Shogun

Just to clarify things, I’m the John who’s doing the renegade training and trying out for his school’s track team (no news on that yet). I noticed that someone else is using the same name for a while now, so I’ll just add my last initial from now on to distinguish.

Anyways, I read Chris Shugart's article "Sex, the Samurai, and You" a while ago. In it he refers to James Clavell's novel Shogun, because it was the basis for the article. Being a student of Japanese/Chinese culture and language myself, I decided to read it. I finished it, and I must say it's the best book I've ever read. Like Chris said all the sex, swordfighting, and seppuku was good, but the parts not about decapitation and samurai disemboweling themselves were cool too. I'd like to hear what anyone else who's read it thought about the book. I'm also interested in reading Clavell's other books (Tai-Pan, King Rat, etc), so I'd like to know what Chris or anyone else thought of them.

I read Shogun after reading Chris’s article too. Overall I thought it was good but Clavell uses seppuku too much. He has people ready to kill themselves at the drop of a hat.

If you want to know more about the period that immediately precedes that book in real history you should read Taiko by Eiji Yoshikawa(sp?). Its a great book with all the stuff Shogun has, except the sex though, and it is about a real person.

I picked up the book over Christmas break, but my progress through it was retarded by the resumption of classes. I’m only on about page 800 now, but I have really enjoyed it thusfar. Seeing as how you’re a student of Japanese culture, how well did you think the author captured the Japanese mindset for the time, and how well do you think that transfers to the mindset there today?

I never read the other books for some reason, although Shogun was great. Clavell, BTW, gets a lot of criticism from Japanese historians. They think he was way off on certain aspects and the language was wrong in many places. Still, I think he captures the whole mood and mindset of those times. I was in culture shock just reading it.

I’ve read em all at least 3 times. I absolutely love the books, and I have tai-pan and shogun on tape. Phenomenal writing.

Here’s a post I can comment on…
I read Shogun a long time ago and it got me hooked into reading all of J. Clavell’s other books. My favorite of them all was King Rat and it is one of the few books I have actually read more than once. Read Shogun twice, but King Rat 3 times. If you really want the feel of the times of the Samurai, read “Musashi,” by Eiji Yoshikawa. I never read the other book reccommended from the same author earlier, but I’ve read “Musashi” at least once a year for the last 8 Years. It’s my all time favorite book and since I’m somewhat of a bookworm that’s saying a lot. I think I’ll go check out Amazon for that other book now. You won’t go wrong with the other books by Clavell… Happy reading!

Chris, you MUST read tai-pain. It’s set in more modern times in Hong Kong, but it’s well worth the read.

Shogun does catch the Japanese mindset of that time well, especially the aspects of bushido: honor, and duty to one’s family, lord, emperor, etc being of utmost importance. That way of thinking stayed around for a while, for the samurai only lost their power in the 1800’s. But the mindset still lingered for a while (kamikaze pilots in WWII). By now, Japan’s been westernized to some degree (parliament, some individualism, etc), but they still have this importance on duty to the group.

I seem to remember reading about how Shogun was a bit too Americanized to make for more exciting reading. It was put on the same level as those old westerns with all the cheezy quickdraw scenes and cliche images of indians and rough and tough cowboys. Good cinema, but a bit elaborated to keep up interest.
I really did like Shogun, but for the realism I don’t think any western author can capture the mindset and attitude. For this reason I prefer “Musashi.” An elaborated biograpy of an actual samurai writted by a Japanese author.


I’m sure it was also spiced up quite a bit as all legends are, but Musashi is a real hero in Japan so you have to expect that.
Also, good luck studying. The Japanese feudal history is to me a very interresting topic, but the people are the most racist, bigoted, five-faced people I have ever had the pleasure of experiencing. I still love it there, though.
Little story… After a friend and I climbed Fuji we were just reaching the bottom at about six at night. We had no plans on how to get back and there was only one car left in the lot. A young Japanese couple was just getting ready to leave and we were so tired that we just decided to ask for a ride. They spoke no English and we spoke no Japanese. We were nasty, dirty, stinky and obviously very stupid American soldiers for climbing Fuji in the winter. They gave us a ride and even gave us some food to eat. Unbelievable. I don’t think an American can ever really understand them. They are way too contradictory.
Wow! That’s a long response!

Shogun is a great book. The others are good too, but Shogun is the granddaddy of 'em all. I think Clavell did very well in capturing the spirit of the times, as well as in depicting the flavor of the Japanese language in English. I didn’t notice any of the mistakes that Chris Shugart talks about earlier in the thread, but maybe his Japanese is better than mine!

Shogun is a great book but it is westernized. Musashi is a definite must read. Musashi was one of the greatest swordsman in japan, undefeated in over 60 duels to the death. complete badass. He wrote the book of five rings which is a great book on fight strategy, physical or mental.

Okay, I went and bought a copy of Musashi yesterday. The $35.00 price tag made me choke a little, but if it’s as good as you guys say, I have no problem spending the money.

Gary, since you’ve been to Japan before, I’d like to hear any stories, advice, or information you’d be willing to share. One of my goals is to visit both China and Japan someday.