big a deal.
Yes, just like the government “invaded people’s lives” when it told them they could no longer employ small children in factories, like it “invaded people’s lives” when it told cigarette manufacturers that they had to admit to people that their product would kill them, and etc. As much as you try to sidestep the fact, doctors DO know what is best for your health. The object is not to tell people that they can’t eat more than x milligrams of salt per day, it’s to reduce the egregious amounts of salt in products so that average people have a chance of avoiding it. Like I said, you can still salt your food if you want to.
Well then good news! No one is telling you how much you can eat. They are asking manufacturers to reduce the amount of salt in their products. No wonder you’re confused–you’re arguing the wrong thing.
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
Yeah, what a terrible idea for the government to make sure companies can’t put a bunch of shit in your food…
I’m sure that people going to the hospital with blood pressure-related conditions doesn’t cost us any money, either.[/quote]
Is someone forcing you to eat that crap food ? The same crap food that is known to cause health problems regardless of salt consumption ? Consumed by the same people who curiously wonder why living off that crap food has made them sick and who need to be told to exercise regularly?
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
Haha. I guess groceries aren’t the only area in which you look no deeper than the label. The can of Diet Sunkist I’m drinking right now has 5% of the RDA of sodium. A can of soda. Look at frozen food. Some of those pathetic little entrees have a third of your daily allotment. It’s in meat, it’s in cereal, it’s in sauces, it’s everywhere. You’re a fool if you think that the availability of a few low-sodium (which may not be that low in sodium) items does anything about the problem.
Yes it is. Talk to any doctor about the health risks of a very high-sodium diet. Quit taking the piss.
And no, this is not about an individual’s right to choose, it’s about protecting your utopian ideology. You’re still free to salt your food before you eat it if it’s that big a deal.
Yes, just like the government “invaded people’s lives” when it told them they could no longer employ small children in factories, like it “invaded people’s lives” when it told cigarette manufacturers that they had to admit to people that their product would kill them, and etc. As much as you try to sidestep the fact, doctors DO know what is best for your health. The object is not to tell people that they can’t eat more than x milligrams of salt per day, it’s to reduce the egregious amounts of salt in products so that average people have a chance of avoiding it. Like I said, you can still salt your food if you want to.
Well then good news! No one is telling you how much you can eat. They are asking manufacturers to reduce the amount of salt in their products. No wonder you’re confused–you’re arguing the wrong thing.
[/quote]
See, the thing is, that it’s not just a few low sodium items. They are everywhere. I know because I use them. In any event, like I said, people aren’t very concerned with their sodium intake in general, and if that is how they feel, who the hell are you to tell them they should be? It is an imagined problem for the do-gooders who feel the need to tell people how to behave, nothing more.
Like I said before, I’m not saying that it’s not a HEALTH problem for individuals, but it is not a “public” health problem. That would entail that it is something that is affecting third parties like a contagious disease (in which case the government may be justified in intervening), but this is about what consumers’ desire. They have spoken, and their message is “We like shitty foods.”
Funny how you assume I have a Utopian ideology, yet nowhere in my ideology does there exist the use of force by third parties to tell people how to behave. Yes, doctors generally know what is best for our health, I agree. Therefore, we should be able to choose whether or not we want to listen to their advice, and not simply be forced to follow the “experts.” Anyone can avoid the high salt in foods, IF they truly desire to have low-salt foods. I guarantee you that if the public was really on board with this, the government wouldn’t need to do a thing. The companies would’ve already reduced their salt, though admittedly it would take time. And sorry, but no, they’re not “asking” manufacturers to reduce the amount of salt, they are forcing them.
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
Haha. I guess groceries aren’t the only area in which you look no deeper than the label. The can of Diet Sunkist I’m drinking right now
[/quote]
Ha! You are cheering on sodium regulation while you drink a aspartame-ladened soda?
Allow me to shed some light www.dorway.com
Whats the PROBLEM? Use science-speak if you can.
Whats “high”? Is it not relative? Does it not depend on potassium intake? Water intake?
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
Yeah, what a terrible idea for the government to make sure companies can’t put a bunch of shit in your food…
I’m sure that people going to the hospital with blood pressure-related conditions doesn’t cost us any money, either.[/quote]
Is someone forcing you to eat that crap food ? The same crap food that is known to cause health problems regardless of salt consumption ? Consumed by the same people who curiously wonder why living off that crap food has made them sick and who need to be told to exercise regularly?[/quote]
Is someone telling you that you can’t sprinkle some salt on your low-sodium potato chips?
You know what, that’s great. You count up all the low-sodium items there are, and then count all the regular ones. Let me know what you find.
People don’t care, that’s an excellent reason to do something about it. Most people don’t look. That means they probably won’t notice when manufacturers reduce the sodium content of their foods. Also, you’ll have contributed to better public health, all without John Doe having to realize any of it.
And no one is telling them they “should be concerned.” Like I said, they don’t have to care. Plus, it might reduce needless deaths and save us money in the long run.
Yeah, high sodium is an imagined problem. You’re reaching.
individual health problem + public composed principally of individuals = public health problem
LMAO, “the consumers have spoken.” If by that you mean they have continued to buy food after manufactures began–of their own accord, it’s important to point out–putting lots and lots of sodium in it, then I guess you’re right.
Yes I know. “Leave it to the free market! It’ll work out and you don’t even have to DO anything!” That’s the definition of utopian.
Ignoring the fact that they ARE the experts, “we” are able to choose whether we want to listen to their advice. We have a representative democracy, and our elected representatives have made a decision.
That’s right, but it shouldn’t be that hard. You shouldn’t have to have a special shopping list to avoid all the sodium.
[quote]And sorry, but no, they’re not “asking” manufacturers to reduce the amount of salt, they are forcing them.
[/quote]
Um, no, sorry, they ARE asking them to reduce the sodium. They may force them in the future, but it hasn’t happened yet.
[quote]THE_CLAMP_DOWN wrote:Ha! You are cheering on sodium regulation while you drink a aspartame-ladened soda?
Allow me to shed some light www.dorway.com[/quote]
What’s the problem? You think I don’t know about aspartame? I clearly think sodium is a problem too, but I still drink the soda. What’s your point?
You know what? No. I’m not going to do this basic crap for you. If you have never been made aware of the effects of sodium on blood pressure, and then the serious problems it leads to, then I’m sorry. A quick Google search should get you up to speed.
All excellent questions. I suggest you head to Google or Wikipedia straight away.
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
Yeah, what a terrible idea for the government to make sure companies can’t put a bunch of shit in your food…
I’m sure that people going to the hospital with blood pressure-related conditions doesn’t cost us any money, either.[/quote]
Is someone forcing you to eat that crap food ? The same crap food that is known to cause health problems regardless of salt consumption ? Consumed by the same people who curiously wonder why living off that crap food has made them sick and who need to be told to exercise regularly?[/quote]
Is someone telling you that you can’t sprinkle some salt on your low-sodium potato chips?[/quote]
No, but they will substitute it with something that will be far worse and 100% FDA approved and 20 years later all of our kidneys will explode.
Would hardly be the first time and if we just put salt on it afterwards anyway, what is the point in the first place?
I guess his point is that sodium tastes good, and that is why it is put in to all kinds of foods. The added health risks means little to a company making money from selling sodium laden food today.
With over 1/3 of USA being obese, it is obvious some people need their food regulated for them. Most people on these boards doesn’t down a big mac because the 1090mg of sodium, and 29g fat in it makes it taste good. Other people do. These FDA regulations are not made for T members, but for the general population.
[quote]espenl wrote:
I guess his point is that sodium tastes good, and that is why it is put in to all kinds of foods. The added health risks means little to a company making money from selling sodium laden food today.
With over 1/3 of USA being obese, it is obvious some people need their food regulated for them. Most people on these boards doesn’t down a big mac because the 1090mg of sodium, and 29g fat in it makes it taste good. Other people do. These FDA regulations are not made for T members, but for the general population.[/quote]
Do you know why they got fatter?
Because some do gooders 20 years ago were convinced fat was bad so they campaigned against it and fat was substituted by simple carbohydrates.
That went well, didnt it?
But you would like the very same clowns to tell everyone how to eat?
Cereally?
[quote]espenl wrote:
I guess his point is that sodium tastes good, and that is why it is put in to all kinds of foods. The added health risks means little to a company making money from selling sodium laden food today.[/quote]
It shouldn’t mean anything to a company. It’s not the responsibility of any company to make sure you’re healthy. That’s your responsibility. Why is this so hard to figure out?
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
You know what, that’s great. You count up all the low-sodium items there are, and then count all the regular ones. Let me know what you find.[/quote]
Irrelevant. There are clearly enough low-sodium items for anyone who’s interested, which are not that many people anyways.
LOL. Wow. So, your plan is to deceive people into wanting to be healthier because they don’t care enough to do it themselves? Sounds like you “think” you know what’s good for people. Not surprising. Here’s the thing though: It doesn’t matter even if you know what’s good for them. They ought to be responsible for themselves and their own health.
Uh, yeah the FDA is telling people they have to be concerned by telling companies what the consumer “should” want. You’re right, it might reduce needless deaths, but at what cost? The cost of reducing an individual’s autonomy over his own body? Then again, it would be quite an accomplishment for a government program to actually accomplish its intended effects. Now, I know this isn’t that huge of a thing yet, but I guarantee you this won’t be the last “public health initiative” that the FDA launches.
Not at all. It is a problem for individuals over their own body. Nothing more.
You’re making a critical collectivist error here. It is an individual problem because they can fully make the decision whether or not they want foods with lower sodium or not. And I could just spin that backwards for you and say public health problem = public composed principally of individuals = individual health problem. As I said before, if this was some contagious disease whereby people did not voluntarily agree to it and it’s health risks, then that would be another story, but this is simply about an individual’s willingness to care for his own health.
Right. If they had truly wanted low-sodium foods, then that would’ve been mainly what they would be provided with. How many times do I have to explain this to you? The food companies are looking to make a profit - nothing more - and if they know that what consumers at large truly desire are low-sodium and healthy foods, then they would certainly provide those things because it would provide them with a bigger profit of course.
Huh? Seems as if you just don’t understand the free market. It’s not that “you don’t even have to DO anything!”, it’s that everything is already done through the price system and supply and demand. People are doing things everyday that send messages to producers what they want and don’t want. In fact, it is quite the opposite - there are many things being done in the free market, just not by outside entities. It is only when these entities intervene that the free market gets thrown off course. Of course, you’ll just dub this as “black voo-doo magic” I’m sure.
Yeah! The bright overlords have made a decision and we should just line up like lemmings for their kool-aid without EVER questioning their authority! Who’s the Utopian again?
It isn’t that hard. My god, really do you ever go shopping for food? I’m going to say this one more time: if most people really wanted low-sodium food then it would be in abundance. Because they don’t, most of the food in most grocery stores are not low-sodium, BUT there is a large section of low-sodium foods for the people that DO want low sodium.
Uh, no they really aren’t. It even said in the article that they HAD been asking them for years, but to no avail, so now they are going to be taking action. Try again.