Werdum should just move to 185lbs and fight Thales Leites, it will be the epic buttscoot battle of awesomeness.
Shame on you Werdum.
As much as I love bjj and appreciate the hard work and training it takes to master, Werdum really annoyed me with his flopping and acting like Vladdi Divatz. If he wants to fight in mma he really needs to forcefully take his opponent down, or fight standing. If his only hope of winning is to trick his opponent with acting, maybe he should stick with abu dhabi tournaments. IMO, Werdum must have been penalized for the pathetic flopping and rightfully so.
That being said, it looked to me like Overeem needs to work on his condtioning. Maybe the reason we don’t see many successful fighters with the bodies of body builders is because the muscles need more oxygen. Those 5 minute rounds are a bitch.
Heun was a fucking warrior, he fought with a broken arm, just like Jacare did on the final of the mundial.
[quote]Quimby wrote:
As much as I love bjj and appreciate the hard work and training it takes to master, Werdum really annoyed me with his flopping and acting like Vladdi Divatz. If he wants to fight in mma he really needs to forcefully take his opponent down, or fight standing. If his only hope of winning is to trick his opponent with acting, maybe he should stick with abu dhabi tournaments. IMO, Werdum must have been penalized for the pathetic flopping and rightfully so.
That being said, it looked to me like Overeem needs to work on his condtioning. Maybe the reason we don’t see many successful fighters with the bodies of body builders is because the muscles need more oxygen. Those 5 minute rounds are a bitch.[/quote]
Vlade Divac you mean? lol
[quote]Dre Cappa wrote:
[quote]Quimby wrote:
As much as I love bjj and appreciate the hard work and training it takes to master, Werdum really annoyed me with his flopping and acting like Vladdi Divatz. If he wants to fight in mma he really needs to forcefully take his opponent down, or fight standing. If his only hope of winning is to trick his opponent with acting, maybe he should stick with abu dhabi tournaments. IMO, Werdum must have been penalized for the pathetic flopping and rightfully so.
That being said, it looked to me like Overeem needs to work on his condtioning. Maybe the reason we don’t see many successful fighters with the bodies of body builders is because the muscles need more oxygen. Those 5 minute rounds are a bitch.[/quote]
Vlade Divac you mean? lol[/quote]
Yes, lol.
who? he buttflopped on basket games?
btw, i laughed thorough the whole video
I have to admit, this fight was a bit surprising till I talked to a few of my mma friends. first, I was very surprised that the current K1 champ, was getting hit by Werdum so often. He looked nothing like the guy who destroyed all the guys in K1. If you put Werdum in against the guys that Overream beat in K1, Like Peter Aerts, Gogan saki or sprong, weredum would get killed within 2 minutes. so why did it seem that Overream was getting out struck by a mediocre stand up fighter like Werdum.
Well, first, his stance was completely different than normal. his shoulders were squared off facing Werdum. He did this in order to stuff his take down attempts. So why didn’t overream throw much, where were his knees, legs kicks and his punches. Overream didn’t want to open himself up, the moment you throw a kick or knee, it opens you up for a takedown, and since overream lost that way last time, he wanted to avoid it at all costs. The strikes that Werdum did land on overream weren’t at all powerful to say the least. and the few times that overream did land, like a knee, that knocked werdum down, and a left hook that also sent werdum into his guard.
those who say Overream was gassed, well, ya, he was. But did you check out how tired Werdum was?? He was more gassed than overream.
I guarantee you, when he fights Silva, he won’t be as concerned with the takedown, cause Silva, while he is a good jui jitsu guy, hes not as fast, and he certainly won’t be able to continually attempt takedowns like werdum did. Not at 280lbs he won’t be. So overream will let loose alot more with his strikes. I can see this being a stoppage or a decision for Oveream, depending on how much overream goes for the kill.
[quote]Quimby wrote:
[quote]Dre Cappa wrote:
[quote]Quimby wrote:
As much as I love bjj and appreciate the hard work and training it takes to master, Werdum really annoyed me with his flopping and acting like Vladdi Divatz. If he wants to fight in mma he really needs to forcefully take his opponent down, or fight standing. If his only hope of winning is to trick his opponent with acting, maybe he should stick with abu dhabi tournaments. IMO, Werdum must have been penalized for the pathetic flopping and rightfully so.
That being said, it looked to me like Overeem needs to work on his condtioning. Maybe the reason we don’t see many successful fighters with the bodies of body builders is because the muscles need more oxygen. Those 5 minute rounds are a bitch.[/quote]
Vlade Divac you mean? lol[/quote]
Yes, lol.
[/quote]
he fought 3 guys in the same night to win the K1 grand prix. he was tired, cause, though it was a sucky fight, it was a grueling one. and Werdum was also gassed. Id say he was more gassed than overream was.
Well regarding why he was outstruck by werdum but not K1 elite, three factors come to mind:
A) Bad performance
I don’t care how great a fighter they are, everyone has bad nights. Only human after all.
B) Style
Ubereem’s striking style relies on setting up power shots and wearing your opponent down. He doesn’t throw a lot of combos. It’s pretty easy to outstrike him even if the end result is you getting KO’d/
C) Just a bad matchup
It seems to me that even if someone is an extremely proficient striker, you will just on occasion meet up with someone who gives you trouble even when they, from an objective standpoint, shouldn’t. I’ve encountered this in boxing myself, where I’ve gone up against guys who I knew objectively I was much better from the standpoint of technique and ring smarts, and even if I won they gave me the shits.
[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
Well regarding why he was outstruck by werdum but not K1 elite, three factors come to mind:
A) Bad performance
I don’t care how great a fighter they are, everyone has bad nights. Only human after all.
B) Style
Ubereem’s striking style relies on setting up power shots and wearing your opponent down. He doesn’t throw a lot of combos. It’s pretty easy to outstrike him even if the end result is you getting KO’d/
C) Just a bad matchup
It seems to me that even if someone is an extremely proficient striker, you will just on occasion meet up with someone who gives you trouble even when they, from an objective standpoint, shouldn’t. I’ve encountered this in boxing myself, where I’ve gone up against guys who I knew objectively I was much better from the standpoint of technique and ring smarts, and even if I won they gave me the shits.[/quote]
If you watched his K1 fights, he does throw a ton more strikes than he did against Werdum. It wasn’t just a bad night. In K1 he a rather methodical striker, he takes his time, but, in K1, there are only 3 rounds, so you can’t be to methodical and only 1 guy went the distance with Overream in all his K1 matches. He normally kills guys with his knees and leg kicks and his punches have developed quite a bit of power. But knowing Werdum game plan was to get overream down and submit him, Overream was very aware of this. thats the biggest reason we didn’t see the numerous knees and leg kicks he normally does. that would open himself up to much for the takedown. It was a smart fight, but rather boring.
Do you even bother to post sober?
Overeem may have had a high strike output.
Ubereem in K1 is the epitome of a cautious slugger.
Against the australian dude he did like what, 10,12 Strikes? And practically everyone hurt bad.
A buttscootin BJJ ace IS a bad badmatchup.
Especially if he’s doing it ALL THE TIME.
Overeem couldn’t find the bloody rythm.
And the whole up, down, clash, up, down, clash where every contact was high stakes (it was clear that Overeem would try to KO while Werdum was trying to take the fight down like some desperate crack whore, eager to spread the legs) was wearing BOTH of them down, staminawise.
BTW, that would wear down almost any heavyweight.
Fans are ridiculous with their assumption of how stellar a 120 KG monsterathlete’s cardio should be.
Nontheless, the whole tourney is interesting either way, because at least 50% of the heavy-top ten is assembled there.
The next fight, Overeem vs Bigfoot is a fantastic matchup.
Bigfoot, a top5 for sure imo, is great all around and has a big fighter’s heart in his ridiculous giant body.
Will Bigfoot be able to take him down? Will he tire him out? Will his giant chin be able to eat Overeem’s power shots? Who is better in the clinch?
In a broader scope, Overeem is a very interesting style vs style matchup against the better UFC heavies.
He’ll be probably more comfortable against Velasquez (at least for one round) then against DosSantos with his quick long range strikes. Caine just might eat a big right as he lunges forward, with little defense.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Do you even bother to post sober?
Overeem may have had a high strike output.
Ubereem in K1 is the epitome of a cautious slugger.
Against the australian dude he did like what, 10,12 Strikes? And practically everyone hurt bad.
A buttscootin BJJ ace IS a bad badmatchup.
Especially if he’s doing it ALL THE TIME.
Overeem couldn’t find the bloody rythm.
And the whole up, down, clash, up, down, clash where every contact was high stakes (it was clear that Overeem would try to KO while Werdum was trying to take the fight down like some desperate crack whore, eager to spread the legs) was wearing BOTH of them down, staminawise.
BTW, that would wear down almost any heavyweight.
Fans are ridiculous with their assumption of how stellar a 120 KG monsterathlete’s cardio should be.
Nontheless, the whole tourney is interesting either way, because at least 50% of the heavy-top ten is assembled there.
The next fight, Overeem vs Bigfoot is a fantastic matchup.
Bigfoot, a top5 for sure imo, is great all around and has a big fighter’s heart in his ridiculous giant body.
Will Bigfoot be able to take him down? Will he tire him out? Will his giant chin be able to eat Overeem’s power shots? Who is better in the clinch?
In a broader scope, Overeem is a very interesting style vs style matchup against the better UFC heavies.
He’ll be probably more comfortable against Velasquez (at least for one round) then against DosSantos with his quick long range strikes. Caine just might eat a big right as he lunges forward, with little defense.
[/quote]
I could have sworn i said he was a methodical fighter. But i also said, while methodical, he definately goes for the kill. And you can’t be to methodical, given its only 3 rounds.
And please, I have forgotten more about mma and/or K1 than you could ever know. You are just repeating everything im saying. Of course Werdums style played havoc with Overreams style. thats what i said. But the fact is, only against Sprong, did he go the distance. all his other 2011 fights, he stopped his opponent.
Personally I think he’d fair better against Dos Santos than Velasquez. Sure, Dos Santos has fast hands for a heavy and good reach, but he isn’t a better striker than the guys that Overeem faced in K-1. And fighting someone who is mostly a striker would play more to his strengths.
Velasquez on the other hand has both fast hands/KO power and very good wrestling. Overeem would probably be just as cautious (if not more so) of the takedown against him and not throw many (if any) kicks or knees much like the Werdum fight. The difference though is that Velasquez most likely could actually take him down and quite possibly keep him there for a while and deal some damage.
So, stylistically I think he matches up better with Junior than Cain.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Personally I think he’d fair better against Dos Santos than Velasquez. Sure, Dos Santos has fast hands for a heavy and good reach, but he isn’t a better striker than the guys that Overeem faced in K-1. And fighting someone who is mostly a striker would play more to his strengths.
Velasquez on the other hand has both fast hands/KO power and very good wrestling. Overeem would probably be just as cautious (if not more so) of the takedown against him and not throw many (if any) kicks or knees much like the Werdum fight. The difference though is that Velasquez most likely could actually take him down and quite possibly keep him there for a while and deal some damage.
So, stylistically I think he matches up better with Junior than Cain.[/quote]
True, Cain does pose a threat of taking Overream down but not much of a threat of submitting him. I don’t think Overream would be as cautious with Cain.
I still cant get with the butt scoot
makes me wish for old pride rules.
ok that getting out of the way- I did get to see the bulk of these guys up
close in January and February while shooting a promo
Id post the link to that thread but, what is google for then.
Silva and Overeem are about the same Size,
but Silva is heavier
I Like Overeem over Silva for a few reasons.
Overeem is actually an ok counter striker
and Silva Likes to move forward, he only has one direction.
Silva is pretty aggressive in the clinch too- but I think Overeems Plum & knees are better.
Barnett and Kharitonov makes a bit more of an interesting matchup-
Sergei is the better striker and has Real KO power
Barnett clearly the better strategist, grappling is of course on Barnetts side.
I do know Sergei ahs been work on his greco allot with the coach he has from Finland.
I will agree with Sento on the Reem’s match ups with Dos Santos
Cains pace is too crazy to keep up with.
[quote]kmcnyc wrote:
I still cant get with the butt scoot
makes me wish for old pride rules.
ok that getting out of the way- I did get to see the bulk of these guys up
close in January and February while shooting a promo
Id post the link to that thread but, what is google for then.
Silva and Overeem are about the same Size,
but Silva is heavier
I Like Overeem over Silva for a few reasons.
Overeem is actually an ok counter striker
and Silva Likes to move forward, he only has one direction.
Silva is pretty aggressive in the clinch too- but I think Overeems Plum & knees are better.
Barnett and Kharitonov makes a bit more of an interesting matchup-
Sergei is the better striker and has Real KO power
Barnett clearly the better strategist, grappling is of course on Barnetts side.
I do know Sergei ahs been work on his greco allot with the coach he has from Finland.
I will agree with Sento on the Reem’s match ups with Dos Santos
Cains pace is too crazy to keep up with.
[/quote]
Barnett is going walk through Kharitonov. Check out Kharitonov’s fight against Jeff Monson. monson submitted him in the first round. Barnett is alot bigger than monson is. and a far better striker. but this fight is going to the ground fast. and will be over in round 2. just like against Rogers.
[quote]roguevampire wrote:
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Personally I think he’d fair better against Dos Santos than Velasquez. Sure, Dos Santos has fast hands for a heavy and good reach, but he isn’t a better striker than the guys that Overeem faced in K-1. And fighting someone who is mostly a striker would play more to his strengths.
Velasquez on the other hand has both fast hands/KO power and very good wrestling. Overeem would probably be just as cautious (if not more so) of the takedown against him and not throw many (if any) kicks or knees much like the Werdum fight. The difference though is that Velasquez most likely could actually take him down and quite possibly keep him there for a while and deal some damage.
So, stylistically I think he matches up better with Junior than Cain.[/quote]
True, Cain does pose a threat of taking Overream down but not much of a threat of submitting him. I don’t think Overream would be as cautious with Cain. [/quote]
True, he probably isn’t as likely to submit him, but just getting controlled on the ground while withstanding some ground and pound (especially with Cain’s conditioning and pace) could just as easily lose the fight for Reem. I think he’d be just as cautious, and even then quite probably less successful at staying on his feet.
Junior might also be able to take him down, but I don’t think he’d have as much success keeping him there if he did. And I think that Junior would be more inclined to play to Alistair’s strength (striking) than Cain.
I’m really rooting for Overeem, Pesao just doesn’t strike for me, he is Brazilian but he talks lot of shit.
@sentoguy and KMCNYC
I don’t mean to imply that I wouldn’t bet my money on Cain,
but:
I see far, far bigger chances for a spectacular first round KO by Alistair O. when he faces the Mexican-Amercian, not Dos Santos.
They way I see it, Dos Santos and Overeem will have a rather cautious first round. Santos trying with straights and backing away, while the Dutch converges steadily, with a slow rythm.
Cain V. will just march fearlessly ahead. He will eventually take O. down and secure dominant position & punish, securing win somewhere in the late 2nd round through a GnP TKO.
Still, I see a big chance for Overeem to score a devastating blow to the Velasquez’ chin.
He’s so open in each fight there’s a veritable window of opportunity for Overeem, as long as he won’t lose his rythm early on.
All in all I say Overeem has about a ~30% chance just because of that. That’s a very decent chance in my book and better then most guys could hope to attain.
Against DosSantos, he’s better off and should probably win for the aforementioned reasons.
But it will involve more bullying and softening Dos Santos up with bodyblows, knees and shoving.
[quote]roguevampire wrote:
And please, I have forgotten more about mma and/or K1 than you could ever know. You are just repeating everything im saying. Of course Werdums style played havoc with Overreams style. thats what i said. But the fact is, only against Sprong, did he go the distance. all his other 2011 fights, he stopped his opponent. [/quote]
I’m certain you have attained the silver belt in K1 or something similar.
And I don’t mind the forgetting part, after centuries of fencing and dueling, your vampire lordship can misremember mundane things like fighting, or typing.