Situational Awareness

Training
41

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:
It’s not that hard to get laid in this world, the idea that I would put my freedom in jeopardy is asinine.
[/quote]
Prisons are full of men who did think like that. Colleges have more than a few guys walking around who think like that. [/quote]

I think most DECENT males wouldn’t do anything to harm or sexually exploit a female. Where are you drawing these conclusions from?
[/quote]
That’s the point: drawing conclusions. Serial killers, rapists, murderers, kidnappers, etc., don’t wear signs. They don’t have a look. I’m not talking about going on a date with your best friend’s sister or something. If the only knowledge a woman has of a guy is what he has supplied then she should be cautious.

42

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:
It’s not that hard to get laid in this world, the idea that I would put my freedom in jeopardy is asinine.
[/quote]
Prisons are full of men who did think like that. Colleges have more than a few guys walking around who think like that. [/quote]

I think most DECENT males wouldn’t do anything to harm or sexually exploit a female. Where are you drawing these conclusions from?
[/quote]

I absolutely agree that no decent male would harm or exploit a female.

However, surveys conducted on college campuses report that 1 in 4 women have been the victims of rape or attempted rape by the time they reach college age. 85% of those women knew their attackers and over half of the were on a date when the attack occurred.

1 in 12 men ADMITTED to having committed acts that legally constituted rape. 1 in 3 men said they would commit rape if they could avoid detection. 1 in 4 men said rape was acceptable if the woman asks the man out, the man pays for the date and/or the woman voluntarily goes back to the man’s room after the date.

These numbers, anecdotally at least, are consistent with the experiences of women I know.

So, while I agree that a decent man would not harm a woman it appears that there is a significant number of men out there who aren’t decent. Assuming a guy is decent until he proves otherwise by attacking you isn’t the most proactive of solutions.

Edited

43

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:
It’s not that hard to get laid in this world, the idea that I would put my freedom in jeopardy is asinine.
[/quote]
Prisons are full of men who did think like that. Colleges have more than a few guys walking around who think like that. [/quote]

I think most DECENT males wouldn’t do anything to harm or sexually exploit a female. Where are you drawing these conclusions from?
[/quote]

I absolutely agree that no decent male would harm or exploit a female.

However, surveys conducted on college campuses report that 1 in 4 women have been the victims of rape or attempted rape by the time they reach college age. 85% of those women knew their attackers and over half of the were on a date when the attack occurred.

1 in 12 men ADMITTED to having committed acts that legally constituted rape. 1 in 3 men said they would commit rape if they could avoid detection. 1 in 4 men said rape was acceptable if the woman asks the man out, the man pays for the date and/or the woman voluntarily goes back to the man’s room after the date.

These numbers, anecdotally at least, are consistent with the experiences of women I know.

So, while I agree that a decent man would not harm a woman it appears that there is a significant number of men out there who aren’t decent. Assuming a guy is decent until he proves otherwise by attacking you isn’t the most proactive of solutions.

Edited [/quote]

I don’t know what study’s your citing, but I can’t really examine them without sources. Respect is a two way street. And with that I’m done discussing anything other than situational awareness in this thread.

44

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:
It’s not that hard to get laid in this world, the idea that I would put my freedom in jeopardy is asinine.
[/quote]
Prisons are full of men who did think like that. Colleges have more than a few guys walking around who think like that. [/quote]

I think most DECENT males wouldn’t do anything to harm or sexually exploit a female. Where are you drawing these conclusions from?
[/quote]

I absolutely agree that no decent male would harm or exploit a female.

However, surveys conducted on college campuses report that 1 in 4 women have been the victims of rape or attempted rape by the time they reach college age. 85% of those women knew their attackers and over half of the were on a date when the attack occurred.

1 in 12 men ADMITTED to having committed acts that legally constituted rape. 1 in 3 men said they would commit rape if they could avoid detection. 1 in 4 men said rape was acceptable if the woman asks the man out, the man pays for the date and/or the woman voluntarily goes back to the man’s room after the date.

These numbers, anecdotally at least, are consistent with the experiences of women I know.

So, while I agree that a decent man would not harm a woman it appears that there is a significant number of men out there who aren’t decent. Assuming a guy is decent until he proves otherwise by attacking you isn’t the most proactive of solutions.

Edited [/quote]

I don’t know what study’s your citing, but I can’t really examine them without sources. Respect is a two way street. And with that I’m done discussing anything other than situational awareness in this thread.
[/quote]

Agreed. I have no desire to derail this thread.

However, for your own edification there’s this from the Centre for Disease Control: the 2010 National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey that was just recently released. It’s one of the more current and comprehensive items I could find. It’s fairly consistent with most of the other information I’ve come across.

http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/nisvs/index.html

It’s based on self-reporting data via telephone survey from 9086 women and 7421 men from all 50 states. It found 18.3% of women reported being victims of attempted or completed rape in their lifetime, thankfully somewhat lower than the 25% I was citing, but still plenty high. I suspect that if you confined the study to women/girls currently attending high school and college the numbers would be higher, but that’s just a guess.

51.1% of those women were victimized by an intimate partner or spouse and 40.8 were attacked by male acquaintances. Almost 79.6% were attacked before age 25 and over 42.2% were attacked before age 18. 16.2% reported having been victims of stalking and 66.2% of those were stalked by a current or former intimate partner.

If those aren’t valid situational awareness concerns and thus relevant to this discussion, I don’t know what is. If I had an 18.3% chance of getting shot/stabbed in my lifetime, I’d take it pretty fucking seriously and I’d want to take some significant steps to reduce that risk. For those of us who help teach women/girls how to protect themselves it is something that we have a moral duty to acknowledge and address.

I get that you’re offended to be associated with these guys by virtue of our gender. It offends the shit out of me too, but it’s a fact of life. Respect IS a two way street. However, like trust it must be earned, not simply demanded.

Edited (clarity)

45

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]Seachel_25 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]Seachel_25 wrote:
I try to go places with a small group of people; the annoying habit of the female world: going to the bathroom in packs, is a very helpful strategy that I stress in all my Self-Defense classes.
[/quote]
However, you want to make sure that there are some left behind to make sure no one messes with your drinks. Which also reminds me that you don’t want to accept a drink that a man brings over to you.

Women should also, when going out on a date, let people know about it. Tell them to check up with them every hour or something. In this age of cell phones it’s simple to do. With online dating instead of meeting someone for the first time alone, even if in a public place, bring a friend. This way someone else will have a physical description of the guy. The friend can always leave after meeting the man (And if she’s clever she’ll take a pic of the guy as well as his car. Again, cell phones are good for this.). Unfortunately I think women take a superficial view of independence and don’t look at it as a state of mind. They equate being on their own with being independent. I don’t know what they think guys will think if they come across as cautious but I know that most guys would actually be impressed by it and those who find it weird or stupid probably don’t have sisters or any other women in their lives they care about. [/quote]

Really? Gimmie a break. If someone I was supposed to meet for a date was taking pictures of me and my vehicle I would dump her ass on the spot.
[/quote]

Kinda depends on how they did it though, doesn’t it?

If it’s like, “I’m going to take a mug shot of you so I can point you out easier in a line up and by the way I’m going to take a picture of your car and liscense plate too in case I need to tell the police to look you up.” Then yeah, that’s going to be a little off putting.

But if it’s like, “Hey we look so good together, let’s have my friend take a picture of us” and they just happen to stage it in front of your car, or maybe the girl asks if she can put something in your car (maybe she is conveniently coming from work and wants to put her work shoes or work clothes in there and not have to carry them around) and then while you are there get’s overwhelmed by the urge to take another picture with you because you are so hot and she wants to show you off to her friends (and her friend just happens to frame the car and liscense plate in the pic). Well, you are probably going to be less off put by that approach aren’t you? You might still be thinking, “wow, this girl takes a LOT of pictures, not sure if I like that” but you aren’t going to feel like you are being surveilled. [/quote]

As long as the girl isn’t being creepy about taking picture, you shouldn’t even suspect a thing. Think about it: With social media, I can easily just scope you out on Facebook/Twitter/Google/online forums to get an idea: Most typically yield a photo, and then I could just tell someone, “Yeah, this is the kid I’m going on the date with.” And you wouldn’t even have known that you were already scoped out.

When I met my fiance five years ago, it was with a group of friends and at my track meet. The next few times we met, I was still with someone and my dad made sure to meet him early on (dad’s a scary old man, 6th Dan and isn’t afraid to tear people apart if it means protecting his family).
[/quote]

To each their own. I wouldn’t deal with that type of suspicion , but that is just me.

Btw, your lifts are impressive.

[/quote]

Thanks! :slight_smile:

But I agree with this post and your subsequent ones: to each their own.

I err on the side of precaution in these manners, but please don’t think it’s because I regard ALL men as rapist. I regard everyone as being potentially dangerous, but until proven otherwise, I respect them as who they show themselves to be. I try not to judge anyone negatively until proven otherwise, and then I try to find out why (background, etc).

I think a big underlying theme of this whole thread is just be mindful and pay attention to your surroundings. As my dad constantly tells me: Trust no one, have a good time.

46

CaptainO, I agree that most men are decent people & wouldn’t harm a female for pleasure, but the bad guys look usually look just like the good guys & the only way to tell the difference is time. It doesn’t mean I assume a man is bad whe I meet him. But I immediately start looking for clues as to what kind of person I’m dealing with. If I wanted to harm someone I’d definitely pretend I was a sweetie pie to get close & put them at ease, but most people have tells.

Strongly agree on watching your drink. Some years ago I was at an week long event & went to lunch with a couple of cops I’d partnered with in training. I went to the ladies room, came back to the table & picked up my water glass to take a sip & one of them said, “Don’t drink that.” “???” “You barely know us. I could have put something in your drink. Have the waitress bring you a new drink.” He insisted I make it a habit, starting now. Love that guy.

On eye contact, as a female, I do it quickly, & find something else interesting to pretend to look at, but I’m really scanning, looking at hand placement, posture, clothing, and in particular whether they seem to have too much focus on me. Holding eye contact with a strange man too long looks like an invitation.

47

[quote]Miss Parker wrote:
CaptainO, I agree that most men are decent people & wouldn’t harm a female for pleasure, but the bad guys look usually look just like the good guys & the only way to tell the difference is time. It doesn’t mean I assume a man is bad whe I meet him. But I immediately start looking for clues as to what kind of person I’m dealing with. If I wanted to harm someone I’d definitely pretend I was a sweetie pie to get close & put them at ease, but most people have tells.

Strongly agree on watching your drink. Some years ago I was at an week long event & went to lunch with a couple of cops I’d partnered with in training. I went to the ladies room, came back to the table & picked up my water glass to take a sip & one of them said, “Don’t drink that.” “???” “You barely know us. I could have put something in your drink. Have the waitress bring you a new drink.” He insisted I make it a habit, starting now. Love that guy.

On eye contact, as a female, I do it quickly, & find something else interesting to pretend to look at, but I’m really scanning, looking at hand placement, posture, clothing, and in particular whether they seem to have too much focus on me. Holding eye contact with a strange man too long looks like an invitation.
[/quote]

Yeah, totally different dynamic between male and female eye contact than male to male eye contact.

Like others said, while we as individual men know whether we are decent or not and would or would not commit sexual assault (including date rape) on a woman; there is no way that any woman can know that upon beginning to date you (unless maybe you’ve been friends for a long long time and are deciding to turn the relationship into a romantic one, which is not the scenario people are discussing) which side of the fence you are on. Serial date rapists are often times charming, charismatic, intelligent, and seemingly trustworthy; until they are not, but by that time it may be too late to do anything about it. To feel offended because a woman is trying to protect herself in a society where rape is a very real and sadly common reality/danger is pretty immature or simply naive.

48

[quote]Miss Parker wrote:
CaptainO, I agree that most men are decent people & wouldn’t harm a female for pleasure, but the bad guys look usually look just like the good guys & the only way to tell the difference is time. It doesn’t mean I assume a man is bad whe I meet him. But I immediately start looking for clues as to what kind of person I’m dealing with. If I wanted to harm someone I’d definitely pretend I was a sweetie pie to get close & put them at ease, but most people have tells.

Strongly agree on watching your drink. Some years ago I was at an week long event & went to lunch with a couple of cops I’d partnered with in training. I went to the ladies room, came back to the table & picked up my water glass to take a sip & one of them said, “Don’t drink that.” “???” “You barely know us. I could have put something in your drink. Have the waitress bring you a new drink.” He insisted I make it a habit, starting now. Love that guy.

On eye contact, as a female, I do it quickly, & find something else interesting to pretend to look at, but I’m really scanning, looking at hand placement, posture, clothing, and in particular whether they seem to have too much focus on me. Holding eye contact with a strange man too long looks like an invitation.
[/quote]

Good post and great advise about watching what you drink. I am no means an expert on kidnapping, but, I have been on two cases involving human trafficking and narcotics were “used” when a “rich client” wanted a special type of woman.

49

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:
What about eye contact in street situations in America? Good or bad?

Say walking past an individual that activates the gut reaction?

If seeing one of these individuals do you already have your hand on your weapon? Or searching for an improvised one? brick etc
[/quote]
I think whether you should or not depends on several things. Also, it depends on what kind of eye contact you make.

If you get the reaction while walking by it could already be too late. If you get it before then IMO you should try and avoid walking past that person. If the guy has a knife, and he knows what he’s doing, then you are probably going to get stabbed if you walk by him. It’s not like in the movies where he’ll pull out his knife and get into some stance. You’ll feel the knife before you see it.

If you have a hand on your weapon that’s one less hand you have to protect yourself if he takes a swing or something. If he has a weapon and you do manage to see him go for it then what? You are going to play quickdraw or something? He will be vulnerable as he goes for his weapon and that is the best time to try and disarm him.

When teaching cops weapons retention the first thing we would teach was to not rely on the weapon and automatically go for it. It was also the hardest thing to teach because cops somehow think their gun makes them superman. There is video footage of prisoners practicing disarming cops. This is why I find those civilians who like to open carry because they think it’s some deterrent, idiots. It will deter some but those who aren’t deterred are the ones they will have a problem with. It wouldn’t deter me if I were a criminal. When I see those Youtube videos of guys openly carrying their guns so they can post a video of how cops violate their rights I see some seriously out of touch people. I used to workout with ex-cons who looked like linebackers and if any one of them walked up to one of those gun toting champions of our right to bear arms and said hand it over, they would hand it over. If Tyson were standing 2 feet in front of you do you think you could draw a weapon before he caved your skull in? [/quote]

Good post.

If you don’t get any type of “gut feeling” about a person and are able to keep them at a distance, then looking them in the eyes and nodding or saying hello would be fine. If you get bad vibes from them or look at them as if you’re some sort of “tough guy”, then you would probably be best not to look them in the eyes.

Whether you would be better off with your hand on your weapon would depend on:

  1. The type of weapon
  2. Your proximatey to your potential attacker
  3. Your skill in using the weapon
  4. Your willingness to use the weapon
  5. The level of perceived danger/threat
  6. The legal/moral realities of the situation

In some cases you would absolutely want to either pre access the weapon or have your hand on it and be ready to access and deploy it. In other cases you would not want to do so. This is really going to be one of those case by case individual judgement calls that you would have to make based on the situation/circumstances.[/quote]

On the eye contact point:

In my view, it is generally better in a bad area to be seen as a predator than prey. That means being prepared to hold make eye contact. There is a fine line between making eye contact, and holding it in a way that conveys a challenge. I find that scanning streets bars, people when your on the door, in the same sort of way you would look at someone you were boxing (look ahead, and then sort of unfocus slightly) is an effective way of conveying your capability, but without issuing a challenge. It says that you are alert, confident, and wise to the darker sides of life. However, it stops you looking like you’re swaggerin around like the toughest guy in the playground, which is always a sure way of getting into trouble.
[/quote]

i like your point on eye contact… it’s something that people who deal with people in a rough environment do automatically. i’ve been “made” a lot when i’m off duty shopping as a cop because of this. i started noticing that people that work at gas stations in tough areas, pawn shops, etc look at people entirely different than in other retail stores.

i get annoyed when people refer to soldiers that do this as having PTSD or hyper-vigilance… of course, i also get annoyed watching today’s zombies walking around with their smart phones like it’s a horse leading a cart. <this habit right here simply makes it way too easy for people to get robbed, jumped , etc today.

50

If you want to get a feel for situational awareness. Play a game of assassins with your friends for a month of so. I did this back in the 90’s before they outlawed it in my local. Man that will keep your head on a swivel all day. Play for some meaningful cash amount. limit it to 10 people.

51

[quote]Dude623 wrote:
If you want to get a feel for situational awareness. Play a game of assassins with your friends for a month of so. I did this back in the 90’s before they outlawed it in my local. Man that will keep your head on a swivel all day. Play for some meaningful cash amount. limit it to 10 people.[/quote]

Hahaha. That’s a fun game. I don’t think it translates very well to the real practice needed with serious situations, but it can be an eye-opener. Often times the purpose of any drill or practice pattern isn’t to actually mimic the real thing but just open your eyes to how much you don’t know yet.

Do agree though, if you’re going to play it make the stakes high enough you’re invested in winning. Otherwise it’s pointless. Split the winnings between all survivors evenly.

52

Aragorn- to this day I still do double takes on anyone wearing sun glasses/ disguise items. Also the game convinced me to get my CPL.

53

OK, what game is this?

54

You used to be able to play on craigslist , and there had been a few billboards in the beginning ( 1980’s). You would sign up and receive detailed target instructions your job was to hunt them down and put a paint ball center mass on them. Realize someone else had your number and was actively hunting you.

This was done in your normal life ( maybe take lunch off to go observe someone for a while). Guys started getting more creative ( the idea was to do it in a at least plausible manner) and got carried away with theatrics. Which brought unwanted attention to the game. There where a few incidences where people where either murdered or injured during the course of the game . This was running nationwide in every major city when the plug was pulled and everyone just disappeared. A few groups continue to play (at the risk of legal action) today around the country. As I said matches played with trusted group members for cash; usually in the 200.00 entry range are great for sharpening your situational awareness skills. The last members standing share the cash.

55

People actually got murdered? The fuck?

56

[quote]Kirks wrote:
People actually got murdered? The fuck?[/quote]

Well, think about it: if you were a sick fuck serial killer, what better way to get away with a crime than blame it on a game like that gone wrong? Hell, if you’re a jilted lover/postal employee/insert crazy fuck then you’re going to be doing it anyway and it makes a great cover to blame the people involved with the game. I mean, if you have people killing each other over Xboxes and turkey legs (yes really, Thanksgiving turkey), then it’s really not too much of a stretch to consider some person using the Assassins game as a scapegoat/cover for a real reason to murder.

It wasn’t a part of the game, obviously.

More to the point though, is injuries sustained by paintballs to bystanders or faces. That’s much more likely than a serious killer. Hello litigation, hello bad press, hello “it’s dangerous! we have to stop it for the children! You could shoot someone’s eye out!”

57

[quote]Dude623 wrote:
You used to be able to play on craigslist , and there had been a few billboards in the beginning ( 1980’s). You would sign up and receive detailed target instructions your job was to hunt them down and put a paint ball center mass on them. Realize someone else had your number and was actively hunting you.

This was done in your normal life ( maybe take lunch off to go observe someone for a while). Guys started getting more creative ( the idea was to do it in a at least plausible manner) and got carried away with theatrics. Which brought unwanted attention to the game. There where a few incidences where people where either murdered or injured during the course of the game . This was running nationwide in every major city when the plug was pulled and everyone just disappeared. A few groups continue to play (at the risk of legal action) today around the country. As I said matches played with trusted group members for cash; usually in the 200.00 entry range are great for sharpening your situational awareness skills. The last members standing share the cash. [/quote]

Yep. Usually there’s a time limit for the game as well.

Also, I played (much more recently than the 80s or 90s) with water balloons and others water-soluble paint (not paintball guns). Obvious risks with unprotected faces and paintballs.

58

Man Sounds like fun. I was too young and sheltered in the 80s and most of the 90’s I was out in other countries

59

Ranzo I also received my education abroad courtesy of my uncle. 86-98

60

Pavel wrote a masterpiece of poetic truth a couple of months ago about this topic. Seriously, I hadn’t read something so poignant in a very long time. He mentioned the deteriorating human condition and how we view ourselves as we age and mentioned a story of a guy who was assassinated. A hitman follows him for 5 mins straight without the guys awareness, literally right behind him, all caught on cctv… The whole time, the victim is fingerling away on his phone… I’ll dig up the article