Good article, though I really don’t agree with the notion that the ‘worst gay bashers are probably wrestling with gay feelings themselves’. I think it would be truer to say that they are afraid of being SEEN as being gay as opposed to being outed as ACTUALLY being gay (which is a pretty crucial difference).
[quote]pushharder wrote:
How long a lifetime you think you’ll have? Cuz I might take that bet.
At the least, the “can’t help it, born that way” tactic will be employed relentlessly. The “do you think they just woke up one day and decided to be a pedophile” line will be ubiquitous. And sure enough, the Shugart’s of 10, 20, 30 years from now will be writing articles on strength and fitness websites decrying the bashing of pedos because a new “consensus” will have formed.
I will surely bet on that. Will you?
[/quote]
Most people already accept that pedophiles can’t help it.
And, in spite of that, pedophiles are viewed as vile monsters if they ever give in to their desires. Because society has deemed that protecting children is more important.
Plus, as I’ve mentioned already, children and adults are on different levels as far as legal ability to act is concerned, particularly when it comes to sex.
I personally think the current conceptualization (that children cannot legally agree to most anything, particularly sex with legal adults) is bull for a couple of reasons. But, in any case, I’m still willing to bet my life that this won’t change within my lifetime.
Now, a question for you- I’m literally willing to bet my life on this issue. What will you put up?
[quote]pushharder wrote:
You need to learn the definition of literally. You’re one of those folks, I believe, that inaccurately swaps “figuratively” with “literally.”[/quote]
Oh no. I mean “literally”.
Of course, you gotta come find me to collect if I do lose the bet =P
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]kpsnap wrote:
Are you married, Push?
[/quote]
I kinda am. An accurate but cryptic answer and nonetheless it will have to suffice for now.
And if you knew what I meant by cryptic you’d likely have to admit I might just be a stellar example of the institution. A better one than you even.
[/quote]
Really? Interesting.
How is someone “kinda” married? Living together? But married at least once prior?
I concede that my statement regarding financial responsibility as it pertains to polygamists is not germane to the argument at hand and discriminatory.
So Push:
“kinda” married ?
Is that like “kinda” pregnant ?
Or are you married to “god”…
As in you are a Father, Preacher or Minister of some ilk ?
That would be the on "kinda’ definition of marriage that I
could figure you with. Anyway . … …
Oh, and Push:
Since I have the “balls” to come out here in what could be considered “hostile” territory because I am Queer, Atheist and an Intellectual,
how about you come out and tell us about your “kinda” marriage ?
[quote]killerDIRK wrote:
because I am Queer,[/quote]
What does queer even mean?
[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
Your argument would make more sense if marriage actually had a universally accepted behavioral definition. Marriage isn’t necessarily what you define it to be, neither is “normally accepted” homosexual behavior. You are approaching this with your own preconceived notions of behaviors and expectations and THEN expecting that the interpersonal relationships of OTHER people will have some sort of impact on you.
I have been married for 20 years, I hardly think that two dudes getting married will have any impact on how my wife would view me “stepping out”. The fundamental issue is that you live your own life, you create your own marriage and impart your own values to your kids (if you have any), what another couple does or doesn’t do should have zero impact on you, if it does maybe the problem isn’t them.[/quote]
My belief is you can’t debate an argument without understanding the other side. I was presenting my understanding of that side of the debate so I can’t carry this out to its logical end.
I will say this, you can’t get 100% adherence to everything. We set a standard as a society and we hope the proper leadership sets the direction and of enough people come on board, we willg get a good result for most people.
For example, I work with younger people a bit and I am pretty surprised at the number of girls who accept their partner cheating on them as just something guys need to do. Or what they consider normal sexual intimacy. I assume this is the influence of porn and media.
If you believe your relationship is immune from influence from the society it exists within, then I have very bad news for you, it’s a nice sentiment though.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
Tsantos,
Your argument would make more sense if marriage actually had a universally accepted behavioral definition. Marriage isn’t necessarily what you define it to be, neither is “normally accepted” homosexual behavior. You are approaching this with your own preconceived notions of behaviors and expectations and THEN expecting that the interpersonal relationships of OTHER people will have some sort of impact on you. I have been married for 20 years, I hardly think that two dudes getting married will have any impact on how my wife would view me “stepping out”. The fundamental issue is that you live your own life, you create your own marriage and impart your own values to your kids (if you have any), what another couple does or doesn’t do should have zero impact on you, if it does maybe the problem isn’t them.[/quote]
You missed his point but I’ll let him respond other than to say it’s not necessarily about individual by individual cases but society as a whole.
[/quote]
Push,
I missed the point? Feel free to read my first sentence again, try it twice if necessary.
[quote]tsantos wrote:
[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
Your argument would make more sense if marriage actually had a universally accepted behavioral definition. Marriage isn’t necessarily what you define it to be, neither is “normally accepted” homosexual behavior. You are approaching this with your own preconceived notions of behaviors and expectations and THEN expecting that the interpersonal relationships of OTHER people will have some sort of impact on you.
I have been married for 20 years, I hardly think that two dudes getting married will have any impact on how my wife would view me “stepping out”. The fundamental issue is that you live your own life, you create your own marriage and impart your own values to your kids (if you have any), what another couple does or doesn’t do should have zero impact on you, if it does maybe the problem isn’t them.[/quote]
My belief is you can’t debate an argument without understanding the other side. I was presenting my understanding of that side of the debate so I can’t carry this out to its logical end.
I will say this, you can’t get 100% adherence to everything. We set a standard as a society and we hope the proper leadership sets the direction and of enough people come on board, we willg get a good result for most people.
For example, I work with younger people a bit and I am pretty surprised at the number of girls who accept their partner cheating on them as just something guys need to do. Or what they consider normal sexual intimacy. I assume this is the influence of porn and media.
If you believe your relationship is immune from influence from the society it exists within, then I have very bad news for you, it’s a nice sentiment though.
[/quote]
tsantos,
As I said in my post, marriage means different things to different people. You pretty much allude to the same thing as far as changing attitudes on sex and relationships in your response. By the way, porn and media may have something to do with it, but I think it is the fact that people are becoming less concerned about what their elders think, what their priests/reverends/rabbis/imam etc. think and more concerned with what they find morally acceptable, be it open relationships or whatever. As far as my relationship goes, after 20 years of very happy marriage I can’t imagine how what someone else does in their bedroom would impact me (unless they were baking pies in there in which case please send me a bedroom pie, preferably apple.) even if they broadcast that shit on TV.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]killerDIRK wrote:
usmccds423:
just an observation. Because I could really give a rats red ass less about what people think. [/quote]
You observation is that “…those who preach Jesus are usually less tolerant than Born Again Pagan Queer’s…” and that somehow isn’t showing “…basic ignorance and intolerance…”
Just an observation on your post KillerDIRK.[/quote]
He did say usually. Not always.