[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
Back on topic.
Sign of the times?
This is a sign on a restroom at my university gym (not the locker room). I always thought the sign with the stick figure in pants with the stick figure in a skirt was already fairly inclusive, as in “Everybody welcome to potty here.” I put this picture on my facebook feed and got a lot of funny comments.
[/quote]
Is this the only restroom or are there 2 others?
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
Doctor assisted suicide? Really? That’s where we are drawing the big line to say Americans are moving left? [/quote]
A good argument could be made that favoring Dr. assisted suicide is about as conservative as one could get.
[/quote]
Fiscally sure.
But it’s still State Sponsored/Condoned Killing. I’ve very torn on the subject myself. [/quote]
How is it state sponsored? Am I reading it wrong? If I’m in pain and terminally ill and ask my doctor to help me end the pain (and my life) isn’t that a decision between myself and my doctor?
Perhaps I’m missing some part of it beans?
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
Back on topic.
Sign of the times?
This is a sign on a restroom at my university gym (not the locker room). I always thought the sign with the stick figure in pants with the stick figure in a skirt was already fairly inclusive, as in “Everybody welcome to potty here.” I put this picture on my facebook feed and got a lot of funny comments.
[/quote]
Is this the only restroom or are there 2 others?
[/quote]
These are the only two restrooms on the first floor, unless you want to go in a locker room. They are single toilet bathrooms, so you wouldn’t be walked in on by anyone. 
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
Doctor assisted suicide? Really? That’s where we are drawing the big line to say Americans are moving left? [/quote]
A good argument could be made that favoring Dr. assisted suicide is about as conservative as one could get.
[/quote]
Fiscally sure.
But it’s still State Sponsored/Condoned Killing. I’ve very torn on the subject myself. [/quote]
How is it state sponsored? Am I reading it wrong? If I’m in pain and terminally ill and ask my doctor to help me end the pain (and my life) isn’t that a decision between myself and my doctor?
Perhaps I’m missing some part of it beans? [/quote]
A third party is ending your life, your death isn’t from natural causes. (It would be eventually, but not at that juncture.)That, by definition, is murder. For the doctor to not be prosecuted, that means the state sponsors the action by default. (Similar to abortion.)
Again I’m torn on the matter. I don’t personally give a shit if someone commits suicide. If they don’t care about their life, why should I? However the unintended consequences of such legislation or general apathy towards this are rather frightening. We aren’t talking about building a highway system that severely alters ecosystems, which can be rectified here. We’re talking about people asking to die, and someone helping them…
[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
Threadjack for kaaleppi -
We’re watching this with some Finnish friends tonight. I didn’t realize you people are so creepy. 
There are a lot of Finns in Michigan, particularly in the North. The are a hard drinking, tough and dour bunch.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
Doctor assisted suicide? Really? That’s where we are drawing the big line to say Americans are moving left? [/quote]
A good argument could be made that favoring Dr. assisted suicide is about as conservative as one could get.
[/quote]
Fiscally sure.
But it’s still State Sponsored/Condoned Killing. I’ve very torn on the subject myself. [/quote]
How is it state sponsored? Am I reading it wrong? If I’m in pain and terminally ill and ask my doctor to help me end the pain (and my life) isn’t that a decision between myself and my doctor?
Perhaps I’m missing some part of it beans? [/quote]
A third party is ending your life, your death isn’t from natural causes. (It would be eventually, but not at that juncture.)That, by definition, is murder. For the doctor to not be prosecuted, that means the state sponsors the action by default. (Similar to abortion.)
Again I’m torn on the matter. I don’t personally give a shit if someone commits suicide. If they don’t care about their life, why should I? However the unintended consequences of such legislation or general apathy towards this are rather frightening. We aren’t talking about building a highway system that severely alters ecosystems, which can be rectified here. We’re talking about people asking to die, and someone helping them…
[/quote]
I get that but doctor assisted suicide is almost always when an individual chooses to have help to end their life because of suffering from a terminal disease. To me saying “You can’t do that you must die naturally” is more big government than the other side hence (I think) Blue saying it could be a conservative position. From the playing God position it may be liberal.
Guess it depends on how you look at it. Either way it’s a poor metric imo for we are becoming more left. I still think the vast majority of sucess in the last 4 years at the state and local level has been conservative victories not liberal ones. The presidency eludes them yes, but big majorities in almost everything else.
[quote]H factor wrote:
Either way it’s a poor metric imo for we are becoming more left. [/quote]
I can agree with this. As to the actual topic of assisted suicide, I’m still pretty torn on it, so I’d rather not get too much into it.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
So I can’t say I’m surprised nor particularly bothered by most of these, nor do I necessarily see all these as “leftist” positions.
I would like to hear what you think about this though.
In particular I found the whole “harvest babies for science, but don’t test on animals” swings rather amusing in a “we aren’t civilized at all” sort of way. [/quote]
More people accepting of marital affairs? I didn’t know that was a liberal position. So liberals are for affairs too? It’s on that list.
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
Threadjack for kaaleppi -
We’re watching this with some Finnish friends tonight. I didn’t realize you people are so creepy.
[/quote]
There are a lot of Finns in Michigan, particularly in the North. The are a hard drinking, tough and dour bunch.[/quote]
Hey Testy. That struck me as a little bit funny. This group of people leave the bitter cold of Finland and settle in …wait for it… Northern Michigan.
Your comment about the Finns being a tough bunch reminded me of the concept of “Sisu” which is kind of like the Finnish ethos. People will put it on license plate frames there, and it means having stoic determination in the face of adversity, or “having guts.”
Some very reserved people. See picture of Finns waiting at a bus stop.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
So I can’t say I’m surprised nor particularly bothered by most of these, nor do I necessarily see all these as “leftist” positions.
I would like to hear what you think about this though.
In particular I found the whole “harvest babies for science, but don’t test on animals” swings rather amusing in a “we aren’t civilized at all” sort of way. [/quote]
More people accepting of marital affairs? I didn’t know that was a liberal position. So liberals are for affairs too? It’s on that list.[/quote]
Well, there was only a 1% shift, so not much of a change on that one. I was surprised - in a good way - that the numbers of Americans who find extramarital affairs acceptable was only 8%. In contrast, check out this article on the French. It gives some numbers on a few other countries as well.
[quote]H factor wrote:
I get that but doctor assisted suicide is almost always when an individual chooses to have help to end their life because of suffering from a terminal disease. To me saying “You can’t do that you must die naturally” is more big government than the other side hence (I think) Blue saying it could be a conservative position. From the playing God position it may be liberal.
[/quote]
A common argument against doctor assisted suicide is that it may not actually be something the individual wants. Rather, an individual may be pressured into it through hearing what their relatives and doctors say. Sure, the individual may ultimately say “I want to die, please kill me”, or was it completely out of their free will?
Of course, the shortfall of such an argument is that it’s incredibly difficult to argue that ANY of our decisions are ever made out of our free will. We are always pressured by something to make decisions.
In any case, there it is. And, yes, it is a very complex issue. Lots of things to think about. The fact that it’s used as a metric to determine whether we’re becoming more liberal or not is silly. It’s perfectly clear that we’re becoming more liberal. That’s why gays are accepted now. That’s why transsexuals aren’t treated as freaks now.
Oh, and Mike Huckabee’s comment on Bruce Jenner and transsexualism was really dumb.
[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
Threadjack for kaaleppi -
We’re watching this with some Finnish friends tonight. I didn’t realize you people are so creepy.
[/quote]
There are a lot of Finns in Michigan, particularly in the North. The are a hard drinking, tough and dour bunch.[/quote]
Hey Testy. That struck me as a little bit funny. This group of people leave the bitter cold of Finland and settle in …wait for it… Northern Michigan.
Your comment about the Finns being a tough bunch reminded me of the concept of “Sisu” which is kind of like the Finnish ethos. People will put it on license plate frames there, and it means having stoic determination in the face of adversity, or “having guts.”
Some very reserved people. See picture of Finns waiting at a bus stop. [/quote]
Finns in America, short presentation of a photoproject by Vesa Oja.
[quote]kaaleppi wrote:
[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
Threadjack for kaaleppi -
We’re watching this with some Finnish friends tonight. I didn’t realize you people are so creepy.
[/quote]
There are a lot of Finns in Michigan, particularly in the North. The are a hard drinking, tough and dour bunch.[/quote]
Hey Testy. That struck me as a little bit funny. This group of people leave the bitter cold of Finland and settle in …wait for it… Northern Michigan.
Your comment about the Finns being a tough bunch reminded me of the concept of “Sisu” which is kind of like the Finnish ethos. People will put it on license plate frames there, and it means having stoic determination in the face of adversity, or “having guts.”
Some very reserved people. See picture of Finns waiting at a bus stop. [/quote]
Finns in America, short presentation of a photoproject by Vesa Oja.[/quote]
Cool. Thanks! That was interesting.
The family we know here is a young American man who lived in Finland and speaks the language fluently. He married a Finnish girl who came to the US to attend university. They speak Finnish at home to their kids. His wife is a very kind, very warm person. We got to know them when our son came up with the crazy goal of learning Finnish. So they welcomed this kid hanging out at their house after school and eating dinner with them, and babysitting for them in exchange for language practice with their little family. She’s a very athletic, very outdoorsy, very industrious person which is how I picture Finns. And incredibly smart. She learned English at age 9, then added Swedish and Russian. That kind of language skill is unheard of here in the states. Beautiful blond, and beautiful on the inside too. I’m hoping my son runs into a lot of people like that. And hey, if he someday ended up with a beautiful Finn for a wife, there are worse things!
[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
So I can’t say I’m surprised nor particularly bothered by most of these, nor do I necessarily see all these as “leftist” positions.
I would like to hear what you think about this though.
In particular I found the whole “harvest babies for science, but don’t test on animals” swings rather amusing in a “we aren’t civilized at all” sort of way. [/quote]
More people accepting of marital affairs? I didn’t know that was a liberal position. So liberals are for affairs too? It’s on that list.[/quote]
Well, there was only a 1% shift, so not much of a change on that one. I was surprised - in a good way - that the numbers of Americans who find extramarital affairs acceptable was only 8%. In contrast, check out this article on the French. It gives some numbers on a few other countries as well.
[/quote]
France, they’re funny. They sure are into their sex.
Anyway, it wasn’t really that the number was low, or even that it went up 1%, but that it was put on the list as a liberal tenet. I just didn’t know that cheating was a liberal tenet. I thought it was a strange thing to put on the list.
[quote]magick wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
I get that but doctor assisted suicide is almost always when an individual chooses to have help to end their life because of suffering from a terminal disease. To me saying “You can’t do that you must die naturally” is more big government than the other side hence (I think) Blue saying it could be a conservative position. From the playing God position it may be liberal.
[/quote]
A common argument against doctor assisted suicide is that it may not actually be something the individual wants. Rather, an individual may be pressured into it through hearing what their relatives and doctors say. Sure, the individual may ultimately say “I want to die, please kill me”, or was it completely out of their free will?
Of course, the shortfall of such an argument is that it’s incredibly difficult to argue that ANY of our decisions are ever made out of our free will. We are always pressured by something to make decisions.
In any case, there it is. And, yes, it is a very complex issue. Lots of things to think about. The fact that it’s used as a metric to determine whether we’re becoming more liberal or not is silly. It’s perfectly clear that we’re becoming more liberal. That’s why gays are accepted now. That’s why transsexuals aren’t treated as freaks now.
Oh, and Mike Huckabee’s comment on Bruce Jenner and transsexualism was really dumb.[/quote]
I just think if you want to kill yourself, you shouldn’t involve anybody else in the effort. There are plenty of ways to off yourself, by yourself.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
Yep.
I often find myself in the strange position of supporting some things that I personally don’t participate in or even that sometimes go against my own moral compass for the sake of individual freedom, and also for pragmatic reasons. [/quote]
It’s frustrating, yet at the same time, liberating and generally more healthy. I haven’t lost my convictions, and when in the mood I’ll speak my mind, etc, but I just dont’ have the will to seek out political or social fights anymore. (Shit I don’t have the will to fight with my family, including my toddler who is just like dad, with enough mom mixed in that I have full on arguments about appropriate behavior at 630am…)
It does at times feel like I’ve “given up the fight for what is right, and just in the world, and my complacency is only adding to the destruction”. But then I think back to the early point in my life where I was a collectivist’s wet dream and thought the world was ending because 43 was in office and people were actually dumb enough to vote republican…
I fade back and forth between “we’re doomed” and “don’t like macro economic and political issues steer your life”. Maybe I’m still part of the problem.
I stopped smoking years ago, but weed isn’t going to help him during PMS at all, lol. [/quote]
Thinking about this -
We have legal medical marijuana here in CA, which effectively means we have legal recreational use because anyone can get a med card for common issues like headaches or anxiety. You have to go the the trouble of getting a prescription instead of just going to the store like in Colorado, but it’s not hard.
I was surprised that acceptance of marijuana use wasn’t on the poll. Do you think it wouldn’t be considered “shifting left?” They listed some issues related to medical technology, but not medicinal marijuana use.
So “Wife has PMS” is probably not the way to go here. You have to say “Wife’s PMS is causing headache or anxiety.” LOL! I don’t know a lot about it, but it seems like someone needs to mellow out. I think you’re telling me it should be the person who actually has PMS? I don’t know, but it seems like “pot brownies a few days per month” is better than “getting a divorce” on the morality scale.
[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
Do you think it wouldn’t be considered “shifting left?” They listed some issues related to medical technology, but not medicinal marijuana use. [/quote]
I don’t know. In contemporary American politics dating back to say 1950 or so, yes it is a left-esk swing. I happen to agree with the left on it, and weed should be treated like booze.
[quote]So “Wife has PMS” is probably not the way to go here. You have to say “Wife’s PMS is causing headache or anxiety.” LOL! I don’t know a lot about it, but it seems like someone needs to mellow out. I think you’re telling me it should be the person who actually has PMS? I don’t know, but it seems like “pot brownies a few days per month” is better than “getting a divorce” on the morality scale.
[/quote]
Eh, I’d have to be inappropriate to really put across the gist of what I mean. But outside of that, being stoned doesn’t really soften the blow of other people being irksome, but rather you kind of just blow it off and forget about it. Still bothers you.
I can’t smoke anymore. Makes me paranoid and gives me anxiety.
[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
Yep.
I often find myself in the strange position of supporting some things that I personally don’t participate in or even that sometimes go against my own moral compass for the sake of individual freedom, and also for pragmatic reasons. [/quote]
It’s frustrating, yet at the same time, liberating and generally more healthy. I haven’t lost my convictions, and when in the mood I’ll speak my mind, etc, but I just dont’ have the will to seek out political or social fights anymore. (Shit I don’t have the will to fight with my family, including my toddler who is just like dad, with enough mom mixed in that I have full on arguments about appropriate behavior at 630am…)
It does at times feel like I’ve “given up the fight for what is right, and just in the world, and my complacency is only adding to the destruction”. But then I think back to the early point in my life where I was a collectivist’s wet dream and thought the world was ending because 43 was in office and people were actually dumb enough to vote republican…
I fade back and forth between “we’re doomed” and “don’t like macro economic and political issues steer your life”. Maybe I’m still part of the problem.
I stopped smoking years ago, but weed isn’t going to help him during PMS at all, lol. [/quote]
Thinking about this -
We have legal medical marijuana here in CA, which effectively means we have legal recreational use because anyone can get a med card for common issues like headaches or anxiety. You have to go the the trouble of getting a prescription instead of just going to the store like in Colorado, but it’s not hard.
I was surprised that acceptance of marijuana use wasn’t on the poll. Do you think it wouldn’t be considered “shifting left?” They listed some issues related to medical technology, but not medicinal marijuana use.
So “Wife has PMS” is probably not the way to go here. You have to say “Wife’s PMS is causing headache or anxiety.” LOL! I don’t know a lot about it, but it seems like someone needs to mellow out. I think you’re telling me it should be the person who actually has PMS? I don’t know, but it seems like “pot brownies a few days per month” is better than “getting a divorce” on the morality scale.
[/quote]
I think pot has bipartisan support. Most of the poll seems to do with sex.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
Do you think it wouldn’t be considered “shifting left?” They listed some issues related to medical technology, but not medicinal marijuana use. [/quote]
I don’t know. In contemporary American politics dating back to say 1950 or so, yes it is a left-esk swing. I happen to agree with the left on it, and weed should be treated like booze.
[quote]So “Wife has PMS” is probably not the way to go here. You have to say “Wife’s PMS is causing headache or anxiety.” LOL! I don’t know a lot about it, but it seems like someone needs to mellow out. I think you’re telling me it should be the person who actually has PMS? I don’t know, but it seems like “pot brownies a few days per month” is better than “getting a divorce” on the morality scale.
[/quote]
Eh, I’d have to be inappropriate to really put across the gist of what I mean. But outside of that, being stoned doesn’t really soften the blow of other people being irksome, but rather you kind of just blow it off and forget about it. Still bothers you.
I can’t smoke anymore. Makes me paranoid and gives me anxiety.
[/quote]
Yeah, I see attitudes towards weed as one of the big cultural shifts right now. Where we are, the high school and college kids often see it as less bad for you/ less bad for society than alcohol. Not to debate the merits of pot, but they might be right. It was certainly NOT as acceptable as alcohol when I was that age. And my parents, who are too old to be hippies, see it in a much darker light than alcohol.
BTW, I’m mostly joking about PMS and pot brownies. Mostly. Certainly joking about divorce. My sense of humor doesn’t always translate well so now I have to put smileys and winkies.
I once got burned for saying the secret to a successful marriage was lots of constructive criticism. I didn’t think that required a smiley face. My bad.
[quote]pat wrote:
I think pot has bipartisan support. Most of the poll seems to do with sex. [/quote]
Yes. That’s why everyone wants to talk about Bruce Jenner instead of the Iranian nuclear situation. We Americans are stupid like that.