push,
So they want to change the names of two elementary schools, 5 mile markers on the highway and a street name in Stockton? Yes I can see where this would destroy all of your freedoms.
[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
push,
So they want to change the names of two elementary schools, 5 mile markers on the highway and a street name in Stockton? Yes I can see where this would destroy all of your freedoms.[/quote]
That’s not the point is it?
The point is this bullshit does not stop with the banning of the confederate flag.
So what follows this latest move? We will have to change our money because those guys were slave owners?
IT’S PC CRAP!!
On board now?
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
push,
So they want to change the names of two elementary schools, 5 mile markers on the highway and a street name in Stockton? Yes I can see where this would destroy all of your freedoms.[/quote]
That’s not the point is it?
The point is this bullshit does not stop with the banning of the confederate flag.
So what follows this latest move? We will have to change our money because those guys were slave owners?
IT’S PC CRAP!!
On board now?[/quote]
Zeb,
Wait are you saying taking away one stupid, unimportant thing that nobody cares about can lead to losing other more important things? Ribbon and a bow.
Now the NAACP wants the stone mountain carving destroyed.
Speaking to a black community organization (a forerunner of the NAACP) in 1875:
“I came here with the jeers of some white people, who think that I am doing wrong. I believe I can exert some influence, and do much to assist the people in strengthening fraternal relations, and shall do all in my power to elevate every man - to depress none. I want to elevate you to take positions in law offices, in stores, on farms, and wherever you are capable of going.” … “I came to meet you as friends, and welcome you to the white people. I want you to come nearer to us. When I can serve you I will do so. We have but one flag, one country; let us stand together. We may differ in color, but not in sentiment. Many things have been said about me which are wrong, and which white and black persons here, who stood by me through the war, can contradict. Go to work, be industrious, live honestly and act truly, and when you are oppressed I’ll come to your relief.” - Nathan B. Forrest
This is getting absurd.
[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
push,
So they want to change the names of two elementary schools, 5 mile markers on the highway and a street name in Stockton? Yes I can see where this would destroy all of your freedoms.[/quote]
That’s not the point is it?
The point is this bullshit does not stop with the banning of the confederate flag.
So what follows this latest move? We will have to change our money because those guys were slave owners?
IT’S PC CRAP!!
On board now?[/quote]
Zeb,
Wait are you saying taking away one stupid, unimportant thing that nobody cares about can lead to losing other more important things? Ribbon and a bow.[/quote]
Its pretty freaking obvious isn’t it?
[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
Wait are you saying taking away one stupid, unimportant thing that nobody cares about can lead to losing other more important things? Ribbon and a bow.[/quote]
What gives you the right to dismiss what other people clearly care about as, “stupid” and “unimportant?”
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
Wait are you saying taking away one stupid, unimportant thing that nobody cares about can lead to losing other more important things? Ribbon and a bow.[/quote]
What gives you the right to dismiss what other people clearly care about as, “stupid” and “unimportant?”
[/quote]
USMC,
Despite the fact that probably nobody gives a shit? It’s two elementary schools and a street in Stockton, do you think anyone REALLY cares? But even if they did, so what? Does this infringe on someones rights?
[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
Wait are you saying taking away one stupid, unimportant thing that nobody cares about can lead to losing other more important things? Ribbon and a bow.[/quote]
What gives you the right to dismiss what other people clearly care about as, “stupid” and “unimportant?”
[/quote]
USMC,
Despite the fact that probably nobody gives a shit? It’s two elementary schools and a street in Stockton, do you think anyone REALLY cares? But even if they did, so what? Does this infringe on someones rights?
[/quote]
Oh, now it’s probably nobody cares, interesting… Obviously someone cares or we wouldn’t be talking about it.
It isn’t “Two elementary schools and a street in Stockton…” it’s two elementary schools, a street in Stockton, ever Army base named after a Confederate General, a TV show called the Dukes of Hazzard (maybe you’ve heard of it), the sale of a flag at every retail store, a statue of Andrew Jackson, badgering Kid Rock (and calling for GM to kill their sponsorship) because he uses a confederate flag in his act, etc…
You aren’t paying attention if you think this is just about the name of a couple schools and a road.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
Wait are you saying taking away one stupid, unimportant thing that nobody cares about can lead to losing other more important things? Ribbon and a bow.[/quote]
What gives you the right to dismiss what other people clearly care about as, “stupid” and “unimportant?”
[/quote]
USMC,
Despite the fact that probably nobody gives a shit? It’s two elementary schools and a street in Stockton, do you think anyone REALLY cares? But even if they did, so what? Does this infringe on someones rights?
[/quote]
Oh, now it’s probably nobody cares, interesting… Obviously someone cares or we wouldn’t be talking about it.
It isn’t “Two elementary schools and a street in Stockton…” it’s two elementary schools, a street in Stockton, ever Army base named after a Confederate General, a TV show called the Dukes of Hazzard (maybe you’ve heard of it), the sale of a flag at every retail store, a statue of Andrew Jackson, badgering Kid Rock (and calling for GM to kill their sponsorship) because he uses a confederate flag in his act, etc…
You aren’t paying attention if you think this is just about the name of a couple schools and a road. [/quote]
USMC,
This story is about 2 schools and a road in Stockton, that’s what I responded to. Are you asking if I think this whole thing is overkill? Well yes I do. Do I care about any of the things you mentioned? No, I don’t. I am overwhelmed in apathy towards them. However a number of people seem to be really riled up over it and they are doing something about it. Personally I couldn’t care less if they removed every monument to the confederacy, tore down all the flags etc. But I wouldn’t push to legislate it.
The big question is why? Why do people care if these streets/schools or even military bases get their names changed? How does it impact you? Why do you care?
[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
Wait are you saying taking away one stupid, unimportant thing that nobody cares about can lead to losing other more important things? Ribbon and a bow.[/quote]
What gives you the right to dismiss what other people clearly care about as, “stupid” and “unimportant?”
[/quote]
USMC,
Despite the fact that probably nobody gives a shit? It’s two elementary schools and a street in Stockton, do you think anyone REALLY cares? But even if they did, so what? Does this infringe on someones rights?
[/quote]
Oh, now it’s probably nobody cares, interesting… Obviously someone cares or we wouldn’t be talking about it.
It isn’t “Two elementary schools and a street in Stockton…” it’s two elementary schools, a street in Stockton, ever Army base named after a Confederate General, a TV show called the Dukes of Hazzard (maybe you’ve heard of it), the sale of a flag at every retail store, a statue of Andrew Jackson, badgering Kid Rock (and calling for GM to kill their sponsorship) because he uses a confederate flag in his act, etc…
You aren’t paying attention if you think this is just about the name of a couple schools and a road. [/quote]
USMC,
This story is about 2 schools and a road in Stockton, that’s what I responded to. Are you asking if I think this whole thing is overkill? Well yes I do. Do I care about any of the things you mentioned? No, I don’t. I am overwhelmed in apathy towards them. However a number of people seem to be really riled up over it and they are doing something about it. Personally I couldn’t care less if they removed every monument to the confederacy, tore down all the flags etc. But I wouldn’t push to legislate it.
[/quote]
The world doesn’t exist in a bubble. This is yet another piece of straw added to the Camel’s back.
By the time we get to something you do care about it’ll probably be to late.
[quote]
How does it impact you? [/quote]
It doesn’t impact me, yet.
[quote]
Why do you care? [/quote]
I’m tired of this everything has to be politically correct government fix all bullshit. Tired of it.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
Wait are you saying taking away one stupid, unimportant thing that nobody cares about can lead to losing other more important things? Ribbon and a bow.[/quote]
What gives you the right to dismiss what other people clearly care about as, “stupid” and “unimportant?”
[/quote]
USMC,
Despite the fact that probably nobody gives a shit? It’s two elementary schools and a street in Stockton, do you think anyone REALLY cares? But even if they did, so what? Does this infringe on someones rights?
[/quote]
Oh, now it’s probably nobody cares, interesting… Obviously someone cares or we wouldn’t be talking about it.
It isn’t “Two elementary schools and a street in Stockton…” it’s two elementary schools, a street in Stockton, ever Army base named after a Confederate General, a TV show called the Dukes of Hazzard (maybe you’ve heard of it), the sale of a flag at every retail store, a statue of Andrew Jackson, badgering Kid Rock (and calling for GM to kill their sponsorship) because he uses a confederate flag in his act, etc…
You aren’t paying attention if you think this is just about the name of a couple schools and a road. [/quote]
USMC,
This story is about 2 schools and a road in Stockton, that’s what I responded to. Are you asking if I think this whole thing is overkill? Well yes I do. Do I care about any of the things you mentioned? No, I don’t. I am overwhelmed in apathy towards them. However a number of people seem to be really riled up over it and they are doing something about it. Personally I couldn’t care less if they removed every monument to the confederacy, tore down all the flags etc. But I wouldn’t push to legislate it.
[/quote]
The world doesn’t exist in a bubble. This is yet another piece of straw added to the Camel’s back.
By the time we get to something you do care about it’ll probably be to late.
[quote]
How does it impact you? [/quote]
It doesn’t impact me, yet.
[quote]
Why do you care? [/quote]
I’m tired of this everything has to be politically correct government fix all bullshit. Tired of it. [/quote]
USMC,
Contrary to your statement I care about a number of issues, keeping or doing away with that flag is not one of them. There is no redeeming value to the ANV flag, it is just a sad reminder of a bad idea, there is no need to name schools/roads/bases after people that were effectively treasonous idiots, but signage costs money so I don’t care if they stay or go. Nobody made Wal-Mart stop selling flags, they chose it. The flag is not illegal, just in poor taste and at best a tacky fixture on your house, car or body, and at worst an offensive one.
This PC bullshit you speak of is the direct result of people refusing to do the decent thing and instead turning everything into “I’ll see you in court.” We all have to live together, if that means you get a little less of what you want and I get a little less of what I want, so what, it’s compromise. It’s when we refuse to accept that basic truth that shit gets stupid, a baker gets whacked with $135 k fine, John Schneider loses his TV land residuals, and a street in Stockton becomes Malcolm X Blvd (probably not but that would be some funny shit).
Rant [I call this a rant because I won’t be devoting a bunch of time to fighting this out again]:
Proposition: Nothing owned/funded by the taxpayer is to be named after political/military leaders of [an enemy country of the United States] that was [created explicitly in order to protect and proliferate an institution whereby black slaves were legally owned as property]. Either bracketed fact is sufficient. The two in combination are overkill.
In 2015, it is normal for people not to want to take their children to a publicly-funded school/park that is named after someone who killed Americans because he seceded from the union in the suspicion that maybe the property-status of slaves was under threat from northern meddling and obstructionism. Nobody’s rights are being trampled or even lightly touched – this isn’t about the commemorative plates you might want to eat off of or the sheets you might want to cover your bed with.
But it is fascinating to discover that, after all, people here do in fact feel perfectly correct and comfortable when commenting on events/decisions/controversies in a state in which they don’t live. One wouldn’t have guessed at such a thing a few weeks ago when it was being suggested (in a continuous loop and by many different posters) that what South Carolina does vis-a-vis Confederate colors was not to be commented upon by a New Yorker. I suppose that logic changes by the week.
Rant over.
[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
Wait are you saying taking away one stupid, unimportant thing that nobody cares about can lead to losing other more important things? Ribbon and a bow.[/quote]
What gives you the right to dismiss what other people clearly care about as, “stupid” and “unimportant?”
[/quote]
USMC,
Despite the fact that probably nobody gives a shit? It’s two elementary schools and a street in Stockton, do you think anyone REALLY cares? But even if they did, so what? Does this infringe on someones rights?
[/quote]
Oh, now it’s probably nobody cares, interesting… Obviously someone cares or we wouldn’t be talking about it.
It isn’t “Two elementary schools and a street in Stockton…” it’s two elementary schools, a street in Stockton, ever Army base named after a Confederate General, a TV show called the Dukes of Hazzard (maybe you’ve heard of it), the sale of a flag at every retail store, a statue of Andrew Jackson, badgering Kid Rock (and calling for GM to kill their sponsorship) because he uses a confederate flag in his act, etc…
You aren’t paying attention if you think this is just about the name of a couple schools and a road. [/quote]
USMC,
This story is about 2 schools and a road in Stockton, that’s what I responded to. Are you asking if I think this whole thing is overkill? Well yes I do. Do I care about any of the things you mentioned? No, I don’t. I am overwhelmed in apathy towards them. However a number of people seem to be really riled up over it and they are doing something about it. Personally I couldn’t care less if they removed every monument to the confederacy, tore down all the flags etc. But I wouldn’t push to legislate it.
[/quote]
The world doesn’t exist in a bubble. This is yet another piece of straw added to the Camel’s back.
By the time we get to something you do care about it’ll probably be to late.
[quote]
How does it impact you? [/quote]
It doesn’t impact me, yet.
[quote]
Why do you care? [/quote]
I’m tired of this everything has to be politically correct government fix all bullshit. Tired of it. [/quote]
USMC,
Contrary to your statement I care about a number of issues, keeping or doing away with that flag is not one of them. [/quote]
Smh… I didn’t say you don’t care about anything. I said, “By the time we get to something you do care about it’ll probably be to late.”
As in, it’ll be done away with and there’ll be nothing you can do about it.
[quote]
There is no redeeming value to the ANV flag, it is just a sad reminder of a bad idea, there is no need to name schools/roads/bases after people that were effectively treasonous idiots, but signage costs money so I don’t care if they stay or go. [/quote]
It has historical significance. Street name hurt no one. School names hurt no one. There is no reason to change any of them. It’s absurd.
[quote]
Nobody made Wal-Mart stop selling flags, they chose it. [/quote]
That’s true.
[quote]
The flag is not illegal, just in poor taste and at best a tacky fixture on your house, car or body, and at worst an offensive one. [/quote]
Lol, it’s tacky huh. I’m glad you cleared that up.
[quote]
This PC bullshit you speak of is the direct result of people refusing to do the decent thing and instead turning everything into “I’ll see you in court.” [/quote]
That is such bullshit.
[quote]
We all have to live together, if that means you get a little less of what you want and I get a little less of what I want, so what, it’s compromise. [/quote]
It isn’t a compromise if the government forces it upon you. Compromising is a voluntary otherwise it’s coercion.
Well, I sure am glad we have the almighty government to force us to accept these things…
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
Rant [I call this a rant because I won’t be devoting a bunch of time to fighting this out again]:
Proposition: Nothing owned/funded by the taxpayer is to be named after political/military leaders of [an enemy country of the United States] that was [created explicitly in order to protect and proliferate an institution whereby black slaves were legally owned as property]. Either bracketed fact is sufficient. The two in combination are overkill.
In 2015, it is normal for people not to want to take their children to a publicly-funded school/park that is named after someone who killed Americans because he seceded from the union in the suspicion that maybe the property-status of slaves was under threat from northern meddling and obstructionism. Nobody’s rights are being trampled or even lightly touched – this isn’t about the commemorative plates you might want to eat off of or the sheets you might want to cover your bed with.
But it is fascinating to discover that, after all, people here do in fact feel perfectly correct and comfortable when commenting on events/decisions/controversies in a state in which they don’t live. One wouldn’t have guessed at such a thing a few weeks ago when it was being suggested (in a continuous loop and by many different posters) that what South Carolina does vis-a-vis Confederate colors was not to be commented upon by a New Yorker. I suppose that logic changes by the week.
Rant over.[/quote]
That only really holds if you first assume the right of secession doesn’t exist. If you take the other side, it was the North that invaded a separate country and many got killed doing it. And the “right” of it was ultimately decided by nothing more than brute force.
As for your slavery exclusion, if we exclude countries/times/people that fought for slavery, let’s get out the history books and look at the war of 1812. I guess the “star spangle banner” gets the ax since its celebrating a country fighting for the preservation of its slaves. Goodbye James Madison. We need to start tearing down some more parks too on this one.
Also, I grew up in Atlanta and paid some tax dollars there so I feel like I can have an opinion on a park I went to regularly as a kid.
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
Rant [I call this a rant because I won’t be devoting a bunch of time to fighting this out again]:
Proposition: Nothing owned/funded by the taxpayer is to be named after political/military leaders of [an enemy country of the United States] that was [created explicitly in order to protect and proliferate an institution whereby black slaves were legally owned as property]. Either bracketed fact is sufficient. The two in combination are overkill.
In 2015, it is normal for people not to want to take their children to a publicly-funded school/park that is named after someone who killed Americans because he seceded from the union in the suspicion that maybe the property-status of slaves was under threat from northern meddling and obstructionism. Nobody’s rights are being trampled or even lightly touched – this isn’t about the commemorative plates you might want to eat off of or the sheets you might want to cover your bed with.
[/quote]
You know smh, I honestly don’t care anymore. Re-name every road, school, park, etc… that has anything to do with the confederacy. I don’t want anyone’s feelings to get hurt. I know most 5 year old’s using the parks are well aware of who Stonewall Jackson was and since most children are well versed in U.S. history I would hate to put parents in the position to have to talk to their children about America’s checkered past.
When we’re finished whitewashing the nation of the confederacy we should turn to religion. We should change every street name, park, school, etc… with any religious connotation what so ever. I don’t want anyone’s feelings to get hurt. I know most 5 year old’s using the parks are well aware of religion and since most children are well versed in the various religions of this world I would hate for parent to have to talk to their children about religion or religious freedom.
When we’re finished whitewashing the nation of religion we should turn to anything revolving around Vietnam. I’m sure there are Vietnamese immigrants that are offended by the Vietnam war memorial. We need to tear it down. The statue of the Marines and Sailor that raised the flag over Iwo Jima that sits on Parris Island has got to go. I’m sure many Japanese residents are deeply offended by our boast over their defeat with such a monument. Forcing Snyder to change the Redskin’s name is well overdue. Same with the Fighting Irish, Seminoles, etc… All offense to someone so they must all go. Saint Jude’s Children’s Hospital has to be renamed. There are atheists who’s children deserve treatment and shouldn’t have to feel offended when receiving treatment. We’ve already got a California politician moving to strike the terms husband and wife from state documents so we’ve got that covered already. We’ve gotta make sure the gays aren’t offended. Let’s not even talk about how many things need to be re-named so they’re gender neutral.
I’m rambling, but whatever. I’ll ramble on and on while it’s still legal to do so.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
When we’re finished whitewashing the nation of the confederacy
[/quote]
I am not talking about whitewashing. We should very much remember everything about the Confederacy, and we should teach all of it to our kids.
But to name a school after someone is to celebrate and commemorate that person. It is inappropriate for public property to so commemorate Confederate leaders, because the CSA was created in order to safeguard the future of black slavery. At which specific step in the foregoing logical progression do you disagree?
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
When we’re finished whitewashing the nation of the confederacy
[/quote]
I am not talking about whitewashing. We should very much remember everything about the Confederacy, and we should teach all of it to our kids.
But to name a school after someone is to celebrate and commemorate that person. It is inappropriate for public property to so commemorate Confederate leaders, because the CSA was created in order to safeguard the future of black slavery. At which specific step in the foregoing logical progression do you disagree?[/quote]
I don’t disagree with the logic so much as I fear it’s eventuality.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
Rant [I call this a rant because I won’t be devoting a bunch of time to fighting this out again]:
Proposition: Nothing owned/funded by the taxpayer is to be named after political/military leaders of [an enemy country of the United States] that was [created explicitly in order to protect and proliferate an institution whereby black slaves were legally owned as property]. Either bracketed fact is sufficient. The two in combination are overkill.
In 2015, it is normal for people not to want to take their children to a publicly-funded school/park that is named after someone who killed Americans because he seceded from the union in the suspicion that maybe the property-status of slaves was under threat from northern meddling and obstructionism. Nobody’s rights are being trampled or even lightly touched – this isn’t about the commemorative plates you might want to eat off of or the sheets you might want to cover your bed with.
But it is fascinating to discover that, after all, people here do in fact feel perfectly correct and comfortable when commenting on events/decisions/controversies in a state in which they don’t live. One wouldn’t have guessed at such a thing a few weeks ago when it was being suggested (in a continuous loop and by many different posters) that what South Carolina does vis-a-vis Confederate colors was not to be commented upon by a New Yorker. I suppose that logic changes by the week.
Rant over.[/quote]
That only really holds if you first assume the right of secession doesn’t exist. If you take the other side, it was the North that invaded a separate country and many got killed doing it. And the “right” of it was ultimately decided by nothing more than brute force.[/quote]
No, it was an enemy country either way, and it seceded in order to protect slavery. The futile and in fact meaningless question of a “right of secession” has no bearing on the simple progression of historical events.
[quote]
As for your slavery exclusion, if we exclude countries/times/people that fought for slavery, let’s get out the history books and look at the war of 1812. I guess the “star spangle banner” gets the ax since its celebrating a country fighting for the preservation of its slaves.[/quote]
I’m not sure you have a good handle on the War of 1812. How about you come up with primary and direct evidence for slavery as a major/the primary factor in that historical event (and a major/primary motivator of the U.S.), and I’ll do the same for the creation of the CSA, and we’ll see who ends up with a strong case for pushing symbols off of public property.
It should have been clear to you that I think you can have an opinion whether you went to the park or not. I was mocking the stupid suggestion that I should not have been expressing opinions about S.C.'s CSA colors (because I don’t live there) by making the point that the people up in arms about this legislation don’t live in California.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
When we’re finished whitewashing the nation of the confederacy
[/quote]
I am not talking about whitewashing. We should very much remember everything about the Confederacy, and we should teach all of it to our kids.
But to name a school after someone is to celebrate and commemorate that person. It is inappropriate for public property to so commemorate Confederate leaders, because the CSA was created in order to safeguard the future of black slavery. At which specific step in the foregoing logical progression do you disagree?[/quote]
I don’t disagree with the logic so much as I fear it’s eventuality. [/quote]
That is understandable. However, the thing about slippery slopes is that they aren’t necessary. It’s up to us to apply good logic until it’s not good and, at that point, to turn around and fight the bad logic.