Single Moms!

This thread was about the topic of single moms.

The last ~50 comments have been back and forth tone policing, nitpicking, bad faith arguments, and pointless squabbling.
They’re not even about the topic, but the nonsense just continues anyways with no real resolve.

I consider many of these to be common behaviors found when arguing with women (or wives), but are often displayed by men these days (as evidenced by this thread and every other PWI thread to date).
You cannot win an argument if you engage in any of these bullshit tactics.

So if my wife starts up with any of this nonsense, I just walk away.

If attention is the currency, withdrawing it can be a powerful tool in curtailing behaviors you dont like.
Works with kids too.

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I’ve skipped over a lot of the discussion and so will restrict myself to the original topic of single moms. Canada has more single-parent families than almost anywhere else. Possibly more people now live alone in Canada than as couples.

It’s a problem. Children generally do better with two loving parents and more support than conflict. People generally do better with a supportive partner - emotionally, financially, in times of crisis, spiritually and in terms of fulfillment and self-actualization. Successful relationships have a ratio of more than three or four positive interactions to every negative one, but every rose has its thorns.

I see many causes for this problem. People are often poor at communicating their needs. They are getting worse. Unrealistic expectations are socialized from childhood - it’s fine to be a princess on your wedding day, but life is about reasonable compromise. Women are more supportive of each other to some degree, certainly much more willing to discuss and analyze problems with their buddies, and may convince friends it is better to bail, rather than put in the hard work of relationship repair when this would be the best option.

Male friends do stuff together. They like the escape from the routine of family life - so they don’t talk about their family unless asked. Women think men together bash women, but this is rarely true. If anything, they are showing each other bizarre text messages and trying to figure out what it might mean. Most men are not meta-communicators. Some women, not all, are more emotionally attuned and better at reading body language than men. I read women know 33,000 words but men only know 28,000. Is this true? No… it seems… wrong. In fact, I just made this up. But women will believe it! Adult women should absolutely have full sovereignty over their own bodies and any decisions they make about sex and motherhood. Sex should be about mutual enthusiastic consent. But equally, normal male behaviour should not be unfairly castigated.

Toxic masculinity is a thing, but there is nothing wrong with mainstream masculinity, and far fewer supports are available for men. I remember reading about a lifelong Democrat who decided to vote for Trump. He had organized a big fundraiser and speaker after speaker talked about progressive programs for many diverse and deserving groups. But then he thought, I’m a middle-class, middle-aged man with two kids. Where’s my program? Being attuned to modern sensibilities, valuing masculinity, overcoming the flaws in parenting everyone has, and adapting to changing cultural mores is a difficult balancing act for anyone.

More often than not, it is the woman who breaks up with the man. On average, she has been unhappy and contemplating this for over a year before doing this. The signs are often obvious in retrospect. She feels little romance and affection, sees little prospect of improvement, thinks the man is immature or unrealistic, and feels she does much more of the work. While this is often true, it also is often unfair. The man may be working too much because they both like nice things. Anyone can find faults if they try hard to find them. In successful marriages, the faults are either invisible, laughed off, or productively discussed diplomatically and without a sense of blame or attacking character. You want to help the other grow and improve, rather than merely judge. Financial constraints are a thing, but women obviously have far more options than they did a hundred years ago.

Although society rightly values motherhood, fatherhood can be diminished and mocked. But who learned how to be romantic, or to be a good father, in thousands of hours of schoolwork? Good thing you can still find the roots of a quadratic equation though. Relationship skills can be taught, like any skills. And skills are undervalued while mediocre university degrees are hyped.

Social media - offering the illusions of community and endless choice have made things worse. Online porn has sometimes made male expectations as out-of-whack as princess fantasies.

When I went to university, for various professional degrees, most of my classes were 75% or more male. At my local school, the ratios might now be reversed. School kids live up to the expectations you give them. So what caused this change? Are male students given the same attention and support as female students? Sure, this is a thread about single moms. But where are these women going to meet men, especially with their level of education, if women see that as a major focus, and many do? They feel they settle and then regret settling. Or they find it hard to meet anyone at all, and then find working and modern life leave them exhausted.

Parenting has also changed. Many working couples spend more time with their kids today then stay-at-home moms spent with their kids forty years ago. As kids, we were kicked out of the house and expected to play outside, which we did with minimal supervision all day long. In 1972, 90% of kids walked to school; in 2024 only 10% of children do. Helicopter parenting reduces confidence, and unscheduled play remains important.

Fathers went from being feared masters-of-the-house to friends, but also sometimes from being seen as leaders and social pillars to being more devalued. Things like “the silent treatment” cause damage, but there is nothing wrong with a brief withdrawal into “the man cave” and sometimes a little time or space is healthy.

It’s a wicked problem. It won’t be solved by technology, but by eschewing technology - building a new sense of community, reevaluating the role of work and productivity, supporting men as well as women, better and more equal education, valuing skills as well as academics, and properly prioritizing real socialization. The problem is not whether you win arguments with your wife, but whether you are happy and feel respected and understand this is not the same thing as winning. Not every battle is worth fighting, but some are and you need to have solid principles and stand up for them when needed. Still, many arguments are about frustration and other things, and not the trivia they purport to be.

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What does this have to do with single moms?

Have we solved single moms?

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That was an impressive post, bravo. Well worded, explained, and it achieved being pretty objective to both men and women as well.

Now, how does society initiate these CHANGES to help the nuclear, harmonious family to become the norm instead of the outlier model for a family, which it has sadly become. I know among my group of very close male friends growing up, 2 out of the 6 of us had our ORIGINAL mom and dad in the family home, the rest all had divorced parents with either single parents raising them or had step-families which, to me at the time, seemed to always be in a state of chaos.

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Define this please.

Yes, it’s the men’s fault for women choosing to leave. Didnt we already discuss this within the first few comments?

Reject modernity… reject all liberal trash… set the example…

Sometimes it is.

In fact, you could take my mother for example. She was actually running for her life.

It was pretty one sided. One of my first very early memories was my dad knocking her teeth out with me in her arms.

He was not a nice guy. She needed to leave.

Now I know its fun to dunk on insta-tramps and whatnot, but there really are mitigating circumstance which causes single motherhood.

My understanding of the value of the nuclear family was gotten by seeing the one I was part of destroyed, and living with the repercussions.

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Bring back SHAME ! Shame simps…shame sluts… shame fats… shame liberals…

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And widows!

Who do they think they are?

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Only war widows get a pass … and WESTPAC widows…

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Nooooooo!

If a woman marries a guy ×ho is or plans on being in the military and he gets killed or what ever, then she needs to suck it up and never show her face in public again!

Heaven forbid she ever experience happiness ever again.

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Don’t disagree

Return to traditional values!

Widows entombed with deceased husbands.

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I’m not sure I can define it well. There is nothing wrong with an occasional playfight, disagreement, poker game, drink of booze, practical joke, playing video games or gentle razzing. This is what guys have always done with their buddies.

In my mind, masculinity can become toxic when behaviours clearly break reasonable laws in a way that harms other people, are deeply unwanted, and are meant to be cruel and cause actual damage to others rather than be merely lighthearted fun. But it’s like trying to define “free speech”. Being rambunctious or iconoclastic can have an upside. But things go too far when they incite hatred or would objectively be seen as highly offensive by a reasonable person. This might include stalking behaviours or objective harassment or similar things. If four out of five folks agree something is over the top, it probably is. If it causes one person out of a hundred to clutch their pearls, it might not be that big a deal.

This is, of course, tangential to single moms.

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If I knew the answer to that, I’d be a much smarter and wiser person than I actually am.

But the nature of complicated “wicked” problems is that they are convoluted and very hard to even define. In some cases, even being able to define and articulate the problem goes a long way towards solving it.

But I don’t know how to reduce social media use. And people are deciding on their own to do that anyway, not because of my wishes or will. Individual rights are important but communities need to matter more. I don’t know how to make that happen.

No doubt.

Question (and i dont ask this with any negative connotation or insinuation):
Was your old man abusive to your mom before she chose to have kid(s) with him?

The old Norse way… burned alive

That’s lack of masculinity one could argue

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