Sleep Deprivation

Nutrition
1

Hello,
I am a college student, and will be going to be going through an absolutely tough quarter this fall that will only give me around two, two hour sleep periods(one in bed, the other in car) during the week between work and school. From now until then I will keep lifting (though I will stop when I start school due to time and body limits)… but does anyone have any other ideas?

While I am in school I am not going to worry about getting too much food. I will eat clean and make sure that I am meeting at least my basic needed minimum. Just from the stress and sitting in classrooms/libraries I will probably gain some fat and loose muscle, so my concern is mainly keeping my mind at the best level it can under the conditions… I can worry about my body comp later.
caffeine will be my best friend… anyone have any other favorite supplements/foods/habits that work well for them?..

2

I don’t know how much your supplement budget will be like given that you are a college student but some things to consider:

Spike - more effective and less damaging to your system than caffeine

ZMA - good mineral supplementation for stress, might make you too sleepy if you are only going to get 2 hrs at a time though

Adatogens - rhodiola rosea and all varieties of ginseng - these will help your body deal with the stress it is going to be facing

Fish Oil - good for the brain and also good for dealing with stress

3

Ditch the job…why would you want to hurt your body and school work?

i was in a similar situation this past semester. i worked at a bar from 9 until close almost every other day with class at 8 or 9 the next morning. it sucks. DON’T DO IT. take out a loan. take out what you need from the bank or government; it’s an investment in yourself.

Don’t think of taking out a loan as the easy way out. you’re in school to learn and grow. if you want money; take out the loan, get good grades, and pay it back in due time b/c you got those A’s!

4

I didn’t notice his mention of a job. I agree, ditch the job.

I tried to work several part time jobs while going to college and it just did not work out. I wound up dropping out of college because it was just too much to juggle and I was burnt out.

I had a 1420 SAT score, and now I’m an assistant manager at a small grocery store.

Don’t end up like me.

5

LOL @ moon knight. I don’t think having a 1420 really means much these days but anyway…

Ditch the job. Last fall I worked an internship from 9-3 or 4 almost everyday and had class afterwards. Not to mention I didn’t get much sleep from living in a house of 5 other guys and had to wake up at 7:30 every morning. Last spring semester I found a campus job that allowed me to work when I was free, with no set hours. I got a 3.93 GPA. It really makes all the difference, when you are stress free about work/school.

6

[quote]nycsoccax wrote:
LOL @ moon knight. I don’t think having a 1420 really means much these days but anyway…

Ditch the job. Last fall I worked an internship from 9-3 or 4 almost everyday and had class afterwards. Not to mention I didn’t get much sleep from living in a house of 5 other guys and had to wake up at 7:30 every morning. Last spring semester I found a campus job that allowed me to work when I was free, with no set hours. I got a 3.93 GPA. It really makes all the difference, when you are stress free about work/school. [/quote]

Well this was before the scoring system changed. I am sure there are plenty of people here that did as well or better.

It was just the simplest way for me to make my point that I wasted my potential.

7

i had to work all the way through college as well, but I was able to keep my sleep to atleast 4 solid hours a day. I made up sleep between classes. I also used a supplement called “choline coctail” in place of coffee (I dont know if it still exists) as it seemed less hard on my body but still kept me awake.

Honestly though, if you cant get 4-5 solid hours of sleep a night, i would either ask for flexibility with your schedule with your boss, or seek a new job. If you dont, you will risk losing your education, your job, and your body. Take it from someone who has been there, your expectations are waayyyyy too high and you are setting yourself up for failure.

8

[quote]Moon Knight wrote:
nycsoccax wrote:
LOL @ moon knight. I don’t think having a 1420 really means much these days but anyway…

Ditch the job. Last fall I worked an internship from 9-3 or 4 almost everyday and had class afterwards. Not to mention I didn’t get much sleep from living in a house of 5 other guys and had to wake up at 7:30 every morning. Last spring semester I found a campus job that allowed me to work when I was free, with no set hours. I got a 3.93 GPA. It really makes all the difference, when you are stress free about work/school.

Well this was before the scoring system changed. I am sure there are plenty of people here that did as well or better.

It was just the simplest way for me to make my point that I wasted my potential.[/quote]

Obviously out of 1600. I honestly think SAT’s are bullshit though. Some people just do better on tests than others. And I’m not saying that out of bitterness, I scored a 1290 and think thats a great score. SAT’s are only 1/3 of what colleges really look at anyway.

BTW, you can always take Adderall to get you through the day :wink:

9

[quote]Moon Knight wrote:
I didn’t notice his mention of a job. I agree, ditch the job.

I tried to work several part time jobs while going to college and it just did not work out. I wound up dropping out of college because it was just too much to juggle and I was burnt out.

I had a 1420 SAT score, and now I’m an assistant manager at a small grocery store.

Don’t end up like me.[/quote]

Not to be a jerk, but why don’t you go back to school? What’s stopping you?

10

[quote]Agnostic wrote:
Hello,
I am a college student, and will be going to be going through an absolutely tough quarter this fall that will only give me around two, two hour sleep periods(one in bed, the other in car) during the week between work and school. From now until then I will keep lifting (though I will stop when I start school due to time and body limits)… but does anyone have any other ideas?

While I am in school I am not going to worry about getting too much food. I will eat clean and make sure that I am meeting at least my basic needed minimum. Just from the stress and sitting in classrooms/libraries I will probably gain some fat and loose muscle, so my concern is mainly keeping my mind at the best level it can under the conditions… I can worry about my body comp later.
caffeine will be my best friend… anyone have any other favorite supplements/foods/habits that work well for them?..

If you really want to “work” and get a taste of the real world instead of studying, join the military.

I have a friend who was in the coast guard for three years and now get’s his tuition free (tho i’m sure that’s the case for only some states). Unless you’re doing an internship; don’t work.

What are you proving? that you’re educated AND can flip burgers for minimum wage?
[/quote]

11

[quote]Joseph93 wrote:
Moon Knight wrote:
I didn’t notice his mention of a job. I agree, ditch the job.

I tried to work several part time jobs while going to college and it just did not work out. I wound up dropping out of college because it was just too much to juggle and I was burnt out.

I had a 1420 SAT score, and now I’m an assistant manager at a small grocery store.

Don’t end up like me.

Not to be a jerk, but why don’t you go back to school? What’s stopping you?

[/quote]

You don’t sound like a jerk. I just don’t see how I can afford it now even if I could make time around my job (difficult but probably doable with online classes, night classes, and a little schedule flexibility). I still have debt to pay off from the first time around and I have accumulated some credit card debt since then.

Since I am not a first time student I am not going to get the same loan deals and grants I got the first time (didn’t get much, but even small grants were nice) and I am not sure how lenders will look on my current financial situation.

Also, its a big question mark what I would go back and study. College is an investment in oneself, with the goal being to be able to make more money later on. I know there are other reasons for going but if you are financing it yourself then you need to be able to pay it off. Most of my interests will not return much. I would love to study mathematics, history, languages (especially ancient languages), and philosophy. Psychology is about the only interest I have that might be able to be turned into a lucrative career. Computer science is an option too but that job market is pretty swamped I hear.

12

[quote]Moon Knight wrote:
Also, its a big question mark what I would go back and study. College is an investment in oneself, with the goal being to be able to make more money later on. I know there are other reasons for going but if you are financing it yourself then you need to be able to pay it off. Most of my interests will not return much. I would love to study mathematics, history, languages (especially ancient languages), and philosophy. Psychology is about the only interest I have that might be able to be turned into a lucrative career. Computer science is an option too but that job market is pretty swamped I hear.
[/quote]

thats the biggest difference between someone who’s parents are payin (studentA), and someone who is footin the bill themselves (StudentB). StudentA is there to grow up, have fun, and persue triviality, StudentB is there to get a skill set and a better job. The mind set is completely different, atleast it was for me.

13

[quote]koffea wrote:
Moon Knight wrote:
Also, its a big question mark what I would go back and study. College is an investment in oneself, with the goal being to be able to make more money later on. I know there are other reasons for going but if you are financing it yourself then you need to be able to pay it off. Most of my interests will not return much. I would love to study mathematics, history, languages (especially ancient languages), and philosophy. Psychology is about the only interest I have that might be able to be turned into a lucrative career. Computer science is an option too but that job market is pretty swamped I hear.

thats the biggest difference between someone who’s parents are payin (studentA), and someone who is footin the bill themselves (StudentB). StudentA is there to grow up, have fun, and persue triviality, StudentB is there to get a skill set and a better job. The mind set is completely different, atleast it was for me.[/quote]

That’s really part of what went wrong the first time. I didn’t know why I was there. My parents weren’t paying for it but I didn’t have a goal or plan in mind. College was just the next step after high school that anyone that was not a loser took and somehow along the way you discover a career.

14

I see what you mean.

Like i was saying earlier…you could always go the military route. Not necessarily something where you put yourself directly in harms way. Maybe coast guard or air force. That way when you go back to school, you’ll have college paid for.

Also, it’ll give you a chance to just think and not put up with a crappy job. I think it’s a great route.

but if you have a passion you should pursue it! who cares what it is.

just don’t give up on your education.

15

[quote]Moon Knight wrote:
Joseph93 wrote:
Moon Knight wrote:
I didn’t notice his mention of a job. I agree, ditch the job.

I tried to work several part time jobs while going to college and it just did not work out. I wound up dropping out of college because it was just too much to juggle and I was burnt out.

I had a 1420 SAT score, and now I’m an assistant manager at a small grocery store.

Don’t end up like me.

Not to be a jerk, but why don’t you go back to school? What’s stopping you?

You don’t sound like a jerk. I just don’t see how I can afford it now even if I could make time around my job (difficult but probably doable with online classes, night classes, and a little schedule flexibility). I still have debt to pay off from the first time around and I have accumulated some credit card debt since then.

Since I am not a first time student I am not going to get the same loan deals and grants I got the first time (didn’t get much, but even small grants were nice) and I am not sure how lenders will look on my current financial situation.

Also, its a big question mark what I would go back and study. College is an investment in oneself, with the goal being to be able to make more money later on. I know there are other reasons for going but if you are financing it yourself then you need to be able to pay it off.

Most of my interests will not return much. I would love to study mathematics, history, languages (especially ancient languages), and philosophy. Psychology is about the only interest I have that might be able to be turned into a lucrative career. Computer science is an option too but that job market is pretty swamped I hear.
[/quote]

If you want to go back eventually just try to gradually accumulate creds and reqs at a community college in all the areas you’re shot. The interests you mention would mostly feed into teaching, law, or in the case of math, financials.

Just having a BS/BA will open more doors regardless of the major though. Set yourself up to make it as cheap and easy as possible if/when you pull the trigger.

16

As for the OP, this is a bad idea. 4 hours a night in one block is doable for the week if you can make some up on the weekends, but split into 2 hour blocks it won’t work. Stims can get you through a couple days of intense sleep deprivation at a time and high stress environments can do the same, but unless you are a freak of nature you will not be able to sustain it 4-5 days a week for 10-16 weeks.

Like the other posters said, college is an investment. You’re better off going a little deeper in debt to guarantee you complete it successfully than taking a gamble that you’ll fail this quarter/semester.

17

[quote]etaco wrote:
As for the OP, this is a bad idea. 4 hours a night in one block is doable for the week if you can make some up on the weekends, but split into 2 hour blocks it won’t work. Stims can get you through a couple days of intense sleep deprivation at a time and high stress environments can do the same, but unless you are a freak of nature you will not be able to sustain it 4-5 days a week for 10-16 weeks.

Like the other posters said, college is an investment. You’re better off going a little deeper in debt to guarantee you complete it successfully than taking a gamble that you’ll fail this quarter/semester.[/quote]

I would be surprised if anyone could sustain 2 hours of sleep a night for more than four or five days PERIOD without noticing serious problems, stimulants or not. Sleep is not cumulative, sleep two hours now and two hours later, you’ve just slept for two hours twice, not four hours, neither provides enough time to do the vital repair work that sleep is intended to do.

18

Thanks for the replies, I will likely be doing most all the advice given here… just some further into my future than others.
I am a bio/chem major and hope to end up with a PhD in decent enough time.

I am reluctant to drop my job for a number of reasons, I work in a private lab testing food products, which although not research… is still in a lab which will help me get into grad school. Another problem is I can not get enough government loans to cover my bills, I can get some but basically only enough to cover the actual classes.

I could get private loans but the interest rates on them right now are so high, once I got out of school I would be hard pressed just to be able to pay the interest… I will likely end up doing this further into my schooling when the demands get higher and the total time in debt will be less.

Last quarter I pulled a 4.0 with 16 credit hours on one 4 to 5 hour block of sleep a night, so I think it is something I can sustain… though I will likely sleep most the weekend away trying to heal my body and rid myself from that horrid coffee rot gut feeling.
koffea- did you use the choline cocktail w/ caffeine additive?

19

[quote]Agnostic wrote:
koffea- did you use the choline cocktail w/ caffeine additive?[/quote]
this was before there was a “choline cocktail w/ caffeine addative”. Although I am sure that the “choline cocktail” product i used had plenty of caffeine already mixed. I am guessing that it had about 80 mg per serving.

20

[quote]Agnostic wrote:
Hello,

I am a college student, and will be going to be going through an absolutely tough quarter this fall that will only give me around two, two hour sleep periods(one in bed, the other in car) during the week between work and school.

From now until then I will keep lifting (though I will stop when I start school due to time and body limits)… but does anyone have any other ideas?

While I am in school I am not going to worry about getting too much food. I will eat clean and make sure that I am meeting at least my basic needed minimum.

Just from the stress and sitting in classrooms/libraries I will probably gain some fat and loose muscle, so my concern is mainly keeping my mind at the best level it can under the conditions… I can worry about my body comp later.

caffeine will be my best friend… anyone have any other favorite supplements/foods/habits that work well for them?..
[/quote]

I would have to agree with Joseph. That’s good advice man. Take it!

Damn nearly impossible to achieve your training goals with just two hours of sleep. If you want good grades mate, get your sleep, earn them grades, and earn good money later on in life. Win-win solution. I’m sure you can put off training for a few months, a year maybe if thats what it takes.

As for preserving your muscle, take BCAAs and Whey now and then. Light workouts without weights and bodyweight movements will preserve your muscle just fine. Fish Oils, Vit C, ZMA, and Ginseng are all great stress fighters.
Word of Caution: don’t overdose on the caffiene regularly while your running low on sleep. That may lead to short-term or long-term Adrenal Exhaustion.

Have a good one!